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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:28 pm
by Damien
Penelope wrote:Oh, c'mon, Damien. I don't care for animated films, either, but I'll be the first to say that many of them contain themes and ideas that can and do appeal to adults. They're as valid an art form as any other. Just not my bag. But I'm not going to ridicule those who enjoy such films, just as I don't want to be ridiculed for enjoying Lana Turner/Ross Hunter melodramas or As the World Turns.
No disagreement, Pen. yes cartoons CAN be artistically valid, as has been shown by such works as Waking Life, Yellow Submarine, the films of Ralph Bakshi and John and Faith Hubley; Beavis & Butt-head and so on. But here we're talking about Pixar movies, which to me seem designed for pinheads.
It's akin to comparing such ostensible pieces of children's literature as Alice in Wonderland and The Wizard of Oz, which are fraught with adult meanings and references, to My Pet Goat, or whatever that book was that Bush found so rivetting on 9/11.
Or Ross Hunter movies. When directed by a David Lowell Rich or a Jerry Hopper, it's a piece of junk. When it's Douglas Sirk, it's an amazing, corrosive work of art.
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:34 pm
by The Original BJ
Sigh. Here we go again.
I'm still waiting for Damien's review of The Chronicles of Narnia, a film which is so clearly not for children.
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:59 am
by Hustler
Can't wait to discuss the nuances of "Pat The Bunny" and "Goodnight, Moon."
I´m looking forward to debating them with you
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:06 am
by Penelope
Oh, c'mon, Damian. I don't care for animated films, either, but I'll be the first to say that many of them contain themes and ideas that can and do appeal to adults. They're as valid an art form as any other. Just not my bag. But I'm not going to ridicule those who enjoy such films, just as I don't want to be ridiculed for enjoying Lana Turner/Ross Hunter melodramas or As the World Turns.
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:38 am
by Damien
Can I join you guys' book club? Can't wait to discuss the nuances of "Pat The Bunny" and "Goodnight, Moon."
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:36 am
by Hustler
I just can't believe that you people -- most of whom are adults, and adults who don't have kids, which would necessitate your doing so -- would willingly give over several hours of your life to this goddamn cartoon.
I´m an adult who has 3 kids. In spite of that circumstance I consider that cartoons are not just necessarily for kids. I enjoy them usually very much.
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:46 am
by criddic3
There is a difference between the afternoon/weekend television cartoons and the animated films that some of us praise, Damien.
Animation, even that which is geared more for families and kids, has entertainment value for everyone. For example, Spirited Away is among the best films released in the last several years. It has a good story, great characters and beautiful animation. Not every animated film is that good, but most are at least entertaining. I don't really understand you're distain for the genre. Many of these films take about as long (sometimes longer) to make than the standard live-action film does. Just as much artistic vision is put into them, and just as much effort. So why can't people admire them?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:30 am
by Damien
I just can't believe that you people -- most of whom are adults, and adults who don't have kids, which would necessitate your doing so -- would willingly give over several hours of your life to this goddamn cartoon.
What is wrong with you? CARTOONS ARE FOR KIDS. Do you all also play Hide 'n' Seek and eat Fluffernutters?
The mind boggles.
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:59 pm
by Hustler
CARS...but still, although it isn't QUITE as great as its predecessors
I agree. On the other hand it´s too long and a little bit pretencious.
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:34 am
by anonymous1980
My rankings for PIXAR films so far:
01. Toy Story 2
02. The Incredibles
03. Toy Story
04. Finding Nemo
05. A Bug's Life
06. Monsters Inc.
07. Cars
Cars is the only one in the group I didn't rush to see again although I may still be purchasing the DVD. I've seen the other six in the group several times at least. I loved all of them.
Damien, you're probably the only person I know who actively dislikes PIXAR.
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:11 am
by Precious Doll
I saw it a few weeks ago and fell asleep. Needless to say I'm not rushing back to see about the 20 minutes that I missed. I found the film way overlong and dull.
Perhaps it may also have something to do with my disinterest in cars in general, as I don't even know how to drive and have no interest in ever learning.
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:54 am
by Big Magilla
I liked the Toy Story movies, found Finding Nemo tedious while Monsters, Inc. and The Incredibles gave em a headache. Am expecting much the same from Cars, which I have no desire to rush out and see.
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:57 am
by Damien
OscarGuy wrote:2. Finding Nemo
4. The Incredibles
5. Cars
If Cars is even worse than Finding Nemo and The Incredibles -- the only 2 of these goddamn things I've seen -- then it must be among the biggest pieces of crap of all time.
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:05 am
by OscarGuy
I very much enjoyed the film. I think the utterly banal Toy Story is the worst of the Pixar releases (I didn't like it much at all, though I do adore Toy Story 2, which I think is their pinnacle). I loved A Bug's Life but I think one of the reasons it falls so flatly on us is that it's a completely different milieu for Pixar. While there are heavily car-centered themes, all of the previous movies were more focused towards the girls instead of the boys. This is the first that truly supports boys' adolescent curiosities...I know it may seem sexist but seriously...
Anyway, I think there were plenty of narrative thefts along the way but it's an animated movie and they all dumb down the plot for younger audiences, which is why it feels so hackneyed and predictable.
Good installment, not the best, not the worst. Average, I would say.
I think my ranking would be:
1. Toy Story 2
2. Finding Nemo
3. A Bug's Life
4. The Incredibles
5. Cars
6. Monsters, Inc.
7. Toy Story
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:07 pm
by The Original BJ
As a great fan of Pixar's output, I wanted to see Cars twice before posting anything. (Cue Damien recoiling in horror.) Everyone is right—Cars is easily the least of the Pixar films—although I'm not sure what all the griping is about. It's still one of the best films so far this year, and I must disagree wholeheartedly with Mister Tee's comment that the film turns visually dull after the opening. My jaw practically hit the floor the first time I saw those stunningly realistic vistas during Lightning and Sally's drive. And whether or not the film's conclusion is predictable, it still moved me to tears both times, goshdarnit!
The major reason I think the response to Cars has been a bit muted is that although the Pixar team has developed an excellent formula of wit, warmth, and visual splendor . . . that formula is really starting to show signs of wear and tear. I loved Finding Nemo, but even I had inklings then that the Pixar films could quickly become derivative without a shake-up of some sorts. And while hardly a failure, much of Cars feels like a retread, not only of older films, but of Pixar's own. The group of colorful supporting cars in Radiator Springs feels much like the colorful supporting fish in the dentist's tank in Nemo or the circus bugs in A Bug's Life. "Our Town" serves the exact same narrative purpose as "When She Loved Me." (And good heavens, it pales in comparison musically. I can't imagine a song nomination unless this is an atrocious year for that category . . . which in and of itself is not beyond the realm of possibility, I know.)
I also wonder why the film is so long. Wasn't Toy Story, one of the breeziest narratives of the '90s, under 90 minutes? Why does Cars need to be two hours? There ARE slow spots, and the humor seems to be few and far between when compared to the other Pixar works. Some narrative trimming could have worked minor wonders, I think.
I realize that I'm griping nearly as much as the critics I think have underestimated the film. I still think it's a delightful film . . . but I just feel hesitant that the folks at Pixar are headed in the wrong direction and I would hate for the company's films to become as stale as the majority of computer animated pictures these days.