Best Actress
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OscarGuy
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No, I really don't. You're implying, again quite incorrectly, that my dislike of Robert Benigni must be latent bigotry. That's bull shit. I reject the notion entirely. I'm also not saying that there isn't some bigoted dislike of a winner in certain circles, but I doubt that Magilla, Damien or any of the others who disliked Cotillard with a passion made that decision based on her nationality, which is what you are implying.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
I'm slowly falling in love with you AND Oscar Guy... Maybe bisexuality does exist after all!Steph2 wrote:ITALIANO wrote:There is no stench of garbage in the streets of Milan - or Rome or any other Italian city, trust me, except in a few small towns around Naples.
And anyway, like there isn't the stench of garbage in many American cities, including New York (which I love)? And nothing matches the stench that America emits on the global scale in terms of pollution anyway.
Must I point out the obvious dear?OscarGuy wrote:I also reject the idea that because someone didn't like a person's performance that immediately makes them xenophobic. I didn't like Roberto Benigni, but I loved Cotillard. So does my dislike of Benigni make me xenophobic? No. I have enjoyed films of many languages. French, Italian, Portuguese, Chinese, Japanese. That doesn't attest to or refute a charge of xenophobia.
I think it's just as racist/bigoted to stereotype a group of people who dislike one performance as xenophobic as it is to recognize it.
Of course disliking a performance does not make someone xenophobic (I've never really cared for Sophia Laren) or racist (Halle Berry is one of the worst wins ever). But a certain disproportionate reaction to a person - seemingly because they are "different" or "foreign" - is often a sign of latent bigotry. Come now, you know this.
And anyway, like there isn't the stench of garbage in many American cities, including New York (which I love)? And nothing matches the stench that America emits on the global scale in terms of pollution anyway.ITALIANO wrote:There is no stench of garbage in the streets of Milan - or Rome or any other Italian city, trust me, except in a few small towns around Naples.
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OscarGuy
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Just because you dislike someone's performance does not make them an idiot. I reject that entire notion. There may be some naivety out there, but that does not make someone an idiot. And sometimes it takes a mass exposure like an Oscar win to clue them into the real world. Celebrities do and are exposed to more significant aspects of the world than many Americans (and even people in other countries). It's because they are expected to take a stand on issues. The public demands it. I'm not saying that they are right or wrong, but they don't deserve to be termed an idiot at all.
I also reject the idea that because someone didn't like a person's performance that immediately makes them xenophobic. I didn't like Roberto Benigni, but I loved Cotillard. So does my dislike of Benigni make me xenophobic? No. I have enjoyed films of many languages. French, Italian, Portuguese, Chinese, Japanese. That doesn't attest to or refute a charge of xenophobia.
I think it's just as racist/bigoted to stereotype a group of people who dislike one performance as xenophobic as it is to recognize it.
People who look for racism everywhere will find it. Those who expect failure will achieve it.
I don't support the claim that anyone is an idiot for what they believe. The only time I would call someone an idiot is when they are exposed to facts (not opinions, but facts) to the contrary and refuse to accept them.
I also reject the idea that because someone didn't like a person's performance that immediately makes them xenophobic. I didn't like Roberto Benigni, but I loved Cotillard. So does my dislike of Benigni make me xenophobic? No. I have enjoyed films of many languages. French, Italian, Portuguese, Chinese, Japanese. That doesn't attest to or refute a charge of xenophobia.
I think it's just as racist/bigoted to stereotype a group of people who dislike one performance as xenophobic as it is to recognize it.
People who look for racism everywhere will find it. Those who expect failure will achieve it.
I don't support the claim that anyone is an idiot for what they believe. The only time I would call someone an idiot is when they are exposed to facts (not opinions, but facts) to the contrary and refuse to accept them.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Thanks, Steph. You are a free thinker, and I'm sure that actually many here often agree with me - or with us. Our problem is that those few who don't are very powerful here.Steph2 wrote:I'm allowed to have my own opinion and even yes, agree with someone on this board that many of you don't agree with. That's not a crime or a sin (or a reason for a secret meeting - I kid, I kid!) I wouldn't have to agree with him so much if he wasn't always SO right.
Big Magilla wrote:.
American artists who go to Paris or Milan to accept awards don't give interviews criticizing the French and Italian governments or for that matter, even openly complain about the stench of garbage in the streets that hasn't been picked up because of ongoing sanitiation strikes.
But others do actually. For example Fanny Ardant - right before going last year to the Venice festival where one of her movies was in competition - went as far as saying that she supported the Red Brigades (an extreme-left terrorist organization which killed lots of innocent people in Italy from the 70s till now) and calling their leader a "hero". Someone (especially right-wing politicians) complained about this, but she wasn't prevented from taking part in the Festival and wasn't even booed when she appeared. This is real freedom of expression, Big Magilla, but it's clear (even from your strategy on this board) that freedom of expression for you is something acceptable only in theory.
There is no stench of garbage in the streets of Milan - or Rome or any other Italian city, trust me, except in a few small towns around Naples. But of course it's interesting that the media you get informations from portrays this as being a problem of all Italy (and it doesn't have anything to do with strikes by the way - your hated communists are innocent this time) - it's not, but if you want to believe that you live in the most beautiful country of the world, Big Magilla, go on watching those tv channels, and keep on dreaming.
Edited By ITALIANO on 1204564878
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OscarGuy
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How is it not plausible? The Russians launched Sputnik and the US was afraid of being seen as losers in the "space race" and so it wouldn't be at all inconceivable to stage a moon landing so as to make it appear the US were more advanced than the Russians.Hustler wrote:You know, I´ve heard that theory many times. Of course,I don´t find it plausible, but let´s accept many people think that way.As for the moon landing, that theory is straight out of a movie, and more plausible. Besides, which, it doesn't hurt anyone.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Big Magilla wrote:American artists who go to Paris or Milan to accept awards don't give interviews criticizing the French and Italian governments or for that matter, even openly complain about the stench of garbage in the streets that hasn't been picked up because of ongoing sanitiation strikes.
Because Americans are well versed in fakery and hypocrisy. It's true, Big Magilla. We are trained in it as children, the societal expectation is that we not question the status quo at all. And if we're not going to openly criticize our own country, you expect us to do it in another country about that country openly? No. But we will do it the cowardly way -- safe back home in America and behind their backs.
I know this will be pooh poohed but everytime I'm in Europe, I'm struck by how differently these kids are raised and how much more willing them are to question their environment. Not just America, but yes even their own countries. We could learn to do a little bit of that ourselves.
Bravo Marco! As always, bra-fucking vo!
Let me just start off by saying, I know I'm going to get shit for this and told that I'm just egging Marco on, so let me just say in advance, I'm allowed to have my own opinion and even yes, agree with someone on this board that many of you don't agree with. That's not a crime or a sin (or a reason for a secret meeting - I kid, I kid!) I wouldn't have to agree with him so much if he wasn't always SO right.
Anyone is free to dislike Cotillard and her performance of course but a lot of the attacks on her here - and in other places online - are clearly xenophobic. You are correct Marco, and it doesn't stop there. Not too long ago, Uri made a point about casting a person of color in a "bitch" role in Juno and I agreed with him and instantly we were pooh poohed because "racism doesn't exist in everything." Oh really? Sorry, I must have climbed into a wardrobe and wound up in Narnia then because in the America I know, racism, xenophobia and all manner of bigotry are alive and well. Yes even sometimes on this board, believe it or not.
Oscar Guy, I'm with you on the 9-11 attacks. No I don't believe they were orchestrated by Americans but I do believe wittingly or unwittingly, the Bush Administration allowed it to happen with its incompetence. And of course they were secretly pleased when it happened and have exploited the tragedy to further their own terrorism on the Iraqi people. Make no mistake about it my friends: the America we all love so much (and love to defend blindly without proper criticism) is a terrorist state right now. The conservatives are correct, we are certainly harboring them -- because WE have become terrorists.
Anyway, even if Cotillard's comments did make her a bit of an idiot, so what? As if there isn't an abundance of idiocy among American actors, even those with Oscars and Oscar nominations? Please. When it comes to sheer foolishness, the American cup runneth over! Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt, Jamie Foxx, Mark Wahlberg, Jennifer Hudson, Matthew McConaughey, Kate Hudson, Jessica Alba just off the top of my head, complete idiots all of them. And not one of them is as charming or talented as Cotillard.
Let me just start off by saying, I know I'm going to get shit for this and told that I'm just egging Marco on, so let me just say in advance, I'm allowed to have my own opinion and even yes, agree with someone on this board that many of you don't agree with. That's not a crime or a sin (or a reason for a secret meeting - I kid, I kid!) I wouldn't have to agree with him so much if he wasn't always SO right.
Anyone is free to dislike Cotillard and her performance of course but a lot of the attacks on her here - and in other places online - are clearly xenophobic. You are correct Marco, and it doesn't stop there. Not too long ago, Uri made a point about casting a person of color in a "bitch" role in Juno and I agreed with him and instantly we were pooh poohed because "racism doesn't exist in everything." Oh really? Sorry, I must have climbed into a wardrobe and wound up in Narnia then because in the America I know, racism, xenophobia and all manner of bigotry are alive and well. Yes even sometimes on this board, believe it or not.
Oscar Guy, I'm with you on the 9-11 attacks. No I don't believe they were orchestrated by Americans but I do believe wittingly or unwittingly, the Bush Administration allowed it to happen with its incompetence. And of course they were secretly pleased when it happened and have exploited the tragedy to further their own terrorism on the Iraqi people. Make no mistake about it my friends: the America we all love so much (and love to defend blindly without proper criticism) is a terrorist state right now. The conservatives are correct, we are certainly harboring them -- because WE have become terrorists.
Anyway, even if Cotillard's comments did make her a bit of an idiot, so what? As if there isn't an abundance of idiocy among American actors, even those with Oscars and Oscar nominations? Please. When it comes to sheer foolishness, the American cup runneth over! Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt, Jamie Foxx, Mark Wahlberg, Jennifer Hudson, Matthew McConaughey, Kate Hudson, Jessica Alba just off the top of my head, complete idiots all of them. And not one of them is as charming or talented as Cotillard.
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Big Magilla
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Italiano - stop putting words in my mouth. The only people I know of who confuse Muslim extremists with all Muslims are those people they talk about in the news, same as you. All of my Muslim friends are hard working, deeply caring, "clean" and extremely generous.
American artists who go to Paris or Milan to accept awards don't give interviews criticizing the French and Italian governments or for that matter, even openly complain about the stench of garbage in the streets that hasn't been picked up because of ongoing sanitiation strikes.
Self-promotion may be part of the game, and if putting yourself out there gets people to see your film, fine, but in the end it's the performance that should speak for itself and that rarely happens in the world of Oscars where everything is make believe, including the people.
American artists who go to Paris or Milan to accept awards don't give interviews criticizing the French and Italian governments or for that matter, even openly complain about the stench of garbage in the streets that hasn't been picked up because of ongoing sanitiation strikes.
Self-promotion may be part of the game, and if putting yourself out there gets people to see your film, fine, but in the end it's the performance that should speak for itself and that rarely happens in the world of Oscars where everything is make believe, including the people.
Right Wes, I´m supporting with the same idea. the terrorists involved with the 9/11 episode, received military instruction in the U.S.OscarGuy wrote:I'm one of those people who believe that the government had a hand in 9/11. Not the planning or the execution, mind you. Nor in the collapse of the towers, but I believe the government knew about the events and permitted them to happen as a way to rally and unite a country against an enemy that would pave a way towards war.