Virginia Tech Massacre

[Akash]

Flipp, I hear you I really do. But limited control does almost nothing. To me one either has to embrace an absolute restriction or none at all. That may sound unfair but a timorous restriction in this case will not have any efficacy.

I'm personally in the camp that thinks the Second Amendment allowance of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers squarely to "a well regulated milita" and I believe history backs that interpretation. As for your personal story, I'm glad your poor friend and his boyfriend escaped that horrible incident unscathed, but cribbing Kant's categorical imperative - i.e. weighing the "positive" result for your friend against the "negative" results for many others - this incident is not a maxim that can be universally applied.

In general - and I apologize for how harsh this may sound - an individual example for an issue that affects so many wouldn't be enough for me to render a decision. Realistically, individual examples can be cited for just about anything but the law of the land has to be removed from that kind of personal response. Same goes for capital punishment in my view - it has to be removed from the anguish of individual families whose loved ones have been murdered. They have a right to their grief and anger but the State has a duty to look past that and protect a wider citizenry and a higher cause.

Anyway I won't go any further because I'm afraid any lengthier discourse on my part may be misconstrued by another person as insensitive or just lead us into another debate that goes nowhere. So I'll end with water pistols and dildos. Those should definitely be allowed.

[flipp525]

As for gun control Sonic, I'm actually against citizens outside of the police force owning any kind of gun at all. I should have stated that earlier.

I'm all for a certain amount of gun control but I think taking away a citizen's access to handguns entirely can set a dangerous precedent.

A friend of mine from the gym, a senior fellow for a Washington-based libertarian think tank, credits the Second Amendment with saving his life. He was threatened by a group of 19-20 young men on a deserted street in San Jose in 1982. They chased him and his boyfriend through the streets shouting gay epithets and death threats. He pulled out a 9 mm semi-automatic pistol that he owned legally and pointed it at the group of youths, whom he was almost certain had planned to harm or kill him and his boyfriend in a gay bashing incident. The group of youths backed off once they saw the gun and he was spared from possible injury or even death.



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[Akash]

I dunno Sonic. In general whites get the privilege of individuality in the US. Any other group has to carry the burden of race and ethnicity. Perhaps labeling is not accurate - yes the articles would mention if the person was white, but the reaction to it would be entirely different. In this case, it feels like there is a little too much emphasis on "Asian."

As for gun control Sonic, I'm actually against citizens outside of the police force owning any kind of gun at all. I should have stated that earlier.

[Sonic Youth]

I'm all for gun control, but it wouldn't have prevented anything here. He purchased the guns legally, they were only handguns and not assault weapons, he was of age, he didn't have a criminal record, and although we're hearing about his behavior and mental illness through word-of-mouth now, there isn't much on record that would have disqualified him from purchasing.

My wife is from Madras (we refuse to call it Chennai.) We'll be going over there after Thanksgiving.

Unfortunately, they have to provide a description in leiu of identification. But 'Asian' is much too broad a term, especially in this era of Islamophobia. But if he were white, they'd say 'white', no?

[Akash]

Greg, I was born in the US too. In Connecticut. My parents are from India though they've both been here for a long time (they both went to Med school in the U.S., met here, got married and the rest is history)

I didn't have the reaction to "Asian" regarding the shooter that Sonic's wife did because I guess I mentally isolated East and South Asian but I can see how she (or anyone else) would be uncomfortable.

It's just so unseemly and obviously racist. When white men commit murders and other atrocities, we don't begin every news article with "Caucasian Killer."

[Greg]

Sonic's wife is Indian. Akash, even though I was born in the United States, I can empathize with you. I used to be an extremely shy person and went through pretty much all of high school as a friendless loner, so all these "loner gunmen" headlines fly out at me. If I had to guess, I would say that, on the average, loners are less violent than the population as a whole. What worries me is that it might reach the point where homelessness increases because it will become difficult to even get an entry-level job at McDonalds without having to pass a psycholigical test first.

[Akash]

Seriously. The "Asian" appellation tot his appalling tragedy has got to stop. Why not just say "English major goes nuts!" or something?

My heart goes out to your co-workers Flipp, and to anyone connected in any way with this awful event.

Sonic, is your wife South Asian or did I misread your post? Either way I understand why she'd be annoyed/upset.

Watch the Bush Administration run with the word "Asian" and jump on the immigration bandwagon to distract us from the real dialogue that should be coming out of this tragedy: gun control. Did the NRA already have its panic meeting like it did after Columbine? Even though he's no longer their leader, I'm sure Heston still has that old script somewhere so he can practice waving his gun and saying "Out of my cold dead hands." If only sir, if only...

[flipp525]

God, they're really playing up the "CRAZY FOREIGNER!" angle, aren't they?

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I named the title of this thread before I'd heard this sad event referred to as the "Virginia Tech massacre" by almost every news source out there. I think it's a pretty apt description.



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[Sonic Youth]

Tell me why I don't like Monday's,
Tell me why I don't like Monday's,
Tell me why I don't like, I don't like...

It's now 33 dead, and really, what is there to say? This is one of those ocassions where words fail.

It didn't help things in our household when the media kept saying the shooter was "an Asian". I realised it's a very broad term and that in American media it's almost certain to mean an East Asian. But that really upset my wife and made her feel implicated. I can only imagine how Muslims were feeling.

[kaytodd]

God, I feel for your colleagues at work. I cannot imagine how it feels to be the parent of a VT student and not knowing whether your child is alright. I, like almost every parent, has experienced the brief periods of panic when I do not see my young child in a public place or in our neighborhood. Once this feeling of panic lasted for more than a few minutes. It was like an out of body experience, like my mind would not let me actually experience what was going on because it would be too much to endure. I will never forget the terror or the tremendous relief when I spotted my child safe and sound.

What I felt that day was nothing compared to what thousands of VT parents are going through right now.

[flipp525]

This is absolutely horrifying. I work with a ton of Tech grads and several people here at work have children that go there so the mood here is alternately somber and frantic.

From CNN.com
Chief: At least 20 dead in campus shootings
POSTED: 12:49 p.m. EDT, April 16, 2007

(CNN) -- The Virginia Tech police chief said at least 20 people were killed in twin shootings on the Blacksburg campus Monday morning.

"Some victims were shot in a classroom," Chief Wendell Flinchum said, adding that the gunman was dead.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university President Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified." (Map of Blacksburg)

The attacks mark the worst school shooting incident since 1999 when Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.

A hospital spokeswoman told The Associated Press that 17 Virginia Tech students were being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries.

Sharon Honaker at the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center told CNN that four patients had been transported there, one in critical condition.

One person was killed and others were wounded at multiple locations inside a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., Flinchum said. Two hours later, another shooting at Norris Hall, the engineering science and mechanics building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported. (Watch police, ambulances hustle to the scene )

The first reported shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on the 2,600-acre campus, is located near the drill field and stadium.

Amie Steele, editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper, said one of her reporters at the dormitory reported "mass chaos."

The reporter said there were "lots of students running around, going crazy, and the police officers were trying to settle everyone down and keep everything under control," according to Steele.

Kristyn Heiser said she was in class about 9:30 a.m. when she and her classmates saw about six gun-wielding police officers run by a window.

"We were like, 'What's going on?' Because this definitely is a quaint town where stuff doesn't really happen. It's pretty boring here," said Heiser during a phone interview as she sat on her classroom floor.

Student Matt Waldron said he did not hear the gunshots because he was listening to music, but he heard police sirens and saw officers hiding behind trees with their guns drawn.

"They told us to get out of there so we ran across the drill field as quick as we could," he said.

Waldron described the scene on campus as "mayhem." (Watch a student's recording of police responding to loud bangs )

"It was kind of scary," he said. "These two kids I guess had panicked and jumped out of the top story window and the one kid broke his ankle and the other girl was not in good shape just lying on the ground."

Madison Van Duyne said she and her classmates in a media writing class were on "lockdown" in their classrooms. They were huddled in the middle of the classroom, writing stories about the shootings and posting them online.

The university is updating its 26,000 students through e-mails, and an Internet webcam is broadcasting live pictures of the campus.

The shootings came three days after a bomb threat Friday forced the cancellation of classes in three buildings, WDBJ in Roanoke reported. Also, the 100,000-square-foot Torgersen Hall was evacuated April 2 after police received a written bomb threat, The Roanoke Times reported.

After the Monday shootings, students were instructed to stay indoors and away from windows, police at the university said.

"A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows," read a warning from the university.

"Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where they are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus," a statement on the university Web site said.



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