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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:52 am
by Precious Doll
panos wrote:I'd take the mindless Jackass crew any day over a Scorsese picture staring Leonardo DiCaprio.
I wouldn't make that statement even for a Michael Bay picture with Steven Seagal starring.
Even a mediocre Scorsese film is far superior enterntaintment than 90% of the movies that are currently shown over the world.
Well, that's how I feel about recent Scorsese.
Anyway it's all relative. I'd rather watch a Scorsese film with DiCaprio then a Michael Bay film no matter who was in it.
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:38 am
by Eric
Let me rephrase it a bit. To my taste, the Jackass films say more about the state of masculinity than Scorsese's film, even though the latter seems to make great attempts at addressing this topic and the former doesn't really appear to be addressing anything at all.
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:52 am
by 112-1041439588
I'd take the mindless Jackass crew any day over a Scorsese picture staring Leonardo DiCaprio.
I wouldn't make that statement even for a Michael Bay picture with Steven Seagal starring.
Even a mediocre Scorsese film is far superior enterntaintment than 90% of the movies that are currently shown over the world.
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:48 am
by Precious Doll
criddic3 wrote:Well, Jackass Number Two is superior to the Scorsese movie.
I find this hard to believe.
I don't.
I'd take the mindless Jackass crew any day over a Scorsese picture staring Leonardo DiCaprio.
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:18 am
by criddic3
Well, Jackass Number Two is superior to the Scorsese movie.
I find this hard to believe.
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:54 am
by Penelope
Sonic, about that SPOILER: the dénouement is similar to Infernal Affairs, though The Departed tweaks it by adding a fourth character and shifting the location--but it doesn't explain, either, how the 2nd mole came to be there.
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:16 am
by Sonic Youth
My audience was good. They were quiet througout the final confrontations - I'm assuming this means they were riveted and not put off - and there was some sardonic laughter at the final shot which I'm sure was intended. But yeah, I've heard stories of those final scenes totally losing the audience.
Those final twenty-five minutes is a big shift from everything that came before. Thinking about it, tonally The Departed reminds me of American Beauty.
But one question about that ending, and this is a total SPOILER so anyone who hasn't seen the film should STOP READING NOW.
When Damon and DiCaprio go down that elevator in the empty building, DiCaprio gets shot by another cop who works for Costello. How did he know they would be in the building? I assume he was shadowing Damon, but I don't think this was explained. Any suggestions?
Is this to say "not Scorsese-for-hire at all"? Because Gangs of New York was about as much a pet auteur project as I can imagine for Scorsese. At what point do we call his work "for hire" simply because it covers artistic territory that the director more or less created decades ago?
I knew someone was going to focus on that statement after I submitted it. Yes, yes, I'm aware GONY started out as a pet project for Scorsese. You're right. (The question remains as to if it remained Marty's pet, or ended up as a product of Harvey's heavy hand.) I wasn't saying "Scorsese-for-hire" as a statement of fact. That's just my reaction to these films. It doesn't feel like Scorsese adds much to the screenplays beyond a narrative thrust. The Departed is a genre piece and that's that, no different than Cape Fear. Yeah, it's BETTER, but it's no deeper.
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:26 am
by Franz Ferdinand
Sabin wrote:But I found their hysterics during a certain surprising scene near the end absolutely ruinous, dark joke or not.
I'll assume you're referring to what I think you are: most of the audience was laughing during the entire finale, which maybe indicates their humours as blacker than mine. If you are referring to the final shot, it was quite obvious and I found it humorous, as did everyone else.
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:03 am
by Eric
Sabin wrote:nice to hear they were digging a new Scorsese film when they could very easily be watching 'Jackass 2'
Well, Jackass Number Two is superior to the Scorsese movie.
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:07 am
by criddic3
One of Jack Nicholson's best performances was in the woefully underseen and underrated 'The Pledge'
He was incredible in "the Pledge." But what happens in the film near the end seemed a little too obvious - too much of a coincidence or too ironic. And the fact that it was so downbeat cost it an audience. However, it proved to me that Sean Penn could be an effective director if he found suitable material.
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:34 pm
by Sonic Youth
flipp525 wrote:That Jack’s essential Jack-isms actually do end up working for the character and the film really just speaks to good casting.
I generally agree with your point, and that would be fine if this were, say, About Schmidt. But this isn't a role that demands Nicholson to stretch any.
I'm reading two divergent viewpoints. Penelope is saying it took her out of the film. What you just said is that it works for the film. Maybe it all depends on how the viewer responds to the film.
(I'm assuming you saw the film? Can't really tell.)
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:43 pm
by Sabin
Who said anything about Wahlburg and Baldwin being naturalistic? Those two performances deviate from reality more than any other in the film!
One of Jack Nicholson's best performances was in the woefully underseen and underrated 'The Pledge', a depiction of male menopause that puts 'About Schmidt' to shame. The guy can act; he's just not pressured to do so here, I think. People went for Jack, people laughed at Jack, and I said in my quasi-review that his star presence in the movie is pretty key to its success. I wouldn't say it's great or even good acting by any means (too often I get the impression his choices are based around craft services), but it serves to maintain equilibrium with Damon and DiCaprio.
The audience I saw this movie with was a pest, laughing incessantly throughout -- nice to hear they were digging a new Scorsese film when they could very easily be watching 'Jackass 2', 'Texas Chainsaw 2', or either of two Ashton Kutcher. But I found their hysterics during a certain surprising scene near the end absolutely ruinous, dark joke or not.
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:36 pm
by Anon
Penelope wrote:Whatever. We'll agree to disagree on this one. All I can say is everytime Jack appeared, he took me right out of the picture and destroyed whatever minimal pleasure I was getting from the film. I sat there wondering why half the audience was laughing at this crap.
Hello everyone, I've been out of the country for the past few months, stayed away from this board, but now I'm back in time for the fall Oscar-season discussion (so it seems).
And just in time to see one of the first movies on my must-see list; I saw The Departed over the weekend.
Haven't yet seen Infernal Affairs (but it is in my queue on Netflix) so I can't compare the two versions yet, but I thought The Departed was a hoot!
Contrary to Penelope's movie-going experience, my friend and I were the only ones in the theater laughing out loud at all of the Jackisms in this movie. I really didn't take it seriously as a "crime drama" - more like a crime satire - until the last part. Still, I wouldn't say that the funny parts (thanks to Jack the Joker) ruined the impact of this film. In part, I agree that much of what made The Departed so engaging was Leo's truly amazing performance. I was sad to see what happened to him at the end.
I expected a very macho, testosterone-driven movie and got it. Felt bad for Vera Farmiga (will have to see if the female character in Infernal Affairs was this superficially drawn as well): she really didn't have much to do, which is a crying shame considering that she was supposed to be a psychiatrist who could've added another layer to this story. And, yet, her "patients"/lovers psyched her out more than she could diagnose them! She was so clueless about either of the men in her life (and, no, I don't buy that "Irish are inscrutable" argument). Don't you just love the way Hollywood movies don't distinguish all that much between attractive professional women and uneducated airheads?
I don't know if this is indicative of the macho script and direction that didn't allow her character to expand. Then again, if someone like, say, Kate Winslet, were cast, would she have made a bigger impact and done more with the role?
Either way, The Departed was quite enjoyable and suspenseful (not sure I'd go overboard with the praise as all of the critics seem to be doing). Have a hard time seeing this being nominated for Best Picture but definitely see it getting Best Director, Screenplay, Actor (Leo), and Supporting Actor (Jack) nods.
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:52 pm
by The Original BJ
The word that's been thrown out a lot with respect to this film is 'entertaining,' and I certainly agree. (That said, I still think a good half hour could have been trimmed, as some portions certainly lagged.)
Jack Nicholson, though not believable for five seconds as an actual human being, is a hoot. An over-the-top performance, but, I agree with Sonic, appropriate for the character and film in which it appears.
I also was very impressed with Leonardo DiCaprio, and think this is clearly is best post-Gilbert Grape performance. His blend of vulnerability and arrogance was thrilling to watch. Plus, I think he's very well-suited for this role; for all his efforts, I thought he wasn't well cast in either Gangs of New York or The Aviator.
The cheerily profane dialogue did grate on me after a while, particularly because my audience couldn't stop laughing. Maybe it's just me, but I didn't find the lines all that clever, and sometimes it just seemed like people got far too big a kick out of hearing Jack Nicholson wax poetic about cunts.
Don't know why Vera Farmiga has gotten such a lackluster response. I thought her subplots with both Damon and DiCaprio's characters added a very interesting dimension to the film. Of course her role wasn't challenging, but anyone who doubts her talent should rent Down to the Bone ASAP.
So, it's a fun film, certainly not on the level of Goodfellas, but I'll also take issue with the 'best since Goodfellas' label. In my opinion, this is definitely not as interesting a picture as The Age of Innocence or Casino, and though it may be more absorbing than both Gangs of New York and The Aviator, I think I admire those two flawed works more for their ambitions.
P.S. I haven't seen Infernal Affairs, but I'm definitely interested in checking it out now.
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:50 pm
by Okri
Infernal Affairs should definitely be seen first.