Brokeback Mountain

[Penelope]

Ok, Franz and jack, I think I understand, and, based on the reviews and comments from those who have seen the film (as well as Proulx's original story), I think we're safe in that regard. This isn't Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, where the romance is secondary to the endless conversations about the "issue."

[Penelope]

Eric, can't some of us faggots want desparately to see this film simply because it's a chance to see a male-male romantic epic, a Doctor Zhivago or a Random Harvest between two men?

Surely. And I can't deny that this element isn't one of my major sticking points. Titanic aside, I'm not usually much impressed with modern epics.

At best, Brokeback could exorcise Making Love.

Oh, I think it'll exorcise Making Love (and, really, aside from gay men of a certain age and film buffs who know practically every single film ever made, nobody remembers Making Love at all, anyway).

[Franz Ferdinand]

That is my single fear about this movie, and the thing that could doom it: an emphasis on it being a GAY love story.

I'm just curious, how are you defining a film as a GAY love story?

I wish I could give an eloquent response, but I would say: if they rub it in our faces. I'm a little tongue-tied for a response, but if there's a stream throughout the movie that "they are men, look at them", where the filmmakers are preaching, it will just be over-bearing. If there's an overwhelming emphasis on them being two men, specifically, instead of two people in a situation that is not feasable, it would lose its luster. Anyway, it was jack's comment, not mine :laugh: Either way, I'm still excited.

[jack]

That is my single fear about this movie, and the thing that could doom it: an emphasis on it being a GAY love story.

I'm just curious, how are you defining a film as a GAY love story?

That's the point. We don't want to, but it's still a fear.

It should be a love story, plain and simple. My fear, and possibly Franz Ferdinand's (great band, saying) is that it will be emphisised as being a 'Gay' and not a 'Straight' love story... There's no difference between them both, but let's face, Hollywood has never made a proper movie about two lovers who happen to be male...

[Eric]

Eric, can't some of us faggots want desparately to see this film simply because it's a chance to see a male-male romantic epic, a Doctor Zhivago or a Random Harvest between two men?

Surely. And I can't deny that this element isn't one of my major sticking points. Titanic aside, I'm not usually much impressed with modern epics.

At best, Brokeback could exorcise Making Love.

[Penelope]

That is my single fear about this movie, and the thing that could doom it: an emphasis on it being a GAY love story.

I'm just curious, how are you defining a film as a GAY love story?

[Franz Ferdinand]

So I'm curious as to what straight men will think about this movie.

filmgabber, you are pathologically preoccupied with straight men. :;):

I can relate.

If it's played as a love story, then it could be excellent. If they play it as a GAY love story, then no, it won't work... No one walk out of Titanic thinking "My, what a great 'Straight' love story".

Aah, perfect! That is my single fear about this movie, and the thing that could doom it: an emphasis on it being a GAY love story. It doesn't seem like they took that approach from the little I've read/seen so far, but if it turns out they did, oh boy...that will be excruciating. I have faith Ang Lee did a respectful and sensitive job with it. Rob Marshall *shudder* that name just makes me cringe...well said, jack!

[Penelope]

Eric, can't some of us faggots want desparately to see this film simply because it's a chance to see a male-male romantic epic, a Doctor Zhivago or a Random Harvest between two men? Yeah, sure, in this day and age there are plenty of films about gay relationships, but few of them are very good, and those that are good generally tend to be more intimate affairs. Brokeback is different in this regard--and potentially important--precisely because it's a sweeping romantic epic, a Zhivago, a Titanic, but with two men, and romantic longing in the Rocky Mountains standing in for romantic longing on the Russian steppes or romantic longing in the North Atlantic.

I say it's potentially important because, clearly, this film does stand a chance of reaching a far wider audience than any male-male romance ever made. Obviously, many people--fundies, immature and insecure str8 guys--will stay away. But given that the film is already one of the most talked-about films of the year and that it is has begun an impressive roll with precursor awards (who knows how the NY critics will reward--I'm guessing they may go for something more esoteric, like Good Night and Good Luck or The Squid and the Whale; but I expect it to be one the most nominated film at the Golden Globes) so that awareness will increase exponentially. One movie won't change things overnight, but it could very well affect the national discussion of the topic of gay rights--it'll do it gradually, over months and years, and will be but a small part of the discussion.

In the end, all I want is a great film, a well-made romantic epic of the type I've dreamed of for so long (ok, so my fantasy gay romantic epic involved soldiers during World War I, but I digress). If it does manage to effect change in a positive way, well, then, that's just gravy.

[Franz Ferdinand]

I've been with my girlfriend for over four years now, and at worst I'm distantly bi-curious, and I've been extremely excited to see this movie for a long time. I have no idea why: I haven't read the novella, I'm not particularly interested in seeing Jake and Heath acting out their characters' emotions (not that it would bother me to see something like that), and the fact it was filmed very near my area is not a factor. I suppose after being exposed to sympathetic sketches of gay characters in movies and TV (most notably David Fisher on "Six Feet Under"), and not having a problem with a person being gay as long as they're a good person, the movie's subject matter does not make me want to stay away. Friends of mine with their gay bias will likely refuse to see this movie, considering it "two fudgerunner cowboys" instead of "two people unable to be together". It always makes me feel bad when people say "oh, the gay cowboy movie?" instead of "oh, the love story?" Maybe I feel guilty? Who knows.

I suppose the reason I'm excited is that I want to see how the subject matter is treated. It seems like a terrific movie, of a forbidden love that is not uncommon, but hasn't had much attention before. I have always enjoyed watching love stories on screen (call me a sucker, but I still think Titanic's love story was heartbreaking, being the hopeless romantic teen I was when I saw it four times in the theatres), and I think BM's concept, if done right (with every foreword affirming this), could make for an emotionally satisfying and wonderful movie. I have faith that Ang Lee can make magic with this story, the acting (again affirmed) will be terrific, and the story captivating.

I have no idea what I just wrote, I'm mumbling and trying to organize my thoughts. But bottom line: very excited to see it, and I'm rooting for it with the awards and public recognition. If it creates more public acceptance and understanding, I'm all for it. We are all, after all, the same beings.

[jack]

So I'm curious as to what straight men will think about this movie.

filmgabber, you are pathologically preoccupied with straight men. :;):

I can relate.

The book, or short story, whatever way you look at it, was good. Not great, but good.

I'm a straight, married man, with a child on the way, and think this could be a good movie. My only concern is that the filmmakers don't hammer home the idea that its two guys in love.

The one saving grace for me is Ang Lee - a great choice to make this movie. Imagine for a second Rob Marshall or Bill Condon directing? It would be crap.

I'll go and see it, because it's a good story, and do like Ang Lee films.

If it's played as a love story, then it could be excellent. If they play it as a GAY love story, then no, it won't work... No one walk out of Titanic thinking "My, what a great 'Straight' love story".

Take my comments for what you like.................

[filmgabber]

Eric, you hit on something very interesting and a separate can of worms that I was hoping would be opened.

I know a few "straight openminded" friends who can't wait to see "Brokeback Mountain". I remember them asking me since summertime when it was going to open, and that we should get a big group of friends together to go see it.

For gay men, "Brokeback Mountain" might just be the most anticipated movie of the year. Besides the subject matter, you have two hot Hollywood stars and a director who we've been fond of since "The Wedding Banquet".

My point is...I KNOW why I'M excited to see this movie. But why, with "King Kong" and "Narnia" out there, are your friends and my friends so frickin' excited to see "Brokeback Mountain"?! Is it truly the buzz, or is it that this could possibly be the first gay-themed film with substantial credibility and mainstream attention that all those "curious" men out there see as a chance to make their first move? There's a big difference between going to a gay bar for the first time and seeing a nationally, critically-praised film that "just so happens" to be gay-themed.

[Eric]

So I'm curious as to what straight men will think about this movie.

filmgabber, you are pathologically preoccupied with straight men. :;):

I can relate.

[Eric]

(risking being labelled the self-loathing, neo-criddic:)

Changed the way people think? Jayzus. The level of presumptuousness surrounding this film has hit the effing stratosphere. I daresay I almost empathize with that stereotypical "openminded straight" (for instance, Sarah Jessica Parker in The Family Stone) who will, in a fit of pique, snap "gay this, gay that, does everything have to be gay with you?!" See the way waaaay underground documentary [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0210127/com ... MDB8Y289MX


xodG1sPTF8bm09MQ__;fc=1;ft=20]Could Be Worse[/url] for a demonstration of this phenomenon.

I bet the farm on this being a nice, harmless but unquestionably minor film. That said, I plan on seeing it with a bisexual (but more straight than gay, imo) friend of mine who, tellingly, is far more excited to see it than am I.

I won't know for sure until I see it, but I do have to wonder what's more or less unified the gay cognoscenti-cinephile contingent against this film. (Oh, alright. For the benefit of Italiano: "the gay cognoscenti-cinephile 'MERICAN contingent.")

[filmgabber]

No, I meant for anyone who hasn't personally been exposed to a gay relationship.

I must say, and you other gay boys on this site feel free to chime in, but I actually feel a little giddy about how straight audiences, primarily men, are going to approach seeing this film. Will they tell their girlfriends, "Hey, let's check out that new Jake Gyllenhaal flick", or will they wait for their girlfriends to suggest seeing it first?

For straight guys living in progressive areas, like where I live, it may not be such a big deal to find the next showing of "Brokeback Mountain" and go by themselves. But I'm thinking about those places where it may not be so cool to do that.

I remember when friends of mine, a young married couple, saw "Y Tu Mama Tambien" and afterwards Jamie (the girl) said, "I think Jim (the guy) enjoyed that final sex scene too much. But I'd rather have him like it and be turned on by it than to be repulsed by it". And I asked Jim, "did that scene really turn you on?" He said, "Yeah, I've never seen two guys kiss each other before and I thought it was hot".

So I'm curious as to what straight men will think about this movie. I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know if there are any risque scenes in it. There are people out there, like my brother, that are okay with gay-themed films, but fast forward or look away at any love scenes.

[Sonic Youth]

You mean, one has to be gay to have been exposed to gay relationships?

I've had plenty of exposure, including my cousin who lived with the same man for decades until he died. I've never been in a gay relationship. But doesn't that count?