New Developments III

[Big Magilla]

“Pennsylvania elected officials passed a whole new law that allows universal mail-in balloting, and did it irregardless of what the Pennsylvania Constitution said.”
— Senator Josh Hawley, Republican of Missouri - this is a Stanford and Harvard grad?

[Big Magilla]

But you don't need 2/3rds vote for removal. The amendment just needs to be invoked and then he's stripped of his powers.

They are required to vote within 21 days of the action having been taken. You're assuming that since he doesn't have 21 days left, they will simply hold off the vote until his time runs out. One hopes that if they do invoke it, that is what will happen.

This is the applicable law:

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department[note 1] or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

[Sonic Youth]

But you don't need 2/3rds vote for removal. The amendment just needs to be invoked and then he's stripped of his powers.

[OscarGuy]

We've seen far too many straws that should have broken the camel's back, we're stuck with the donkey paradigm. Rather than the donkey shaking off the dirt and stomping it down so he rises out of the pit, the camel has been buried beneath a pile of straw and has no way of freeing itself.

Sure, we would all love to see Trump become the first president in history to be impeached twice.

Sure, it would be nice for him to be removed from office.

Yet, you still cannot convince me that with so many Republicans willing to tote the president's water up to now and then showing their "concern" when they get their hands caught in the cookie jar that they will suddenly become turncoats. They know that without the Trump vote and no power to rig elections further in their favor, possibly even finding their existing rigging ripped out from under them, that they can ever emerge from this wilderness.

We all know that the way to rebuild is to slough off the dead skin that are the Trumpkins and religious fanatics that have overtaken the party and then make themselves a party that is truly only concerned with fiscal issues and completely ignoring the social wedge issues. It ain't going to work anytime soon because the politics of fear is the only thing that has kept the GOP going for three decades now.

[Big Magilla]

The 25th amendment requires the concurrence of the Vice President plus two-thirds of the cabinet. If the president objects, a two-thirds vote of both the Senate and the House is required to remove him from office. Impeachment would be easier.

[Sabin]

THE TWENTY-FIFTH AMENDMENT, ON THE OTHER HAND...

https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/134 ... gr%5Etweet


NOTE:
Now this I have an easier time believing for really one simple reason. Mike Pence wants to be the President. All he needed to do was stay in Trump's good graces so he could be accepted by Trump's base if he needed to run in the future or if anything happened to Trump (and a lot of things could have). Up until two months ago, that plan worked perfectly. It really did seem like Mike Pence was largely embraced by GOP voters and Trump's ardent supporters. But that over now. Now, Pence is a disloyal traitor who won't help him overturn the election AND other GOP members of the Senate are completely on board with overturning the election which positions them to be simultaneously the future of the GOP and Trump loyalists. Mike Pence's chances of winning a GOP primary (and the Presidency) have seriously dropped in the last week and I'll bet he knows it.

So, here's my question: if I was Mike Pence and I knew that my plan was just shot to shit before my eyes, why wouldn't I invoke the 25th Amendment? His political career is probably over. Nobody really goes on from the Vice Presidency to, like, do any other jobs besides President, right? You get a Presidential pension of what, $250K/year for the rest of your life. Secret service protection which you will now need. Two weeks to pass whatever evil shit you want. Write a book. Tour the planet. And largely be regarded as performing an act of civic bravery that defines you for the rest of your life as President oof the United States for two weeks. That can never be taken away from him.

And in my heart... I know it's not going to happen because of who this spineless twit is and because of who all of these spineless twits are.

[Sabin]

Sonic Youth wrote
You've seen how many people are abandoning him, yes?

Define "abandoning."

He lost them the election by 7 million votes. He lost them the Senate. He's going to be gone in two weeks. And only some of them are still on board to challenge the validity of the election results.

Seriously, is this how far the bar has dropped? A friend shared me Rand Paul's tweet where he condemned the riots and came out against challenging the election. That doesn't mean he's going to do anything to get rid of the asshole.

[Sonic Youth]

Well, let's see what happens tonight, and if there are still objections to certifying the electoral vote, or if there are still any senators signatures on those damn things. Things may have changed in the interim.

You've seen how many people are abandoning him, yes?

[Okri]

I share Sabin's pessimism.

[Sabin]

Hope you're right.

By the way, I'd really love to hear why I'm wrong.

[Sonic Youth]

Sonic Youth wrote

OscarGuy wrote
He still won't be removed,

I'm not so sure.

How many times have we written out: "This is when the Republicans turn on him." This is the turning point." "This is the bridge too far."

Here's another question. Will Republican Primary voters turn on Trump? Significantly? We have sitting Republican Senators objecting to certification of Electoral College votes, including Josh Hawley whom I do not like but I thought was at least a rational individual. Why? Because they all recognize that the inmates are now in charge of the asylum. Anyone who wants an immediate future in Republican politics must be in some capacity Pro-Trump. Does anyone think after the events of the day that Ted Cruz (OR WHOMEVER) will go from "I am using a known stolen election as a precedent for my committee." to "You know what? On second thought, this is a bridge too far for me. I'm going to vote to impeach and remove." Really?

Yes.

[Sabin]

Sonic Youth wrote

OscarGuy wrote
He still won't be removed,

I'm not so sure.

How many times have we written out: "This is when the Republicans turn on him." This is the turning point." "This is the bridge too far."

Here's another question. Will Republican Primary voters turn on Trump? Significantly? We have sitting Republican Senators objecting to certification of Electoral College votes, including Josh Hawley whom I do not like but I thought was at least a rational individual. Why? Because they all recognize that the inmates are now in charge of the asylum. Anyone who wants an immediate future in Republican politics must be in some capacity Pro-Trump. Does anyone think after the events of the day that Ted Cruz (OR WHOMEVER) will go from "I am using a known stolen election as a precedent for my committee." to "You know what? On second thought, this is a bridge too far for me. I'm going to vote to impeach and remove." Really? This is the phone call and this is the riot that gets Republicans to stop caring about their voters and start caring about their country?

We might get (again) Collins, Murkowski, and Romney but we won't get -- I can't believe we're doing this dance again -- sixteen Republican Senators to turn on Donald Trump.

All it takes is one Antifa appearance and get ready for America's favorite game show: "Bad People on Both Sides!"

Mister Tee wrote
This is full-on insurrection, clearly egged on by the president as recently as a few hours ago. Dems have paid for decades for the anti-war left of 1968 (most of whom weren't even Democrats). The Republican party will bear this stain for years to come.

I agree with this statement. Here is my question: adjusted for inflation, how many millions of anti-war left were out there in 1968 vs. Trump's cult? Did they have a 24/7 media arm Jinning up their outrage? Let's say The Republican Party bears this stain for years to come. Does that mean they lose?

[Franz Ferdinand]

We in Canada are watching in disdain and are hoping for the best!

[Mister Tee]

He still won't be removed,

I'm not so sure.

Me either. The next 24 hours will have to see Trump do a 180, or impeachment/removal becomes an imperative. His tweet in the past hour doesn't suggest the first is likely.

[Sonic Youth]

He still won't be removed,

I'm not so sure.

ETA: I'll go further. I think he's gone by the end of the week, maybe tomorrow.