Entertainment Weekly Predicts... - EW Looks at the Hopefuls

[atomicage]

hmmmm. alright. i just meant relatively speaking BABEL was experimental (poor choice of a word, i admit). i mean compard to freakin' SEABISCUIT it sure seemed experimental!

however, i will admit defeat. no experimental film has ever been nominated for best picture.

therefore, THERE WILL BE BLOOD and NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN will not be nominated for best picture because they are just too out there according to oscarguy and rain bard.
i just thought BABEL's nomination meant the academy was more open to different types of filmmaking styles, but i concede BABEL was like FORREST GUMP compared to the two aforementioned films (according to what i am being told).

first i start a long argument and discussion by misusing the word auteur, and now i get in trouble for misusing the word experimental. i can admit when i am wrong, though.

With all due respect there, Rolo, I feel you've gone from one end of the spectrum to the complete opposite. Writing off There Will Be Blood and No Country For Old Men because they're just "too out there" is ridiculous, whether or not you are just referring to other users' posts.

Also, when I think of "experimental films", I don't think of, breaking every rule in the book. No, instead, I do think of films like Citizen Kane (voiceover and film-within-a-film) and Moulin Rouge (choppy editing that adds to the fantastical pacing)... movies that push the envelope here-or-there, slowly but surely.

I agree with FilmFan, that Babel should not be used as a precedent for the aforementioned possibilities this year.

I believe there are a lot of hasty generalizations being drawn. From what I'm seeing, both films being discussed (Blood and Country) look awesome, and I personally can't wait to see them. As far as solidified predictions for them go, that might take some waiting.

[rain Bard]

rain Bard, which director would make be apt comparison for "There Will Be Blood"? Anderson's previous films were termed Altmanesque. I'm guessing that doesn't hold water with this film. Griffith, maybe?

And how about those "Citizen Kane" comparisons (which I've heard lots about from the fanboys, but haven't actually read one yet)?

Good luck with your festival! I've been Netflixing non-slaptstick comedy silent films for the past several weeks in order to fill this shameful gap in my viewing experience. Hopefully by the end of the year, I'll have seen enough to make an informed top ten list.

Honestly, I never thought of Altman even once while watching the film, until seeing PTA's dedication to him in the end credits, at which point MCCABE AND MRS. MILLER flitted into my mind. Upon reflection, THERE WILL BE BLOOD does share with Anderson's other films an exploration of the Altmanesque theme of young mens' dissatisfaction and disgust with the legacies our fathers and forefathers have left us. But Altman and Anderson certainly haven't cornered the market on this theme (if perhaps it would sometime be worth delving into whether they do it in a particular way, differently from other filmmakers.) Come to think of it, CITIZEN KANE at least flirts with this theme. But I don't really see the connection there either. Both THERE WILL BE BLOOD and CITIZEN KANE follow self-made men during about the same period of American history, but that's the most substantial connection I can come up with. There may be a few specific moments toward the end of Anderson's film that are reminding a few people of Welles's, but the only way I can imagine people thinking THERE WILL BE BLOOD is exuberantly opening a new toolbox of cinema in the way that KANE did, is if they held a very PTA-centric concept of cinema. This is a pretty bold, new direction for PTA. But for cinema as a whole? Not really, I don't think. In terms of tone and scope of this film, the filmmaker whose footsteps Anderson seems to be most closely following in, from my perspective anyway, is not Altman, nor Welles, nor Griffith, but Kubrick, who never even made a Western...

And thanks for your kind wishes on the Silent Film Festival; in turn let me hope you break a leg as Mushnik! My role in this winter edition of the festival is small, but I'm very excited about it nonetheless (in addition to INTOLERANCE, there will be screenings of FLESH AND THE DEVIL and a set of Vitaphone shorts with veyr little crossover with the set released as extras on the new DVD of THE JAZZ SINGER.) For the main festival in July, I researched and wrote a 1200-word program essay on one of the films shown, William de Mille's MISS LULU BETT. It's on DVD with a terrific score from the Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra, and I recommend it highly for those looking for a superior, if not-quite-canonized title from the era. It's something of a precursor to the post-war kitchen-sink dramas, and features a tremendous performance from the all-but-forgotten Lois Wilson.

[Sonic Youth]

I've seen THERE WILL BE BLOOD. I live in San Francisco, where Paul Thomas Anderson handpicked the Castro Theatre for the film's second-ever open-to-the-public screening this past Monday.

Any of BABEL's relatively unorthodox stylistic flourishes were tethered to a film with a heavy-handed message about global connections and disconnections in the modern world. It was absolutely stuffed with the "hang on, because this is gonna be good for your soul" vibe.

THERE WILL BE BLOOD has a very different vibe. Much more of an expression of a director's aesthetic vision than socio-political vision. Upton Sinclair's muckraking approach is (from what I understand; I haven't read Oil myself) toned down. Sure, the film can serve as a warning about the unholy alliance between religion and capitalism, but the theme is not enveloped in an easy-to-swallow capsule form and many viewers will undoubtedly take away something other than what I got out of the film thematically.

rain Bard, which director would make be apt comparison for "There Will Be Blood"? Anderson's previous films were termed Altmanesque. I'm guessing that doesn't hold water with this film. Griffith, maybe?

And how about those "Citizen Kane" comparisons (which I've heard lots about from the fanboys, but haven't actually read one yet)?

Good luck with your festival! I've been Netflixing non-slaptstick comedy silent films for the past several weeks in order to fill this shameful gap in my viewing experience. Hopefully by the end of the year, I'll have seen enough to make an informed top ten list.

[Precious Doll]

If you want experimental I suggest you seek out the films of Jon Jost, Jean-Marie Straub, Robert Kramer & Alain Robbe-Grillet for starters.

[FilmFan720]

I think there is a strong chance of a Best Picture nomination for both/either There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men...I just don't think that Babel is the right precident for them. I like the citation of The Thin Red Line for There Will Be Blood, and even recent films like Letters from Iwo Jima and The Pianist, which by no means were innovative films but which told "epic" stories in a less conventional way, stressing mood and emotion over plot and over-characterization. For No Country for Old Men, there has been a nominating faction over the last decade or so that has embraced darker, genre-like pictures that seem to subvert their genre rules...Fargo, L.A. Confidential, Mystic River or The Sixth Sense are examples off the top of my head.

[rolotomasi99]

hmmmm. alright. i just meant relatively speaking BABEL was experimental (poor choice of a word, i admit). i mean compard to freakin' SEABISCUIT it sure seemed experimental!

however, i will admit defeat. no experimental film has ever been nominated for best picture.

therefore, THERE WILL BE BLOOD and NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN will not be nominated for best picture because they are just too out there according to oscarguy and rain bard.
i just thought BABEL's nomination meant the academy was more open to different types of filmmaking styles, but i concede BABEL was like FORREST GUMP compared to the two aforementioned films (according to what i am being told).

first i start a long argument and discussion by misusing the word auteur, and now i get in trouble for misusing the word experimental. i can admit when i am wrong, though.

[The Original BJ]

Honestly, I don't think ANY truly "experimental" films have EVER been nominated for best picture, including any of the ones listed below. While those films may have "experimented" with cinematic conventions and norms, not a one of them disregards narrative and character so completely as to exist outside at least my definition of mainstream cinema. I'm not saying this is bad -- I like the films rolo listed, most of them a lot -- but most films I would consider experimental barely even make it into theaters, much less come under CONSIDERATION for Oscar nominations.

[FilmFan720]

Babel is far from being an eclectic, or "experimental," Best Picture nominee. It is a plot driven, non-linear story much like hundreds of other films before it. The "third world filmmaking" has become common ground of the last few years...there is nothing different here than Amores Perros, The Constant Gardener, Y Tu Mama Tambien, The Last King of Scotland, 21 Grams or any number of other recent Oscar nominees and winners.

No true "experimental" film has ever been nominated for Best Picture, and I don't think have ever really been represented at the Oscars. There is no Oscar-Winner Maya Daren or Stan Brakhage. Even when experimental filmmakers have recieved nominations, like David Lynch, they have done so for more mainstream work. Just the nature of experimental film itself succeeding at the Oscars is counterintuitive; experimental film goes against the mainstream though, and the Oscars represent mainstream cinema.

As for challenging films nominated for Best Picture, I think you have do define challenging. Midnight Cowboy is surely a challenging picture thematically and contains challenging subject-matter, but it is also a straight-forward narrative which uses typical Hollywood storytelling. Moulin Rouge may have challenging visuals, but it's a bland story we have seen on screen a million times. The Thin Red Line is challenging in a narrative way, and many (not me) would argue, a challenge to sit through without falling asleep, but its subject matter and themes do not seem extreme. Some might say giving the Oscar to Silence of the Lambs (a horror film) is challenging.

Probably the most challenging films seen in the Best Picture line-ups were the 60s and 70s, when that dichotomous battle between the new and old guards was in full fashion. The Graduate and Bonnie and Clyde were surely challenging to their audiences, both in narrative structures and taboo subject matter. Midnight Cowboy dealt with some strong subject matter, and both it and A Clockwork Orange were rated X of course. Nashville is pretty challenging to the average filmgoer, and is probably the most plotless Best Picture nominee ever (which is a good thing).

Maybe Luis Bunuel is the closest we can get to an experimental Oscar nominee? His nomination for Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie is damn experimental, by Oscar standards.

[Zahveed]

so, what is the most bizarre (for lack of a better word) movie nominated for best pic in your opinion?

some other films that were out there in their style (though this does not equal good):
MOULIN ROUGE
THE THIN RED LINE
PULP FICTION
THE PIANO
JFK
APOCALYPSE NOW
TAXI DRIVER
CRIES AND WHISPERS
A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
MIDNIGHT COWBOY
Z
CITIZEN KANE

I'd say it's a tie between A Clockwork Orange and Moulin Rouge for strangeness. Citizen Kane is the most experimental of the bunch though IMO.

[OscarGuy]

Of the films you listed and the ones I've seen, Moulin Rouge and A Clockwork Orange are probably the most "experimental" by your definition.

Moulin Rouge took the standard musical formula and turned it on its ear. It was an eclectic blend of 80s pop culture, period style and modernist storytelling. While still pretty typical for progression of story, it was a lot more "experimental" than Babel.

A Clockwork Orange would have to be the most bizarre film ever nominated best picture, though. I mean putting a popular song like Singing in the Rain to a rape is just one of the many "experimental" touches the film put forward. Even Moulin Rouge seems tame comparatively.

And I really don't see Babel as being more than conventional when paired against most of the films in your list.

Citizen Kane has become a standard in itself. Pulp Fiction has similarly earned that distinction. But 26 years later, A Clockwork Orange is still strange and twisted, not successfully duplicated.

[Penelope]

You want to see somthing similarly experimental, rent ''Intolerance''. And it was made in the 10s.

And it's a vastly superior film.

The narrative structure in Babel may be unusual compared to past Best Picture nominees, but it's now become a common cinematic device; thematically and plotwise, Babel is incredibly conventional, with similarities to such Best Picture Winners/Nominees as Grand Hotel, The Best Years of Our Lives, Ship of Fools, Airport, Nashville, etc.

[rolotomasi99]

I just can't share your opinion on this one.

experimental, surreal, avant garde, out there, alternative, arty, etc.

these are all words i would use to (poorly) describe the very strangeness of BABEL. my opinion was that this film is more bizarre (cinematically speaking) than anything nominated for best picture before.

you say you do not share that opinion. so, what is the most bizarre (for lack of a better word) movie nominated for best pic in your opinion?

some other films that were out there in their style (though this does not equal good):
MOULIN ROUGE
THE THIN RED LINE
PULP FICTION
THE PIANO
JFK
APOCALYPSE NOW
TAXI DRIVER
CRIES AND WHISPERS
A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
MIDNIGHT COWBOY
Z
CITIZEN KANE

maybe there are some films i am missing, but those are the only ones i know of which were nominated for best pic despite being very unconventional in their storytelling style. there are of course other films which were different at the time, but seem straightforward now (BONNIE AND CLYDE, THE GRADUATE, etc). if 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY had been nominated for bp, i would say that was the most out there nominee...but it was too strange for the academy to put in the top five.

i am not trying to argue with you oscarguy, but if you found BABEL to be one of the more tame best pic nominees i was just curious what you thought was the most daring (particularly recently).

[rain Bard]

And, coincidentally, INTOLERANCE will also be playing the Castro Theatre soon. On December 1st, the Photoplay print backed by Dennis James at the organ. I can think of no better way to see this film in this century. (admittedly I'm probably biased, being a volunteer for the SF Silent Film Festival which is bringing the film). Couldn't resist the opportunity to plug...

[Sonic Youth]

You want to see somthing similarly experimental, rent ''Intolerance''. And it was made in the 10s.

[rain Bard]

I've seen THERE WILL BE BLOOD. I live in San Francisco, where Paul Thomas Anderson handpicked the Castro Theatre for the film's second-ever open-to-the-public screening this past Monday.

Any of BABEL's relatively unorthodox stylistic flourishes were tethered to a film with a heavy-handed message about global connections and disconnections in the modern world. It was absolutely stuffed with the "hang on, because this is gonna be good for your soul" vibe.

THERE WILL BE BLOOD has a very different vibe. Much more of an expression of a director's aesthetic vision than socio-political vision. Upton Sinclair's muckraking approach is (from what I understand; I haven't read Oil myself) toned down. Sure, the film can serve as a warning about the unholy alliance between religion and capitalism, but the theme is not enveloped in an easy-to-swallow capsule form and many viewers will undoubtedly take away something other than what I got out of the film thematically.