The Official Review Thread of 2007

[Eric]

My experience lately is that the term "bisexual" has been used more often by basically straight guys who want to appear more open-minded, but I hardly chide them for it.

[ITALIANO]

Oops... Computer crashed and it get posted twice... you can just read it once

[ITALIANO]

It. Was. A. Joke! Why would you think I would ever want to bring you into any conversation!:p

Ok, iit was American sense of humour...

Of course, Aakash, most people (even those who otherwise lead a perfectly heterosexual life) have, have had - or wish to have - sex with those of their own gender, at least when they are very young or still experimenting. In this sense, we are or (especially) we have all been bisexuals, so the term wouldn't really mean much. But if you also think of love, affection, feelings, and not just the mechanical act of sex, well, I've rarely, or actually I've never known a "pure", 50-50 bisexual. Lots of straight men who look for sex with other men because they are curious, want to try new things or more simply live in societies where women aren't easy to get except after marriage so they have to look elsewhere for sexual release. And of course lots, lots of gays who pretend to be straight in the eyes of society, even marry and have children, but can't give up going to bed with other men. But bisexuals: zero.
And since in some parts of the world, unfortunately, this word is still used by gays who aren't confortable with themselves as a sort of self-reassuring way out, an easier-to-accept definition, well, I find it kind of hypocritical.

Not in your case, of course. But we'll have time to talk about this - in bed...

[Sabin]

It was you who brought me into this debate (without any reason - oh no, wait, because I'm not American, right)

It. Was. A. Joke! Why would you think I would ever want to bring you into any conversation!:p

[Akash]

I'd just like to say, I really enjoyed Superbad. And I've never had trouble getting laid.

[Akash]

and my welcoming bed is still visited by a huge number of men (and some women in the past), straight and gay and anything in between (but not bisexuals - I don't believe in bisexuality).

Marco! I love that your posts are often provocative but come come now! You know better than this. You don't believe in bisexuality? What am I, from the Land of Make Believe?

Oh well, guess I can't climb into YOUR bed, Marco...

[ITALIANO]

and from you, Italiano, who has already decided that the movie I very much enjoy is beneath you.

I've been on this board for 8 years, I helped my cousin come out of the closet when few others would in my family, I like 'Showgirls', I'm an honorary queer goddammit, and I should be respected as such.

This is funny, I admit it. But seriously, Sabin:

It was you who brought me into this debate (without any reason - oh no, wait, because I'm not American, right) and you know me well enough to expect that I wouldn't have kept silent. There was really no need - I've never been a militant homosexual on this board. But it makes me smile, to tell you the truth - your attempt to safely put me in the circle of gays is quite interesting, I think, and telling.

And the reason why I probably won't see your beloved movie is just because I doubt it will be shown in Italy. Just this. I usually trust your opinions on movies, they are extremely clever and perceptive. Too bad that when it comes to homosexuality you seem to lose your mind...

[Sonic Youth]

Whatever. I give up. Obviously, my point of view and perception of cinema--which is more egalitarian than you seem to want to believe--is diametrically opposed to y'alls.

Beautiful evasion.

Nothing pleases me more than being a part of a group where everyone approaches cinema with their own unique perceptions. I learn a lot that way. Plus, I don't think it's all that radically different.

So, it must be something else that got the argument all heated. Since I've mentioned what it was several times now, I'm not even gonna bother hashing it out again.

[Sabin]

That's such a melodramatic statement, Penelope. I don't believe and I don't think you do either.

I too agree with everything Italiano has just said, and while it makes for an interesting discourse, I don't think it has anything more than ancillary to do with this conversation. I will say that 'Wild Reeds' is one of the best movies of the 90's.

This is why I could understand - to a certain degree - Penelope's reaction. And while you are certainly right when you say that it's sometimes gays who take this admittedly wrong "we versus them" approach, it's still more understandable than when heterosexuals do it, believe me, because it's the result of a cultural problem, not the cause of it.

This is an argument started up for the purposes of rebuking. Sonic & I, resident heterosexuals on this board, have not started an "We" vs. "You" debate. We just wanted to talk about 'Superbad' without it having to come to that. Nobody is denying that it is far easier to be white and straight in this country, but it's pretty fucking lame that I have to keep having this thrown in my face AND with such pandering, from Penelope and from you, Italiano, who has already decided that the movie I very much enjoy is beneath you.

I've been on this board for 8 years, I helped my cousin come out of the closet when few others would in my family, I like 'Showgirls', I'm an honorary queer goddammit, and I should be respected as such.



Edited By Sabin on 1191391957

[Penelope]

Whatever. I give up. Obviously, my point of view and perception of cinema--which is more egalitarian than you seem to want to believe--is diametrically opposed to y'alls.

[Sonic Youth]

Can I bring about the end of the world and say that I agree with approximately.... mmm, 98% of everything ITALIANO has said so far?

[ITALIANO]

Yes but Sabin I wasn't talking about a specific movie - I haven't seen this Superbad and probably never will - and I admitted that there can be exceptions. Yet generally speaking the way American movies portray that sexually confused period of a person's life is very limited and very reassuring (to the heterosexual male and to the way he wants to remember those years). This was my point. And this is why, for example, I liked movies like the Mexican Y tu Mamà Tambièn or the Lebanese (yes, Lebanese, not Scandinavian) West Beirut - because, quite simply, they said the truth. Americans just can't deal with this - in movies, at least - and when they do it's usually just for laughs.

This is why I could understand - to a certain degree - Penelope's reaction. And while you are certainly right when you say that it's sometimes gays who take this admittedly wrong "we versus them" approach, it's still more understandable than when heterosexuals do it, believe me, because it's the result of a cultural problem, not the cause of it.

Eric, I never said that I don't believe in labels. I said the opposite - they are often necessary, politically for example, or to make things clear, because sometimes you need to give a name to things, even if this means to generalize. I just said that when it comes to sexuality these labels aren't enough.

[Sonic Youth]

So I'm not permitted to debate the quality of a film, and, in the process, I cannot insist how tired I am of seeing the same type of film over and over again?

Yeah. You're not allowed to debate the quality of a film. The rest of us are. You're not.

Are you really not getting it? Seriously?

You imply that I should overlook the (barely) competent direction of Knocked Up and Superbad simply because they're so entertaining and contain "truths." Well, so do movies like Beautiful Thing, Get Real and Another Gay Movie, but as much as I enjoyed those films--as well written and/or acted they may be--I cannot raise them up to the canon because the direction is either perfunctory or thoroughly bland.

I don't give a shit-and-a-half what you overlook or don't overlook. You're the one who's insisting on our behalf which standards to go by. Whatever works for you is fine. But that's you.

Anyway, there's lots of established comedy classics with perfunctory direction (Some Like it Hot, The Marx Bros. films, etc.).

There's a certain level of hypocrisy on both sides here; me, yeah, because I'll admit I'm tired same str8 white teenage male wetdreams passing for cinema art, and y'all for defending these same movies but then turning around and berating a genuinely terrific film like, say, Sunshine for regurgitating themes and plots of previous sci-fi/horror flicks.

Absolutely ridiculous.

First, which same movies? There are about twenty a year of this genre that get released. Which twenty of these same movies do we defend?

Second, there is a difference between recognizing a formula and applying it so it works. "American Pie" and its even worse forbears are formula. "Superbad" and "Knocked Up" are unusually keen and perceptive depictions of straight male adolescent/post-adolescent sexual anxieties. And putting that aside, the structure of "Superbad"s plot development and running gags (as with "Harold and Kumar") was surprisingly dense and detailed. If you don't relate, you don't relate. And if you think those characters in "Knocked Up" were mean-spirited and unpleasant, you clearly don't. You see mean-spirited (unpleasant, I'll grant you; they ARE major slobs), I see my old slacker friends with whom I loved to hang out and get high... though ultimately not base a life-style around. And the movie is very much aware of how absurd these people are, while retaining affection for them. As do I. Both movies brought me back to my former life. If that means I'm mean-spirited in your eyes, so be it. It might also mean you're too uptight. To me, continuous snarky interjections of five words or less implying how hopeless we are is what's mean-spirited.

ALL Sci-fi films regurgitate themes, as most films in general do (although my beef with Sunshine wasn't that, it was because it regurgitated an entire structure of a previous film). That's not the point. What's pertinent isn't my saying, it's nearly a carbon copy of Alien. It's that I have nothing else to add to that comment. There is little else that the film offered for me, other than an overwhelming sense of torpor that must be what near-death feels like. Obviously, if I got more out of the film, I would overlook my Alien comparison, but that's what ended up as prominent for me. In general, there are very few Danny Boyle films I appreciate. But I'm not gonna launch kamikaze's on everyone who dares to say they like Sunshine.

Look, one just knows when one sees a genuinely great film--even one that has its minor (or even, in the case of Sunshine, its major flaws)--a film that that has a combination of script, acting, directing and all the other branches combining in the right way--I saw it just the other night in an early Antonioni film, Le Amiche, which could just about be the most perfect woman's picture ever made--films that take you out of yourself, that make you feel and think (and comedy, when done right, certainly makes you feel and think), that does it with originality and intelligence, that makes the cinematic journey simply spendid. Knocked Up and Superbad, I'm afraid, are just not such films.

Ah, now we're comparing "Superbad" and "Knocked Up" to Antonioni. Hello, Rabbi Bengelsdorf. Why don't we go back fifty years and compare Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley to "Rigoletto"?

[rolotomasi99]

not to be sucked into this tete-a-tete of yours, but in answer to penelope's question as to why SUPERBAD and KNOCKED UP were so well received by critics i just wanted to point out the whole feast-or-famine aspect of movie release patterns these days.
we all know, spring is when the bad films are shown, summer is for the expensive films, and fall/winter is for the prestige films. i think because these two comedies were released inbetween some truly awful films, they seemed far sweeter to the usually distinguishing palette of film critics and enthusiasts than would be expected during oscar season.
this is also the same reason perfectly good films being released in a couple months will be trashed because they do not compare with the great films also being released.
people always say i should be a film critic, but i always reply i would never want to have to sit through the GOOD LUCK CHUCK's and HOSTEL 2's...even if you paid me.
for critics, it was less about how great these two comedies were, and more about how much they did not suck.
just my two cents on the subject.

[Sabin]

So I'm not permitted to debate the quality of a film, and, in the process, I cannot insist how tired I am of seeing the same type of film over and over again?

I'm going to keep this brief. You seem to lump all *these* films into the same camp, and that's fine, I can understand it. As a straight male, I get no pleasure out of 99% of those films, they're by in large pretty terrible, reductive stuff, and that's why 'Superbad' is such a pleasure. It transcends an admittedly pretty middling genre and to just dismiss it as more of the same isn't fair.

I've only tried to defend the film's self-contained pleasures as opposed to that of the genre. I'm not guilty of any form of hypocrisy because I don't like 'Sunshine'. My issue with 'Sunshine' isn't that it's more of the same, it's that it's a total missed opportunity to explore an admittedly glorious genre. There's some terrific stuff in 'Sunshine', but it's a simplistic exploration of incredibly important themes and situations. By the same token, I don't hate the film and I would certaily recommend it with a strong caveat attached. By the same token, I see that you genuinely just don't like 'Superbad' for myriad reasons, so we can just leave it at that.

I saw it just the other night in an early Antonioni film, Le Amiche, which could just about be the most perfect woman's picture ever made--films that take you out of yourself, that make you feel and think (and comedy, when done right, certainly makes you feel and think), that does it with originality and intelligence, that makes the cinematic journey simply spendid. Knocked Up and Superbad, I'm afraid, are just not such films.

Earlier today, I did this amazing thing. I expanded my lungs and let this gas into my system apparently called air. Say what you will about Antonioni, but as far as I'm concerned air is superior.