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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:34 am
by Okri
Ignoring the fanciful history (and I'd argue that people here would be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, given the recent discussion of "is he gay or not"), I'm more curious about why you think a white actor shouldn't play someone of mixed race, whereas it'd be okay for a black actor to do so. Seems like an odd double standard.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:34 am
by Zahveed
I have heard he was bisexual too. History channel showed a few notes he wrote to someone in which he confessed his love for him. I don't know how much truth there is to it though because I'm not knowledgeable on the time's typical letter-writing style. They weren't straight out "I want you in the worst way" kind of lines, but more "I want to be closer to you". This could be why Lincoln was so depressed all the time. Perhaps he wanted a different kind of romance?
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:20 am
by OscarGuy
Rolo, I think part of the problem is that you've declared him to be part black without anything in the way of proof. It's purely conjecture. No, we can't say for 100% that X or Y wasn't half-black or gay or something else, but usually, there is something somewhere that points in that direction. How many closeted directors, actors and others in Hollywood weren't suspected to be gay but confirmation didn't come until later when documentation or testimony came forward to the contrary.
In this situation, all anyone is asking you to do is provide some source for your suggestion. No one here would mind, but unless you have something that confirms your revelation, then it is nothing more than suspicion or suggestion and really shouldn't be spouted as fact. So, really, the burden of proof lies on you to back up your statement, not with us to disprove your proclamation.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:18 pm
by Zahveed
rolotomasi99 wrote:why is that so shocking to people?
Because something like that would have been well spread throughout the country if there was even speculation he was black. In a predominately racist country where even northern states were practically persuaded to emancipate their slaves, even a half or a fourth black president wouldn't have been elected. The only black people that were respected in those times were mostly black slave owners. John Wilkes Booth probably would have mentioned it in his diary he wrote after he assassinated Lincoln. You would think his sons would of had some African traits in their facial features, but they don't. The image you posted wasn't even 100% real, it was one of his black and white pictures with digital coloring.
This all being said, I wouldn't mind if he was black. It would have been a little ironic though.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:03 pm
by rolotomasi99
Zahveed wrote:Another photo looking pretty European.
he looks about as european as these people who also happen to have african blood in them:
mariah carey
http://flickr.com/photos/citiboiishere/2494601491/
rihanna
http://flickr.com/photos/photowire/2623469769/
jennifer beals
http://flickr.com/photos/dbimac/517394571/
condoleezza rice
http://flickr.com/photos/statephotos/2379540749/
colin powell
http://flickr.com/photos/7730691@N03/454610084/
another picture of powell looking as european as someone who is 100% european!
http://flickr.com/photos/usatoday/3212286631/
zahveed, you think lincoln looks black because he is tan? who are you, berlusconi? lincoln had black blood in him. why is that so shocking to people?
Edited By rolotomasi99 on 1234580781
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:52 pm
by Zahveed
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:50 pm
by Zahveed
As I said before, Abraham Lincoln was an outdoor man. The sun tans the skin and roughens the hair.
Because young Lincoln totally looked black right? http://www.conservapedia.com/images....oln.jpg
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:43 pm
by rolotomasi99
MovieWes wrote:rolotomasi99 wrote:
the biggest outrage though is reconciling the fact that lincoln was mixed-race -- which is why it drives me nuts when people say obama is our first black president...hello people, check your history. how can such a white man like neeson play a black man. are they going to do black-face make up like robert downey, jr.? very strange.
Umm.. what are you talking about? Abraham Lincoln wasn't black. His father was Thomas Lincoln and his mother was Nancy Hanks, neither of which were black.
I think you need to read some history books.
would these be the same history books which try to tell us alexander the great, leonardo da vinci, and susan b anthony among others are heterosexual? i love how you challenge me to prove he was part black since you assume he must be white, and anything to the contrary is insane. the same with glbt people in history, they are straight until proven otherwise.
there have been 5 black presidents in our country's history. lincoln was just the darkest.
http://www.computerhealth.org/ebook/5blkpres.htm
it seems pretty obvious to me lincoln had some mixed heritage. look at any picture of him and you will see he is not 100% european. the paintings of him lighten him up, but photos show he could not be only of european heritage.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/torrez/93279075/
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:35 pm
by Zahveed
Lincoln might have been tall and sickly looking in the face, but no way was he thin as a pencil. Besides the civil war, his assassination, and his crazy wife, Lincoln was known for being a built wrestler. Not like the kind you see in the WWE. If you work your whole life splitting logs and doing other manual labor, you're going to develop some lean muscle.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:35 pm
by MovieWes
Actually, if you want to get technical, Ford wasn't a luxury sedan, so Lincoln is the one and only. Ford is the lowest tier in the Ford Motor Company's totem pole -- Lincoln is the luxury car, Mercury is one step down, and Ford is the lowest.
I know this because I work at a Lincoln-Mercury dealership and deal with this on a daily basis. :p
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:30 pm
by Sonic Youth
I'm outraged that the casting of Neeson in no way recognizes the historically unassailable fact that Lincoln was our first luxury sedan president. (Ford was our second.) I mean, WTF? It's not like there are no great actors with power steering and a V8 engine.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:50 pm
by MovieWes
rolotomasi99 wrote:last i heard they had cast liam neeson as lincoln, which just seems wrong to me. the height is similar, but lincoln was such a thin and sickly guy while neeson has always been built like a barn. adrian brody would match physically, but the nose would be too distracting.
the biggest outrage though is reconciling the fact that lincoln was mixed-race -- which is why it drives me nuts when people say obama is our first black president...hello people, check your history. how can such a white man like neeson play a black man. are they going to do black-face make up like robert downey, jr.? very strange.
Umm.. what are you talking about? Abraham Lincoln wasn't black. His father was Thomas Lincoln and his mother was Nancy Hanks, neither of which were black.
I think you need to read some history books.
EDIT: I've tried to look up Lincoln's lineage on Google and can't find even a single blurb about him having any black ancestors at all. Where in the world did you hear this, because it seems to me that if there was even a single shred of evidence, somebody somewhere would have written about it.
Edited By MovieWes on 1234559233
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:17 pm
by rain Bard
I dressed as Lincoln to go to work yesterday. It was fun. It brought out a lot of interesting comments. Some people wanted to tell me he was an octaroon, others that he was a racist. Most people just enjoyed it. I even got to pose for a photo with the head of the library in his posh office, which was not something I expected to have happen.
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:00 pm
by flipp525
rolotomasi99 wrote:last i heard they had cast liam neeson as lincoln, which just seems wrong to me. the height is similar, but lincoln was such a thin and sickly guy while neeson has always been built like a barn. adrian brody would match physically, but the nose would be too distracting.
the biggest outrage though is reconciling the fact that lincoln was mixed-race -- which is why it drives me nuts when people say obama is our first black president...hello people, check your history. how can such a white man like neeson play a black man. are they going to do black-face make up like robert downey, jr.? very strange.
Why couldn't a very tall white actor play Abraham Lincoln? I really can't think of an actor more physically suited to playing him (plus the age is just right). With the proper makeup and dieting, he could totally pull it off. And Liam Neeson is not some brickhouse muscle god, by the way.
There are much more egregious cases of miscasting to harp on about, believe me.
Edited By flipp525 on 1234556869
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:50 pm
by rolotomasi99
last i heard they had cast liam neeson as lincoln, which just seems wrong to me. the height is similar, but lincoln was such a thin and sickly guy while neeson has always been built like a barn. adrian brody would match physically, but the nose would be too distracting.
the biggest outrage though is reconciling the fact that lincoln was mixed-race -- which is why it drives me nuts when people say obama is our first black president...hello people, check your history. how can such a white man like neeson play a black man. are they going to do black-face make up like robert downey, jr.? very strange.
