Web of Sex Scandals
- OscarGuy
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals
Stop comparing Al Franken to Roy Moore.
Roy Moore is a child predator and has been accused by several women.
Al Franken groped two women and has had two dozen (his former staffers and his former SNL colleagues) come forward and say the were never treated with anything but respect.
They are not equivalent. They will never be equivalent. Franken might be a tad bit skeezy at times, but he's not a fucking predator, especially not a CHILD predator.
This has zero to do with politics. Republicans tend to largely defend their predators whereas Dems tend to run them out on a rail. Clinton is not germane to the situation as we are in different clime today than we were two decades ago. It does not excuse what he did, but the two situations are not even remotely similar. Clinton hasn't been a candidate in two decades. Moore IS a candidate and whether you agree with what Clinton did or not, again, the two are NOT the same. Moore is a CHILD PREDATOR. There is no moral equivalence.
Roy Moore is a child predator and has been accused by several women.
Al Franken groped two women and has had two dozen (his former staffers and his former SNL colleagues) come forward and say the were never treated with anything but respect.
They are not equivalent. They will never be equivalent. Franken might be a tad bit skeezy at times, but he's not a fucking predator, especially not a CHILD predator.
This has zero to do with politics. Republicans tend to largely defend their predators whereas Dems tend to run them out on a rail. Clinton is not germane to the situation as we are in different clime today than we were two decades ago. It does not excuse what he did, but the two situations are not even remotely similar. Clinton hasn't been a candidate in two decades. Moore IS a candidate and whether you agree with what Clinton did or not, again, the two are NOT the same. Moore is a CHILD PREDATOR. There is no moral equivalence.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals
As I said before, the charges against Clinton were dismissed because of all the proven false charges against him in other instances. And, again, he isn't running for anything!
I agree that if here are substantial charges against Franken he should e treated the same as any other politician and he should be drummed out of office as quickly as uber liberals Harvey Weinstein and Charlie Rose were dumped, but so far the charges have been more than a little on the silly side. Turn off Fox News!
I agree that if here are substantial charges against Franken he should e treated the same as any other politician and he should be drummed out of office as quickly as uber liberals Harvey Weinstein and Charlie Rose were dumped, but so far the charges have been more than a little on the silly side. Turn off Fox News!
Re: Web of Sex Scandals
It is true that Clinton has not been accused of being a child molester, but has been accused of rape which had been dismissed by a lot of people in the past. An open letter was released in which 30-some-odd women came to Franken's defense saying he's an "upstanding public servant" or to that effect, similar to how those on the political right are saying that Roy Moore should be given the benefit of the doubt because it will the serve conservative cause. It seems like people are willing to dismiss or set aside allegations like this when the person in question agrees with their political ideology. We can't have it both ways. Either everyone accused has to face the music or we all need to step back and let these people defend themselves without judgment until a conclusion can be made about their guilt, and how their actions should be dealt with if that is the case. I don't think it's helpful to say "he may have done something bad but let's overlook that for now to keep that seat in our column," which seems to be happening in both cases.Big Magilla wrote:What did Clinton do that wasn't known twenty years ago? I may be a little fuzzy on the facts, but as I recall, his relationships with those women were consensual. He was neither a predator nor a child molester. The damnable thing about the whole mess was the cover-up. It's a shame that despite all his accomplishments, the quote most of us remember from his days in the White House is "I did not have sex with that woman."criddic3 wrote:Clinton is getting hit on his past again because in the Age of Trump, many people realize how much he got away with simply because of politics. If we're going to go after the Roy Moores of the world and say he shouldn't be a Senator, then we have to be honest about how hypocritical it is to look the other way for other people.
I don't find any evidence of people defending Franken on ideological grounds. No one is saying what he did in the first reported incident was excusable, but it hardly rises to the level of what Moore or Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey or Charlie Rose did. I found the second reported Franken incident silly, but then those old pictures of him grabbing Ariana Huffington surfaced, making me wonder if he really didn't grab that woman by the butt on purpose. Still, it's nothing compared to what those other men did, and in some instances (Weinstein, Spacey) were still doing when the reports surfaced.criddic3 wrote:On the other hand, we now have people rushing to Al Franken and Roy Moore's defense based on ideological grounds.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
Re: Web of Sex Scandals
No, it doesn't necessarily have to do with power, but yes. physical attractiveness doesn't have anything to do with it.
- OscarGuy
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals
It's about power. That's my point. Assault, abuse, rape, and harassment is about power, not about physical attractiveness. My point is that he would have had plenty of offers, meaning that unless he was a Grade A douchebag, he never would have had to assault, or rape, or harass someone. Attractive people who abuse others do it because of power, not because they don't have women (and men) who are readily willing to engage in physical relations with them.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Web of Sex Scandals
This is a truly ridiculous assertion.OscarGuy wrote:Attractive people generally don't have to solicit sex or force others into sex.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
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-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals
Maybe not, and maybe we would've been better off with Al Gore in the White House, but if Clinton "got away with it" it wasn't because of politics. It was because of politics that he was hounded by Ken Starr. He "go away with it" because after all the false charges made against the Clintons by the righteous right, it was difficult to believe that the Paula Jones and Juanita Broderick charges weren't more of the same. The Monica Lewinsky affair and some of the others when he was the Arkansas governor were seen as consensual.dws1982 wrote:When you consider the vast power differential that was at play in the relationship he had with those women, I think it becomes really tough to argue that those relationships could've been consensual.Big Magilla wrote:What did Clinton do that wasn't known twenty years ago? I may be a little fuzzy on the facts, but as I recall, his relationships with those women were consensual.criddic3 wrote:Clinton is getting hit on his past again because in the Age of Trump, many people realize how much he got away with simply because of politics. If we're going to go after the Roy Moores of the world and say he shouldn't be a Senator, then we have to be honest about how hypocritical it is to look the other way for other people.
If all this were coming out now for the first time, it would be seen in a different light, but there's nothing new here. Clinton never bragged about his conquests like Trump did. He's not running for anything and neither is his wife. We should be looking forward, not backward.
Re: Web of Sex Scandals
When you consider the vast power differential that was at play in the relationship he had with those women, I think it becomes really tough to argue that those relationships could've been consensual.Big Magilla wrote:What did Clinton do that wasn't known twenty years ago? I may be a little fuzzy on the facts, but as I recall, his relationships with those women were consensual.criddic3 wrote:Clinton is getting hit on his past again because in the Age of Trump, many people realize how much he got away with simply because of politics. If we're going to go after the Roy Moores of the world and say he shouldn't be a Senator, then we have to be honest about how hypocritical it is to look the other way for other people.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals
Yes, but they do show a propensity for that kind of behavior, which though not damning, do show a pattern that makes these allegations more credible, though again nothing to demand his resignation for - so far, anyway.OscarGuy wrote:Huffington says that the pics that surfaced were for a comedy sketch and that she felt in no way harassed or assaulted by them.
- OscarGuy
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals
Huffington says that the pics that surfaced were for a comedy sketch and that she felt in no way harassed or assaulted by them.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals
What did Clinton do that wasn't known twenty years ago? I may be a little fuzzy on the facts, but as I recall, his relationships with those women were consensual. He was neither a predator nor a child molester. The damnable thing about the whole mess was the cover-up. It's a shame that despite all his accomplishments, the quote most of us remember from his days in the White House is "I did not have sex with that woman."criddic3 wrote:Clinton is getting hit on his past again because in the Age of Trump, many people realize how much he got away with simply because of politics. If we're going to go after the Roy Moores of the world and say he shouldn't be a Senator, then we have to be honest about how hypocritical it is to look the other way for other people.
I don't find any evidence of people defending Franken on ideological grounds. No one is saying what he did in the first reported incident was excusable, but it hardly rises to the level of what Moore or Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey or Charlie Rose did. I found the second reported Franken incident silly, but then those old pictures of him grabbing Ariana Huffington surfaced, making me wonder if he really didn't grab that woman by the butt on purpose. Still, it's nothing compared to what those other men did, and in some instances (Weinstein, Spacey) were still doing when the reports surfaced.criddic3 wrote:On the other hand, we now have people rushing to Al Franken and Roy Moore's defense based on ideological grounds.
Re: Web of Sex Scandals
Another clichè. Really, I don't know how some here get their ideas about this subject, because they seem so unrelated to real life. Anyway, in Italy now the "man-of-the-day", accused by several would-be actresses of having sexually harassed them, is Fausto Brizzi, one of our most popular producers/directors, is (and, especially, was at the time those acts supposedly happened) a rather handsome man.OscarGuy wrote:Attractive people generally don't have to solicit sex or force others into sex.
Re: Web of Sex Scandals
Big Magilla wrote:Exactly. I had to change the channel on Mika Brzezinski this morning. I don't know if I'll ever watch Morning Joe again.Mister Tee wrote:The Charlie Rose allegations -- like the Weinstein ones, and the Jeremy Piven ones -- are really serious, and seemingly broadly enough backed to merit presumption of likely guilt. But they just underscore what weak sauce the Franken accusations are. Yet there are lefties who are ready to toss Al over the side in the name of high purity (much like they once were ready to jettison Shirley Sherrod -- remember her?). They also seem to want to -- I don't know -- designate Bill Clinton an official Bad Guy (for actions that took place before many of them were even following politics)?
It brings to mind the old joke, A liberal is someone so open-minded he refuses to take his own side in an argument.
She went a tirade in support of Kirstin Gillibrand this morning that included her oft given rant that Hillary needs to go away, that Bill Clinton is still making money when he should have been run out of the White House when all those women came forward in the 90s. She had a fit over Trump's tweet that Hillary should run again in 2020, not because Trump was being an asshole (as usual) but because she couldn't take another Hillary run.
Clinton is getting hit on his past again because in the Age of Trump, many people realize how much he got away with simply because of politics. If we're going to go after the Roy Moores of the world and say he shouldn't be a Senator, then we have to be honest about how hypocritical it is to look the other way for other people. I still do believe that context matters and that everyone is entitled to a defense, especially if they really are innocent or if the offense is being blown out of proportion. Yet I think it makes sense that this is happening. When the floodgates opened we saw every kind of allegation, some serious and some less so, that were all a set up for career destruction. On the other hand, we now have people rushing to Al Franken and Roy Moore's defense based on ideological grounds. Trump basically went out in front of the cameras to say Alabamans should vote for Moore so Republicans could hold the seat. I find that kind of mentality to be short-sighted and dismissive of the issues involved here. People are becoming confused and frustrated by the constant news about celebrities and politicians, some of whom have been admired in their fields for a long time. There is good and bad about all of this coming to light, but without clarity about all the facts it's becoming a free-for-all.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
- OscarGuy
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals
Attractive people generally don't have to solicit sex or force others into sex. It's the despicable ones who do. I'd guess that Beatty, as much of a dick I've heard he is, probably had plenty of women throwing themselves at him.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Web of Sex Scandals
Sabin, even with everything so far, it will still be far from everybody. You need to consider Kathleen Turner's line from Prizzi's Honor, "Well, it's not many when you consider the size of the population."
The one person I'm surprised has not been implicated so far is Warren Beatty. Perhaps, he had a very high sex drive and had sex with a lot of women; but, did not have a desire to exert his power by making unwanted advances and only had sex with the many women who wanted to have sex with him.
The one person I'm surprised has not been implicated so far is Warren Beatty. Perhaps, he had a very high sex drive and had sex with a lot of women; but, did not have a desire to exert his power by making unwanted advances and only had sex with the many women who wanted to have sex with him.