LOL!
Giuliani quit Iraq panel after missed meetings - but he had time for fundraising
BY CRAIG GORDON
Newsday
Giuliani failed to show up for a pair of two-day sessions that occurred during his tenure, the sources said - and both times, they conflicted with paid public appearances shown on his recent financial disclosure. Giuliani quit the group during his busiest stretch in 2006, when he gave 20 speeches in a single month that brought in $1.7 million.
On one day the panel gathered in Washington - May 18, 2006 - Giuliani delivered a $100,000 speech on leadership at an Atlanta business awards breakfast. Later that day, he attended a $100-a-ticket Atlanta political fundraiser for conservative ally Ralph Reed, whom Giuliani hoped would provide a major boost to his presidential campaign.
The month before, Giuliani skipped the session to give the April 12 keynote speech at an economic conference in South Korea for $200,000, his financial disclosure shows.
Giuliani's campaign said that the former New York mayor did participate in Iraq Study Group activities but refused Newsday's repeated requests to explain how.
[Hah hah hah hah hah!!]
Instead, they referred to a May 24, 2006, letter Giuliani sent to the Republican co-chairman and former secretary of state James Baker. In it, Giuliani praised the group's "truly important mission" but cited his time commitments for why he couldn't give the group "the full and active participation" it deserved.
One source familiar with the group's activities recalled that Giuliani did participate in an early conference call in spring 2006 that was mainly organizational. But Giuliani's name is mentioned nowhere in the group's final report, which lists more than 160 people who were consulted.
By giving up his seat on the panel, Giuliani has opened himself up to charges that he chose private-sector paydays and politics over unpaid service on a critical issue facing the nation.
Not only that, but the 10-member group - also called the Baker-Hamilton commission - was no ordinary blue-ribbon panel, instead chartered by Congress and encouraged by the president to find a way forward in Iraq.
Giuliani's move already has come under attack by Democrats, and outside experts say it shines a light on his priorities at the time.
"Missing one meeting, you could put it down to staff error, but when you're missing them consistently, your priorities have been indicated, and the staff knows when there's a choice, you go on the road and pick up some bucks," said Kent Cooper, co-founder of Political Money Line, which tracks money in politics.
The Iraq Study Group held nine official meetings, which it called "plenary sessions," according to its final report. They included three that occurred during Giuliani's tenure in 2006 but that he did not show up for, the sources said - working sessions on April 11 and 12, and May 18 and 19. There was also a kickoff event on March 15 that Giuliani and several other members did not attend, the sources said.
By quitting the panel, Giuliani also passed up a chance to fill another big gap in his commander-in-chief credentials - Giuliani said recently he's never been to Iraq, unlike his top declared GOP rivals and several in the Democratic field. Baker and Democratic co-chairman, former Rep. Lee Hamilton, led a four-day Iraq trip last summer.
Giuliani has faced questions of why he hasn't been to Iraq despite being an enthusiastic supporter of the Iraq war. He has said a planned trip was scuttled for reasons he didn't specify but that he hopes to go by year's end.
Pentagon officials said they are not aware of a request by Giuliani to travel to Iraq and that it could be somewhat difficult to achieve at this late date.
When Giuliani failed to attend the first two working sessions, his absences didn't sit well with Baker - particularly when the other luminaries who made up the panel were able to make the sessions in Washington, some sources said. Baker's policy assistant John Williams said the choice to quit was entirely Giuliani's.
"Baker felt that it was important for future meetings that people show up, so that left the decision on Giuliani whether he would make it or not," Williams said. He provided a copy of Giuliani's letter to Baker and declined further comment. Former U.S. attorney general Edwin Meese III replaced Giuliani on the 10-member panel a week later.
President George W. Bush was initially cool to the group's December recommendations, which included a goal of pulling out most U.S. combat troops by early 2008 and beginning unconditional talks with Iran and Syria, but lately he has moved to embrace some of them.
At least one Democratic member of the group questioned Giuliani's decision to quit. "It would have better served him politically to be a part of the group, because every candidate needs an answer to the question - what the hell would you do in Iraq?" said Leon Panetta, a former chief of staff to President Bill Clinton.
Three other Democratic members refused to comment, and former Wyoming Sen. Alan Simpson, a Republican member of the panel, didn't recall that Giuliani had been picked. Asked if he thought Giuliani would have benefited from staying on the panel, Simpson said, "You'd have to ask Rudy that."
Stephen Hess, who has served as an adviser to presidents from both parties, said quitting the group is likely to pose a political problem for Giuliani. "Leaving that study group was not exactly an act of courage," said Hess, particularly because the group's recommendations ultimately diverged from Bush's stick-it-out approach, which Giuliani has embraced.
When the group's report came out last December, Giuliani offered a different reason why he quit, saying he didn't think it was right for an active presidential candidate to take part in such an "apolitical" panel. Giuliani also took pains at the time to distance himself from some of the group's findings.
At some point, Baker spoke to Giuliani to find out if he intended to continue his involvement with the group. "He [Baker] basically said, if people can't make the meetings, we've got to find people who can," Panetta recalled.
Asked if he knew what Giuliani was doing instead of attending the meetings, Panetta joked, "I'm sure making a hell of a lot of money."
President Giuliani 2008? Wake me when it's over! - why do you guys think?
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From Rolling Stone:
GIULIANI: WORSE THAN BUSH
He's cashing in on 9/11, working with Karl Rove's henchmen and in cahoots with a Swift Boat-style attack on Hillary. Will Rudy Giuliani be Bush III?
by Matt Taibbi
Early Wednesday, May 16th, Charleston, South Carolina. The scene is a town-hall meeting staged by GOP presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani, only a day after he wowed a patriotic Republican crowd at a nationally televised debate with a righteous ass-kicking of the party's latest Hanoi Jane, terrorist sympathizer Ron Paul. A bump in the polls later, "America's Mayor" is back on the campaign trail -- in a room packed with standard-issue Adorable Schoolchildren, in this case beatific black kids in elementary school uniforms with wide eyes and big RUDY stickers pinned to their oblivious breasts.
Giuliani has good stage presence, but his physical appearance is problematic -- virtually neckless, all shoulders and forehead and overbite, with a hunched-over, Draculoid posture that recalls, oddly enough, George W. Bush, the vestigial stoop of a once-chubby kid who grew up hiding tittie pictures from nuns. Not handsome, not cuddly, if he wins this thing it's going to be by projecting toughness and man-aura. But all presidential candidates have to play the baby-kissing game, and here is an early chance for Rudy to show his softer side.
"So," he whispers to the kids. "What do you all want to be when you grow up? Do any of you know?"
A bucktoothed boy raises his hand.
"I wanna be a doctor," he says, "and a lawyer."
The crowd laughs, then looks at Rudy expectantly. The obvious line is "A doctor and a lawyer? Whaddya want to do, sue yourself?" and you can see Rudy physically straining for the joke. But this candidate's funny bone is a microscopic thing, like one of those anvil-shaped deals in the ear, and the line eludes him.
"A doctor and a lawyer, huh?" he says, grinning nervously. "Uh . . . whaddya want to do, sue the doctor?"
My notes from that moment read: Chirping crickets.
Rudy moves on. "How about you?" he says to the next boy.
"I want to be a policeman!" the kid says.
Rudy smiles. Then the next boy says he wants to be a fireman, and the crowd twitters: Wow, a fireman and a policeman, in the same room! Rudy is beaming now, almost certainly aware that every grown-up present is suddenly thinking about 9/11. His day. As he leans over, the room is filled with popping flashbulbs. Then, instead of capitalizing on the sense of pride and shared purpose everyone is feeling, Giuliani utters something truly strange and twisted.
"A fireman and a policeman, huh?" he says. "Well, the first thing that I want to do is make sure that you two get along."
Huh? Amid confused applause, Rudy flashes a queer smile, then moves on to the heart of his presentation, a neat little speech about how the election of a Democratic president will result in certain nuclear attack and the end of the free market as we know it. I'm barely listening, however, still thinking about the "make sure you get along" line.
Although few people outside of New York know it yet, there is an emerging controversy over Giuliani's heroic 9/11 legacy. Critics charge that Rudy's failure to resolve the feuding between the city's police and firefighters prior to the attack led to untold numbers of deaths, the most tragic example being the inability of firemen to hear warnings from police helicopters about the impending collapse of the South Tower. The 9/11 Commission concluded that the two departments had been "designed to work independently, not together," and that greater coordination would have spared many lives.
Given all that, why did Rudy offer this weirdly unsolicited reference to the controversy now? Was he joking? And if so, what the fuck? It was a strange and bitter comment to make, especially right on the heels of his grand-slam performance in the previous night's debate. If this is a guy who chews over a perceived slight in the middle of a victory lap, what's he going to be like with his finger on the button? Even Richard Nixon wasn't wound that tight.
Rudy Giuliani is a true American hero, and we know this because he does all the things we expect of heroes these days -- like make $16 million a year, and lobby for Hugo Chávez and Rupert Murdoch, and promote wars without ever having served in the military, and hire a lawyer to call his second wife a "stuck pig," and organize absurd, grandstanding pogroms against minor foreign artists, and generally drift through life being a shameless opportunist with an outsize ego who doesn't even bother to conceal the fact that he's had a hard-on for the presidency since he was in diapers. In the media age, we can't have a hero humble enough to actually be one; what is needed is a tireless scoundrel, a cad willing to pose all day long for photos, who'll accept $100,000 to talk about heroism for an hour, who has the balls to take a $2.7 million advance to write a book about himself called Leadership. That's Rudy Giuliani. Our hero. And a perfect choice to uphold the legacy of George W. Bush.
Yes, Rudy is smarter than Bush. But his political strength -- and he knows it -- comes from America's unrelenting passion for never bothering to take that extra step to figure shit out. If you think you know it all already, Rudy agrees with you. And if anyone tries to tell you differently, they're probably traitors, and Rudy, well, he'll keep an eye on 'em for you. Just like Bush, Rudy appeals to the couch-bound bully in all of us, and part of the allure of his campaign is the promise to put the Pentagon and the power of the White House at that bully's disposal.
Rudy's attack against Ron Paul in the debate was a classic example of that kind of politics, a Rovian masterstroke. The wizened Paul, a grandfather seventeen times over who is running for the Republican nomination at least 100 years too late, was making a simple isolationist argument, suggesting that our lengthy involvement in Middle Eastern affairs -- in particular our bombing of Iraq in the 1990s -- was part of the terrorists' rationale in attacking us.
Though a controversial statement for a Republican politician to make, it was hardly refutable from a factual standpoint -- after all, Osama bin Laden himself cited America's treatment of Iraq in his 1996 declaration of war. Giuliani surely knew this, but he jumped all over Paul anyway, demanding that Paul take his comment back. "I don't think I've ever heard that before," he hissed, "and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th."
It was like the new convict who comes into prison the first day and punches the weakest guy in the cafeteria in the teeth, and the Southern crowd exploded in raucous applause. Coupled with yet another implosion by aneurysm-in-waiting John McCain a few days later ("Fuck you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room!" McCain screamed at a fellow senator during a meeting about immigration), the Ron Paul ass-whipping revived Giuliani's standing among conservatives who lately had begun to abandon him over his pro-choice status.
The Paul incident went to the very heart of who Giuliani is as a politician. To the extent that conservatism in the Bush years has morphed into a celebration of mindless patriotism and the paranoid witch-hunting of liberals and other dissenters, Rudy seems the most anxious of any Republican candidate to take up that mantle. Like Bush, Rudy has repeatedly shown that he has no problem lumping his enemies in with "the terrorists" if that's what it takes to get over. When the 9/11 Commission raised criticisms of his fire department, for instance, Giuliani put the bipartisan panel in its place for daring to question his leadership. "Our anger," he declared, "should clearly be directed at one source and one source alone -- the terrorists who killed our loved ones."
Whether Rudy believes in this kind of politics reflexively, as the psychologically crippled Bush does, or as a means to an end, as Karl Rove does, isn't clear. But there's no question that Giuliani has made the continuation of Swift-Boating politics a linchpin of his candidacy. His political hires speak deeply to that tendency. Chris Henick, formerly Karl Rove's most trusted deputy, is now a key aide at Giuliani Partners, the security firm set up by the mayor to cash in on his 9/11 image. One of his top donors, Richard Collins, is a longtime Bush supporter who was instrumental in setting up "Stop Her Now," a 527 group modeled on Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that will be used to attack Hillary Clinton. And the money for the smear campaign comes from the same Texas sources behind the Swift Boaters, including oilman T. Boone Pickens and Houston home builder Bob Perry.
To further emulate the Bush-Rove model, Giuliani has recruited some thirty Bush "Pioneers," the key fund-raisers who served as the president's $100,000 bagmen. In addition, he hired the woman who spearheaded the Pioneer program to be his chief fund-raiser. "Rudy definitely got some of Bush's heavier hitters, including all the Swift Boater types," says Alex Cohen, a senior researcher at Public Citizen, who tracks the president's top donors.
Rudy's stump speech on the trail these days is short and sweet. He talks about two things -- national security and free-market capitalism -- and his catchphrase for both is "going on offense." When he talks about "economic offense," Giuliani is ostensibly communicating the usual conservative contempt for taxes and big government. But he means more than that. Like the Bush-Cheney crew, Rudy believes everything should be for sale, even public policy -- particularly when he's in a position to do the selling.
In his years as mayor -- and his subsequent career as a lobbyist -- Rudy jumped into bed with anyone who could afford a rubber. Saudi Arabia, Rupert Murdoch, tobacco interests, pharmaceutical companies, private prisons, Bechtel, ChevronTexaco -- Giuliani took money from them all. You could change Rudy's mind literally in the time it took to write a check. A former prosecutor, Giuliani used to call drug dealers "murderers." But as a lobbyist he agreed to represent Seisint, a security firm run by former cocaine smuggler Hank Asher. "I have a great admiration for what he's doing," Rudy gushed after taking $2 million of Asher's money.
As mayor, Rudy had a history of asking financially interested parties to help shape important government policies. At one point, he allowed a deputy mayor who was on the payroll of Major League Baseball to work on deals for the Yankees and Mets; at another point he commissioned a $600,000 report on privatizing JFK and LaGuardia from a consultant with ties to the British Airport Authority, Rudy's handpicked choice to manage the airports.
And let's not forget Bernie Kerik, Rudy's very own hairy-assed Sancho Panza, who was nixed as director of Homeland Security after investigators uncovered a gift he received from a construction firm with alleged mob ties that wanted to do business with Giuliani's administration. It is a testament to the monstrous breadth of Rudy's chutzpah that he used his post-9/11 celebrity to push his personal bagman for a post that milks the world's hugest security-contracts tit -- at the very moment when he himself was creating a security-services company.
Then there's 9/11. Like Bush's, Rudy's career before the bombing was in the toilet; New Yorkers had come to think of him as an ambition-sick meanie whose personal scandals were truly wearying to think about. But on the day of the attack, it must be admitted, Rudy hit the perfect note; he displayed all the strength and reassuring calm that Bush did not, and for one day at least, he was everything you'd want in a leader. Then he woke up the next day and the opportunist in him saw that there was money to be made in an America high on fear.
For starters, Rudy tried to use the tragedy to shred election rules, pushing to postpone the inauguration of his successor so he could hog the limelight for a few more months. Then, with the dust from the World Trade Center barely settled, he went on the road as the Man With the Bullhorn, pocketing as much as $200,000 for a single speaking engagement. In 2002 he reported $8 million in speaking income; this past year it was more than $11 million. He's traveled in style, at one stop last year requesting a $47,000 flight on a private jet, five hotel rooms and a private suite with a balcony view and a king-size bed.
While the mayor himself flew out of New York on a magic carpet, thousands of cash-strapped cops, firemen and city workers involved with the cleanup at the World Trade Center were developing cancers and infections and mysterious respiratory ailments like the "WTC cough." This is the dirty little secret lurking underneath Rudy's 9/11 hero image -- the most egregious example of his willingness to shape public policy to suit his donors. While the cleanup effort at the Pentagon was turned over to federal agencies like OSHA, which quickly sealed off the site and required relief workers to wear hazmat suits, the World Trade Center cleanup was handed over to Giuliani. The city's Department of Design and Construction (DDC) promptly farmed out the waste-clearing effort to a smattering of politically connected companies, including Bechtel, Bovis and AMEC construction.
The mayor pledged to reopen downtown in no time, and internal DDC memos indicate that the cleanup was directed at a breakneck pace. One memo to DDC chief Michael Burton warned, "Project management appears to only address safety issues when convenient for the schedule of the project." Burton, however, had his own priorities: He threatened to fire contractors if "the highest level of efficiency is not maintained."
Although respiratory-mask use was mandatory, the city allowed a macho culture to develop on the site: Even the mayor himself showed up without a mask. By October, it was estimated, masks were being worn on site as little as twenty-nine percent of the time. Rudy proclaimed that there were "no significant problems" with the air at the World Trade Center. But there was something wrong with the air: It was one of the most dangerous toxic-waste sites in human history, full of everything from benzene to asbestos and PCBs to dioxin (the active ingredient in Agent Orange). Since the cleanup ended, police and firefighters have reported a host of serious illnesses -- respiratory ailments like sarcoidosis; leukemia and lymphoma and other cancers; and immune-system problems.
"The likelihood is that more people will eventually die from the cleanup than from the original accident," says David Worby, an attorney representing thousands of cleanup workers in a class-action lawsuit against the city. "Giuliani wears 9/11 like a badge of honor, but he screwed up so badly."
When I first spoke to Worby, he was on his way home from the funeral of a cop. "One thing about Giuliani," he told me. "He's never been to a funeral of a cleanup worker."
Indeed, Rudy has had little at all to say about the issue. About the only move he's made to address the problem was to write a letter urging Congress to pass a law capping the city's liability at $350 million.
Did Giuliani know the air at the World Trade Center was poison? Who knows -- but we do know he took over the cleanup, refusing to let more experienced federal agencies run the show. He stood on a few brick piles on the day of the bombing, then spent the next ten months making damn sure everyone worked the night shift on-site while he bonked his mistress and negotiated his gazillion-dollar move to the private sector. Meanwhile, the people who actually cleaned up the rubble got used to checking their stool for blood every morning.
Now Giuliani is running for president -- as the hero of 9/11. George Bush has balls, too, but even he has to bow to this motherfucker.
GIULIANI: WORSE THAN BUSH
He's cashing in on 9/11, working with Karl Rove's henchmen and in cahoots with a Swift Boat-style attack on Hillary. Will Rudy Giuliani be Bush III?
by Matt Taibbi
Early Wednesday, May 16th, Charleston, South Carolina. The scene is a town-hall meeting staged by GOP presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani, only a day after he wowed a patriotic Republican crowd at a nationally televised debate with a righteous ass-kicking of the party's latest Hanoi Jane, terrorist sympathizer Ron Paul. A bump in the polls later, "America's Mayor" is back on the campaign trail -- in a room packed with standard-issue Adorable Schoolchildren, in this case beatific black kids in elementary school uniforms with wide eyes and big RUDY stickers pinned to their oblivious breasts.
Giuliani has good stage presence, but his physical appearance is problematic -- virtually neckless, all shoulders and forehead and overbite, with a hunched-over, Draculoid posture that recalls, oddly enough, George W. Bush, the vestigial stoop of a once-chubby kid who grew up hiding tittie pictures from nuns. Not handsome, not cuddly, if he wins this thing it's going to be by projecting toughness and man-aura. But all presidential candidates have to play the baby-kissing game, and here is an early chance for Rudy to show his softer side.
"So," he whispers to the kids. "What do you all want to be when you grow up? Do any of you know?"
A bucktoothed boy raises his hand.
"I wanna be a doctor," he says, "and a lawyer."
The crowd laughs, then looks at Rudy expectantly. The obvious line is "A doctor and a lawyer? Whaddya want to do, sue yourself?" and you can see Rudy physically straining for the joke. But this candidate's funny bone is a microscopic thing, like one of those anvil-shaped deals in the ear, and the line eludes him.
"A doctor and a lawyer, huh?" he says, grinning nervously. "Uh . . . whaddya want to do, sue the doctor?"
My notes from that moment read: Chirping crickets.
Rudy moves on. "How about you?" he says to the next boy.
"I want to be a policeman!" the kid says.
Rudy smiles. Then the next boy says he wants to be a fireman, and the crowd twitters: Wow, a fireman and a policeman, in the same room! Rudy is beaming now, almost certainly aware that every grown-up present is suddenly thinking about 9/11. His day. As he leans over, the room is filled with popping flashbulbs. Then, instead of capitalizing on the sense of pride and shared purpose everyone is feeling, Giuliani utters something truly strange and twisted.
"A fireman and a policeman, huh?" he says. "Well, the first thing that I want to do is make sure that you two get along."
Huh? Amid confused applause, Rudy flashes a queer smile, then moves on to the heart of his presentation, a neat little speech about how the election of a Democratic president will result in certain nuclear attack and the end of the free market as we know it. I'm barely listening, however, still thinking about the "make sure you get along" line.
Although few people outside of New York know it yet, there is an emerging controversy over Giuliani's heroic 9/11 legacy. Critics charge that Rudy's failure to resolve the feuding between the city's police and firefighters prior to the attack led to untold numbers of deaths, the most tragic example being the inability of firemen to hear warnings from police helicopters about the impending collapse of the South Tower. The 9/11 Commission concluded that the two departments had been "designed to work independently, not together," and that greater coordination would have spared many lives.
Given all that, why did Rudy offer this weirdly unsolicited reference to the controversy now? Was he joking? And if so, what the fuck? It was a strange and bitter comment to make, especially right on the heels of his grand-slam performance in the previous night's debate. If this is a guy who chews over a perceived slight in the middle of a victory lap, what's he going to be like with his finger on the button? Even Richard Nixon wasn't wound that tight.
Rudy Giuliani is a true American hero, and we know this because he does all the things we expect of heroes these days -- like make $16 million a year, and lobby for Hugo Chávez and Rupert Murdoch, and promote wars without ever having served in the military, and hire a lawyer to call his second wife a "stuck pig," and organize absurd, grandstanding pogroms against minor foreign artists, and generally drift through life being a shameless opportunist with an outsize ego who doesn't even bother to conceal the fact that he's had a hard-on for the presidency since he was in diapers. In the media age, we can't have a hero humble enough to actually be one; what is needed is a tireless scoundrel, a cad willing to pose all day long for photos, who'll accept $100,000 to talk about heroism for an hour, who has the balls to take a $2.7 million advance to write a book about himself called Leadership. That's Rudy Giuliani. Our hero. And a perfect choice to uphold the legacy of George W. Bush.
Yes, Rudy is smarter than Bush. But his political strength -- and he knows it -- comes from America's unrelenting passion for never bothering to take that extra step to figure shit out. If you think you know it all already, Rudy agrees with you. And if anyone tries to tell you differently, they're probably traitors, and Rudy, well, he'll keep an eye on 'em for you. Just like Bush, Rudy appeals to the couch-bound bully in all of us, and part of the allure of his campaign is the promise to put the Pentagon and the power of the White House at that bully's disposal.
Rudy's attack against Ron Paul in the debate was a classic example of that kind of politics, a Rovian masterstroke. The wizened Paul, a grandfather seventeen times over who is running for the Republican nomination at least 100 years too late, was making a simple isolationist argument, suggesting that our lengthy involvement in Middle Eastern affairs -- in particular our bombing of Iraq in the 1990s -- was part of the terrorists' rationale in attacking us.
Though a controversial statement for a Republican politician to make, it was hardly refutable from a factual standpoint -- after all, Osama bin Laden himself cited America's treatment of Iraq in his 1996 declaration of war. Giuliani surely knew this, but he jumped all over Paul anyway, demanding that Paul take his comment back. "I don't think I've ever heard that before," he hissed, "and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th."
It was like the new convict who comes into prison the first day and punches the weakest guy in the cafeteria in the teeth, and the Southern crowd exploded in raucous applause. Coupled with yet another implosion by aneurysm-in-waiting John McCain a few days later ("Fuck you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room!" McCain screamed at a fellow senator during a meeting about immigration), the Ron Paul ass-whipping revived Giuliani's standing among conservatives who lately had begun to abandon him over his pro-choice status.
The Paul incident went to the very heart of who Giuliani is as a politician. To the extent that conservatism in the Bush years has morphed into a celebration of mindless patriotism and the paranoid witch-hunting of liberals and other dissenters, Rudy seems the most anxious of any Republican candidate to take up that mantle. Like Bush, Rudy has repeatedly shown that he has no problem lumping his enemies in with "the terrorists" if that's what it takes to get over. When the 9/11 Commission raised criticisms of his fire department, for instance, Giuliani put the bipartisan panel in its place for daring to question his leadership. "Our anger," he declared, "should clearly be directed at one source and one source alone -- the terrorists who killed our loved ones."
Whether Rudy believes in this kind of politics reflexively, as the psychologically crippled Bush does, or as a means to an end, as Karl Rove does, isn't clear. But there's no question that Giuliani has made the continuation of Swift-Boating politics a linchpin of his candidacy. His political hires speak deeply to that tendency. Chris Henick, formerly Karl Rove's most trusted deputy, is now a key aide at Giuliani Partners, the security firm set up by the mayor to cash in on his 9/11 image. One of his top donors, Richard Collins, is a longtime Bush supporter who was instrumental in setting up "Stop Her Now," a 527 group modeled on Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that will be used to attack Hillary Clinton. And the money for the smear campaign comes from the same Texas sources behind the Swift Boaters, including oilman T. Boone Pickens and Houston home builder Bob Perry.
To further emulate the Bush-Rove model, Giuliani has recruited some thirty Bush "Pioneers," the key fund-raisers who served as the president's $100,000 bagmen. In addition, he hired the woman who spearheaded the Pioneer program to be his chief fund-raiser. "Rudy definitely got some of Bush's heavier hitters, including all the Swift Boater types," says Alex Cohen, a senior researcher at Public Citizen, who tracks the president's top donors.
Rudy's stump speech on the trail these days is short and sweet. He talks about two things -- national security and free-market capitalism -- and his catchphrase for both is "going on offense." When he talks about "economic offense," Giuliani is ostensibly communicating the usual conservative contempt for taxes and big government. But he means more than that. Like the Bush-Cheney crew, Rudy believes everything should be for sale, even public policy -- particularly when he's in a position to do the selling.
In his years as mayor -- and his subsequent career as a lobbyist -- Rudy jumped into bed with anyone who could afford a rubber. Saudi Arabia, Rupert Murdoch, tobacco interests, pharmaceutical companies, private prisons, Bechtel, ChevronTexaco -- Giuliani took money from them all. You could change Rudy's mind literally in the time it took to write a check. A former prosecutor, Giuliani used to call drug dealers "murderers." But as a lobbyist he agreed to represent Seisint, a security firm run by former cocaine smuggler Hank Asher. "I have a great admiration for what he's doing," Rudy gushed after taking $2 million of Asher's money.
As mayor, Rudy had a history of asking financially interested parties to help shape important government policies. At one point, he allowed a deputy mayor who was on the payroll of Major League Baseball to work on deals for the Yankees and Mets; at another point he commissioned a $600,000 report on privatizing JFK and LaGuardia from a consultant with ties to the British Airport Authority, Rudy's handpicked choice to manage the airports.
And let's not forget Bernie Kerik, Rudy's very own hairy-assed Sancho Panza, who was nixed as director of Homeland Security after investigators uncovered a gift he received from a construction firm with alleged mob ties that wanted to do business with Giuliani's administration. It is a testament to the monstrous breadth of Rudy's chutzpah that he used his post-9/11 celebrity to push his personal bagman for a post that milks the world's hugest security-contracts tit -- at the very moment when he himself was creating a security-services company.
Then there's 9/11. Like Bush's, Rudy's career before the bombing was in the toilet; New Yorkers had come to think of him as an ambition-sick meanie whose personal scandals were truly wearying to think about. But on the day of the attack, it must be admitted, Rudy hit the perfect note; he displayed all the strength and reassuring calm that Bush did not, and for one day at least, he was everything you'd want in a leader. Then he woke up the next day and the opportunist in him saw that there was money to be made in an America high on fear.
For starters, Rudy tried to use the tragedy to shred election rules, pushing to postpone the inauguration of his successor so he could hog the limelight for a few more months. Then, with the dust from the World Trade Center barely settled, he went on the road as the Man With the Bullhorn, pocketing as much as $200,000 for a single speaking engagement. In 2002 he reported $8 million in speaking income; this past year it was more than $11 million. He's traveled in style, at one stop last year requesting a $47,000 flight on a private jet, five hotel rooms and a private suite with a balcony view and a king-size bed.
While the mayor himself flew out of New York on a magic carpet, thousands of cash-strapped cops, firemen and city workers involved with the cleanup at the World Trade Center were developing cancers and infections and mysterious respiratory ailments like the "WTC cough." This is the dirty little secret lurking underneath Rudy's 9/11 hero image -- the most egregious example of his willingness to shape public policy to suit his donors. While the cleanup effort at the Pentagon was turned over to federal agencies like OSHA, which quickly sealed off the site and required relief workers to wear hazmat suits, the World Trade Center cleanup was handed over to Giuliani. The city's Department of Design and Construction (DDC) promptly farmed out the waste-clearing effort to a smattering of politically connected companies, including Bechtel, Bovis and AMEC construction.
The mayor pledged to reopen downtown in no time, and internal DDC memos indicate that the cleanup was directed at a breakneck pace. One memo to DDC chief Michael Burton warned, "Project management appears to only address safety issues when convenient for the schedule of the project." Burton, however, had his own priorities: He threatened to fire contractors if "the highest level of efficiency is not maintained."
Although respiratory-mask use was mandatory, the city allowed a macho culture to develop on the site: Even the mayor himself showed up without a mask. By October, it was estimated, masks were being worn on site as little as twenty-nine percent of the time. Rudy proclaimed that there were "no significant problems" with the air at the World Trade Center. But there was something wrong with the air: It was one of the most dangerous toxic-waste sites in human history, full of everything from benzene to asbestos and PCBs to dioxin (the active ingredient in Agent Orange). Since the cleanup ended, police and firefighters have reported a host of serious illnesses -- respiratory ailments like sarcoidosis; leukemia and lymphoma and other cancers; and immune-system problems.
"The likelihood is that more people will eventually die from the cleanup than from the original accident," says David Worby, an attorney representing thousands of cleanup workers in a class-action lawsuit against the city. "Giuliani wears 9/11 like a badge of honor, but he screwed up so badly."
When I first spoke to Worby, he was on his way home from the funeral of a cop. "One thing about Giuliani," he told me. "He's never been to a funeral of a cleanup worker."
Indeed, Rudy has had little at all to say about the issue. About the only move he's made to address the problem was to write a letter urging Congress to pass a law capping the city's liability at $350 million.
Did Giuliani know the air at the World Trade Center was poison? Who knows -- but we do know he took over the cleanup, refusing to let more experienced federal agencies run the show. He stood on a few brick piles on the day of the bombing, then spent the next ten months making damn sure everyone worked the night shift on-site while he bonked his mistress and negotiated his gazillion-dollar move to the private sector. Meanwhile, the people who actually cleaned up the rubble got used to checking their stool for blood every morning.
Now Giuliani is running for president -- as the hero of 9/11. George Bush has balls, too, but even he has to bow to this motherfucker.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Are you always wrong about national election politics?
shutting down art museums?
coasting on his predecessors' policies? Yeah, right. In two terms his predecessors gave him all his success. When Bill Clinton was in office, we might say that the economy was starting to come around before he took over, but you can't really say it was President Bush who sustained the economy over those 8 years. You CAN say that Republican Congress and President Clinton share some of the credit for policies the public generally liked economically. If you were to give some credit to advisors or other officials while Guiliani was Mayor, maybe you (or the article you posted) would make more sense.
Much of this list is the same, and some of it very lame.
shutting down art museums?
coasting on his predecessors' policies? Yeah, right. In two terms his predecessors gave him all his success. When Bill Clinton was in office, we might say that the economy was starting to come around before he took over, but you can't really say it was President Bush who sustained the economy over those 8 years. You CAN say that Republican Congress and President Clinton share some of the credit for policies the public generally liked economically. If you were to give some credit to advisors or other officials while Guiliani was Mayor, maybe you (or the article you posted) would make more sense.
Much of this list is the same, and some of it very lame.
I made a similar comment during the election of 1992, directed at a Clinton impersonator in 9th grade, for a mock election. Sure, he later got impeached as a result of his lying under oath about his shenanigans, but many people think the guy was a terrific President. I said, "If you cheat on your wife, what's to say you wouldn't cheat on your country?" The lesson I think is that one's past does not necessarily, or always, forecast one's leadership abilities. I personally don't think being married more than once, even twice, has anything to do with how good Guiliani will be as President.Dude, you can’t even commit to your numerous wives.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
What Giuliani's ridiculous "12 Commitments" really mean:
(From Firedoglake:)
I’m running for President of the United States based on what I can offer the American people.
I’m pumped full of shallow rhetoric, baybay! Shallow rhetoric, empty calories and a proclivity to flipflop.
When I was the Mayor of New York, the city was in a crime crisis, a budget crisis and a financial crisis. When I left office, we had turned the city around dramatically with real results.
I coasted on the “slow but steady” changes implemented by my predecessors. Also, everyone knows black people can’t lead a major city like New York. Only hyper-aggressive white bullies like me can.
Many of the things I did as Mayor of New York City are transferable to what America needs now.
One item high on my agenda will be shutting down art museums. BTW, my PR girl told me about “transferable skills.” No, I haven’t slept with her. Not yet, anyway.
That’s why today I announced my 12 commitments to you, the American people.
Commitments. From Giuliani. Now that’s rich. Dude, you can’t even commit to your numerous wives.
These commitments are intended to lift our vision from the rear view mirror to the road ahead of us - the future.
History is for losers. The only good thing about being behind someone is that you can riddle them with bullets before they know what hit ‘em. Ask Amadou Diallo. Oh, wait. You can’t.
My 12 commitments to the American people are:
Hold onto your hats, ladies and gents. Strong gusts of hot air follow:
I will keep America on offense in the Terrorists’ War on Us.
FLYING FEARMONKEYS! FERRET SUICIDE BOMBERS! WE’RE THE VICTIMS HERE!
I will end illegal immigration, secure our borders, and identify every non-citizen in our nation.
I will institute a nationwide test - you must have a certain maximum percentage of melanin in your skin in order to avoid being rounded up and put in my camps. Oh, and by the way, have you met my friend Mr. Goebbels?
I will restore fiscal discipline and cut wasteful Washington spending.
I will also reverse the direction of the Earth’s rotation by flying around it really, really fast.
I will cut taxes and reform the tax code.
I have the invisible hand of the free market tickling my anal sphincter as we speak!
I will impose accountability on Washington.
I will appoint Bernie Kerik “Accountability Czar” (after I pardon him, of course). Also, I will take the credit whenever Congress does something good, and I will blame Congress for any of my multitude of fuck-ups.
I will lead America towards energy independence.
Thanks to my oil company clients at Bracewell & Giuliani, I know exactly what legal loopholes they’ll need!
I will give Americans more control over, and access to, healthcare with affordable and portable free-market solutions.
I will ensure that my pharmaceutical company clients continue to reap record-breaking profits and will stack the FDA with industry lobbyists. Besides, Judi wants to exercise her stock options so she can buy more tiaras.
I will increase adoptions, decrease abortions, and protect the quality of life for our children.
My PR girl told me to say that to get the fundamentalist nut jobs off my back. I’m settling for a compromise here: we force women to have babies so that there are more to adopt! It’s a win-win!
I will reform the legal system and appoint strict constructionist judges.
The Constitution is old and musty. It’s time we had a new one drafted. One that is to MY liking.
I will ensure that every community in America is prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.
I will direct every municipality in the country to install an emergency response center in the biggest possible target for terrorist attacks that they have.
I will provide access to a quality education to every child in America by giving real school choice to parents.
Only rich people will be able to afford mandatory charter schools for their children. Poor children will be apprenticed in the workhouses.
I will expand America’s involvement in the global economy and strengthen our reputation around the world.
I’m going make my inaugural ballgown look goooooooooooood.
My focus - as it was when I ran for Mayor - is on the future. Because real leadership is focused on handing our nation to the next generation far better than it was handed to us.
Lily-livered, pansy-assed Frenchmen, the lot of you. You know NOTHING about acquiring power. I do, and I’ll turn a profit doing it. For example:
"Giuliani Partners and Sabre Technical Services Form New Venture - Bio·ONE™
BOCA RATON, Fla., Jan. 13 /PRNewswire/ -
Flanked by Rudolph W. Giuliani, Chairman and CEO of Giuliani Partners LLC, and John Y. Mason, President and CEO of Sabre Technical Services LLC, David Rustine, President of Crown Companies and the new owner of the American Media Inc. (AMI) building announced today that Bio·ONE™™ has been selected to decontaminate and remediate the building — site of the first recognized anthrax incident in 2001."
That’s our Rudy. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Nothing except dollar signs.
(From Firedoglake:)
I’m running for President of the United States based on what I can offer the American people.
I’m pumped full of shallow rhetoric, baybay! Shallow rhetoric, empty calories and a proclivity to flipflop.
When I was the Mayor of New York, the city was in a crime crisis, a budget crisis and a financial crisis. When I left office, we had turned the city around dramatically with real results.
I coasted on the “slow but steady” changes implemented by my predecessors. Also, everyone knows black people can’t lead a major city like New York. Only hyper-aggressive white bullies like me can.
Many of the things I did as Mayor of New York City are transferable to what America needs now.
One item high on my agenda will be shutting down art museums. BTW, my PR girl told me about “transferable skills.” No, I haven’t slept with her. Not yet, anyway.
That’s why today I announced my 12 commitments to you, the American people.
Commitments. From Giuliani. Now that’s rich. Dude, you can’t even commit to your numerous wives.
These commitments are intended to lift our vision from the rear view mirror to the road ahead of us - the future.
History is for losers. The only good thing about being behind someone is that you can riddle them with bullets before they know what hit ‘em. Ask Amadou Diallo. Oh, wait. You can’t.
My 12 commitments to the American people are:
Hold onto your hats, ladies and gents. Strong gusts of hot air follow:
I will keep America on offense in the Terrorists’ War on Us.
FLYING FEARMONKEYS! FERRET SUICIDE BOMBERS! WE’RE THE VICTIMS HERE!
I will end illegal immigration, secure our borders, and identify every non-citizen in our nation.
I will institute a nationwide test - you must have a certain maximum percentage of melanin in your skin in order to avoid being rounded up and put in my camps. Oh, and by the way, have you met my friend Mr. Goebbels?
I will restore fiscal discipline and cut wasteful Washington spending.
I will also reverse the direction of the Earth’s rotation by flying around it really, really fast.
I will cut taxes and reform the tax code.
I have the invisible hand of the free market tickling my anal sphincter as we speak!
I will impose accountability on Washington.
I will appoint Bernie Kerik “Accountability Czar” (after I pardon him, of course). Also, I will take the credit whenever Congress does something good, and I will blame Congress for any of my multitude of fuck-ups.
I will lead America towards energy independence.
Thanks to my oil company clients at Bracewell & Giuliani, I know exactly what legal loopholes they’ll need!
I will give Americans more control over, and access to, healthcare with affordable and portable free-market solutions.
I will ensure that my pharmaceutical company clients continue to reap record-breaking profits and will stack the FDA with industry lobbyists. Besides, Judi wants to exercise her stock options so she can buy more tiaras.
I will increase adoptions, decrease abortions, and protect the quality of life for our children.
My PR girl told me to say that to get the fundamentalist nut jobs off my back. I’m settling for a compromise here: we force women to have babies so that there are more to adopt! It’s a win-win!
I will reform the legal system and appoint strict constructionist judges.
The Constitution is old and musty. It’s time we had a new one drafted. One that is to MY liking.
I will ensure that every community in America is prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.
I will direct every municipality in the country to install an emergency response center in the biggest possible target for terrorist attacks that they have.
I will provide access to a quality education to every child in America by giving real school choice to parents.
Only rich people will be able to afford mandatory charter schools for their children. Poor children will be apprenticed in the workhouses.
I will expand America’s involvement in the global economy and strengthen our reputation around the world.
I’m going make my inaugural ballgown look goooooooooooood.
My focus - as it was when I ran for Mayor - is on the future. Because real leadership is focused on handing our nation to the next generation far better than it was handed to us.
Lily-livered, pansy-assed Frenchmen, the lot of you. You know NOTHING about acquiring power. I do, and I’ll turn a profit doing it. For example:
"Giuliani Partners and Sabre Technical Services Form New Venture - Bio·ONE™
BOCA RATON, Fla., Jan. 13 /PRNewswire/ -
Flanked by Rudolph W. Giuliani, Chairman and CEO of Giuliani Partners LLC, and John Y. Mason, President and CEO of Sabre Technical Services LLC, David Rustine, President of Crown Companies and the new owner of the American Media Inc. (AMI) building announced today that Bio·ONE™™ has been selected to decontaminate and remediate the building — site of the first recognized anthrax incident in 2001."
That’s our Rudy. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Nothing except dollar signs.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
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OscarGuy
- Site Admin
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- Location: Springfield, MO
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Even the religious right won't want him.
Dobson says he will not back Giuliani in 2008
2 hours, 45 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Religious conservative leader James Dobson said on Thursday he would not vote for 2008 Republican presidential contender Rudolph Giuliani under any circumstances because of his support for abortion rights and his three marriages.
ADVERTISEMENT
Dobson, head of the influential Colorado-based group Focus on the Family, said Giuliani was not suited for the White House. Dobson said he would be willing to sit out the November 2008 election if Giuliani is the Republican presidential nominee.
"I cannot, and will not, vote for Rudy Giuliani in 2008," Dobson wrote in a commentary posted online at the Web site worldnetdaily.com.
Given a choice between Giuliani and the Democratic nominee, he said, "I will either cast my ballot for an also-ran -- or if worse comes to worst -- not vote in a presidential election for the first time in my adult life."
Dobson is a prominent voice among the religious and social conservatives who are powerful forces in the early Republican nominating contests. His criticism follows several weeks of attacks on Giuliani by conservatives over his support of abortion rights.
The attacks were spurred by his comments at the first Republican debate in California, where he appeared to be waffling on the issue.
"Is Rudy Giuliani presidential timber? I think not," Dobson said in the commentary.
"Can we really trust a chief executive who waffles and feigns support for policies that run contrary to his alleged beliefs? Of greater concern is how he would function in office," he said.
Giuliani leads the 10-man Republican field in national polls despite longstanding doubts about his candidacy from conservatives, but he has seen his lead over second-place Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) of Arizona shrink in recent weeks as social issues have moved to the fore of the debate.
Giuliani earned a national reputation for his leadership while he was mayor of New York after the September 11 attacks.
Dobson said Giuliani had tried to hide his views from conservatives, but "this leopard has not changed his spots." He also said the former mayor's three marriages raised "moral concerns about Giuliani's candidacy that conservatives should find troubling."
Dobson says he will not back Giuliani in 2008
2 hours, 45 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Religious conservative leader James Dobson said on Thursday he would not vote for 2008 Republican presidential contender Rudolph Giuliani under any circumstances because of his support for abortion rights and his three marriages.
ADVERTISEMENT
Dobson, head of the influential Colorado-based group Focus on the Family, said Giuliani was not suited for the White House. Dobson said he would be willing to sit out the November 2008 election if Giuliani is the Republican presidential nominee.
"I cannot, and will not, vote for Rudy Giuliani in 2008," Dobson wrote in a commentary posted online at the Web site worldnetdaily.com.
Given a choice between Giuliani and the Democratic nominee, he said, "I will either cast my ballot for an also-ran -- or if worse comes to worst -- not vote in a presidential election for the first time in my adult life."
Dobson is a prominent voice among the religious and social conservatives who are powerful forces in the early Republican nominating contests. His criticism follows several weeks of attacks on Giuliani by conservatives over his support of abortion rights.
The attacks were spurred by his comments at the first Republican debate in California, where he appeared to be waffling on the issue.
"Is Rudy Giuliani presidential timber? I think not," Dobson said in the commentary.
"Can we really trust a chief executive who waffles and feigns support for policies that run contrary to his alleged beliefs? Of greater concern is how he would function in office," he said.
Giuliani leads the 10-man Republican field in national polls despite longstanding doubts about his candidacy from conservatives, but he has seen his lead over second-place Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) of Arizona shrink in recent weeks as social issues have moved to the fore of the debate.
Giuliani earned a national reputation for his leadership while he was mayor of New York after the September 11 attacks.
Dobson said Giuliani had tried to hide his views from conservatives, but "this leopard has not changed his spots." He also said the former mayor's three marriages raised "moral concerns about Giuliani's candidacy that conservatives should find troubling."
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Kucinich is not my political hero, you presumptuous moron. He's a good man, but he's too conservative for hero status, although he is the best that we can hope for from the Denocrats.
The way you gushed about him, I thought he was one of your heroes. Oh, well.
Idiot, are you completely without reading comprehension skills? The Daily News poll showed : Forty-six percent of those polled said Bloomberg would make a better president than Giuliani while 29 percent chose Giuliani over Bloomberg
17 percent is not a "close call" by any stretch of the imagination, any more than 51 percent is a mandate.
And Giuliani is not going to get more than 25% of the gay vote. Most queers are smart enough to stay away as far as possible from Republicans. The only thing that Giuliani means is that the self-loathers like you and the Uncle Tom's Cabin club won't have to hem and haw quite so much as you did when voting for Worst President Ever who was delighted to exploit anti-gay bigotry.
First, I wasn't talking about the poll. I was talking about my own instinct on how that would play out. I could, of course, be wrong.
Second, 25% of gay votes would be good for any Republican candidate against a high-profile Democrat.
Third, I am not self-loathing. I do not see my conservative positions as interfering with my natural attraction to men. It doesn't strike me as a conflict of interest. Pandering to a "movement" for a union-like mentality has no value for me. Being gay has nothing to do with my beliefs about abortion, religion, economy, or the War Against Terrorism. So some Republicans may identify with being against same-sex unions, but with a majority of Americans saying they don't have a problem with gays living their own private lives, including many Republicans, I don't think I'm really so out-of-sync with the party. Bush only wanted to keep the current policy, which is "One Man, One Woman" to define marraige. Clinton did it before him. I don't necessarily agree with making an amendment to the constitution, but I have my own views on how this issue has been messed up by gay activists. Therefore, I do not view Mr. Bush as gay-hating, but that he believes that a "gay marraige" would be against his religious beliefs. He doesn't hate the people, but isn't keen on the idea of an official gay marraige. He has in the past said he might support the notion of gay unions, which some gays view as second-class status.
Buy a dictionary, pinhead.
Wrong word. "Presumed" might have been better. Although I might be able to say that Clinton is rather "presumptuous" about her candidacy. After all, she often talks about what she'd find WHEN she becomes president, not IF.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
criddic3 wrote:I'm not surprised that Damien, Kucinich-is-my-political-hero, would find Bloomberg preferrable to Guiliani.
Kucinich is not my political hero, you presumptuous moron. He's a good man, but he's too conservative for hero status, although he is the best that we can hope for from the Denocrats.
criddic3 wrote:I think in NYC it might be a close-call
Idiot, are you completely without reading comprehension skills? The Daily News poll showed : Forty-six percent of those polled said Bloomberg would make a better president than Giuliani while 29 percent chose Giuliani over Bloomberg
17 percent is not a "close call" by any stretch of the imagination, any more than 51 percent is a mandate.
And Giuliani is not going to get more than 25% of the gay vote. Most queers are smart enough to stay away as far as possible from Republicans. The only thing that Giuliani means is that the self-loathers like you and the Uncle Tom's Cabin club won't have to hem and haw quite so much as you did when voting for Worst President Ever who was delighted to exploit anti-gay bigotry.
criddic3 wrote:Against Hillary Clinton, the presumptuous nominee
Buy a dictionary, pinhead.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
I'm not surprised that Damien, Kucinich-is-my-political-hero, would find Bloomberg preferrable to Guiliani. Bloomberg is a good mayor, no doubt about that. He has been effective in several areas, but he doesn't match Guiliani's record. In fact, Guiliani would be favored I think in a match-up between the two in NY state. I think in NYC it might be a close-call, but Bloomberg's status as the current popular mayor would boost him of course. No, I cannot see him as a president of the country. Rudy, though, I can clearly picture as the president.
His stance on abortion has been more clearly defined since his blunder in the California debate. I don't think, in the end, that it will affect his nomination much. One reason is that he is basically saying he will leave the ultimate decision to the courts and lawmakers to decide whether the right-to-choose is legit. On this issue it may well be the correct political road for him to take. He will come up far stronger on national security issues, and I think that coupled with economic positions may be enough to give him the nomination.
Against Hillary Clinton, the presumptuous nominee for the Democrats, he has a real shot at winning. A percentage of the country will not vote for any woman ever, including many women. Another percentage will not vote for Hillary, including some Democrats and many New Yorkers (state-wide particularly). Another won't vote for her because of Bill Clinton, granted mostly conservatives and some independents.
But Guiliani will split the gay rights vote, split the women's rights votes and have most conservatives and many independents on board. I say in the match-up, Guiliani wins by a fair margin.
Of course much depends on the campaign that is waged and who each chooses as a running mate.
His stance on abortion has been more clearly defined since his blunder in the California debate. I don't think, in the end, that it will affect his nomination much. One reason is that he is basically saying he will leave the ultimate decision to the courts and lawmakers to decide whether the right-to-choose is legit. On this issue it may well be the correct political road for him to take. He will come up far stronger on national security issues, and I think that coupled with economic positions may be enough to give him the nomination.
Against Hillary Clinton, the presumptuous nominee for the Democrats, he has a real shot at winning. A percentage of the country will not vote for any woman ever, including many women. Another percentage will not vote for Hillary, including some Democrats and many New Yorkers (state-wide particularly). Another won't vote for her because of Bill Clinton, granted mostly conservatives and some independents.
But Guiliani will split the gay rights vote, split the women's rights votes and have most conservatives and many independents on board. I say in the match-up, Guiliani wins by a fair margin.
Of course much depends on the campaign that is waged and who each chooses as a running mate.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
Mister Tee wrote:Anyway, the overriding point is, Rudy deserves no credit for boldness at taking this approach; it's pretty clear he was forced into it.
Like most bullies, Giuliani is essentially a coward. Now that he's trying to appeal to the right-wing extremists who vote in Republican primaries, he's not brave enough to stand up for the gun control issues he pushed as mayor. Now it's "a matter for the states," Same for gay rights and even flying the Confederate flag -- although since he is a racist, I'm sure he was probably always secretly a fan of the latter.
I can't stand Bloomberg, but compared to Giuliani he's a combination of FDR, King Arthur and St. Francis of Assisi.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
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Mister Tee
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What happened was, the Giuliani campaign booked the farm for a campaign rally, but neglected to check to see if their assets were high enough to be subject to that GOP bugaboo, the estate tax. It turned out it wasn't, which was always the most likely circumstance, because these "family farms being lost to the estate tax" are essentially mythical -- the tax doesn't kick in until the $2 million mark, and even this isn't an onerous tax, one which can be paid out over many years.Big Magilla wrote:The story about the poor farmers is hardly newsworthy. I suspect that kind of thng happens all the time. Maybe Giuliani's staff balked at having to pay for the port-a-potties.
Meantime, they treated the couple as disposable. No, it wasn't "personal", and it's the sort of thing that can happen in a campaign -- but, as Sonic says, had a Clinton done it, it would be Drudge/Limbaughed into the worst insult to the average American in the last century.
By the way, let's not give Giuliani any credit for running as pro-choice. He was clearly trying to straddle the issue -- witness his nonsensical "it'd be okay to overturn Roe, or not" response in the debate two weeks ago. But the surfacing of the Planned Parenthood donations made that an impossible pose to maintain. So, he pulled an "I meant to do that", and suddenly announced he was challenging GOP orthodoxy on the issue.
Whether such an approach is viable remains to be seen -- it's popular with the press, because they love social liberalism along with big tax cuts, but there are elements of the party more in sympathy with Democratic economics who vote Republican solely on the social issues. Anyway, the overriding point is, Rudy deserves no credit for boldness at taking this approach; it's pretty clear he was forced into it.
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Big Magilla
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The story about the poor farmers is hardly newsworthy. I suspect that kind of thng happens all the time. Maybe Giuliani's staff balked at having to pay for the port-a-potties.
New Yorkers would choose Bloomberg over Giuliani in a heartbeat, but what is his appeal in the rest of the country? If Giuliani looses his front-runenr status, will the Republicans look to another New Yorker to take over his candidacy? I can't see him running as an independant, though he could certainly afford it. Three New Yorkers running for president in the General Election? It doesn't seem likely.
New Yorkers would choose Bloomberg over Giuliani in a heartbeat, but what is his appeal in the rest of the country? If Giuliani looses his front-runenr status, will the Republicans look to another New Yorker to take over his candidacy? I can't see him running as an independant, though he could certainly afford it. Three New Yorkers running for president in the General Election? It doesn't seem likely.
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OscarGuy
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Bloomberg wouldn't be the republican nominee...that would still be Giuliani...Bloomberg would be an Indy...If it were the three of them, I'm sure Hillary would win hands down...too much support siphoned from Giuliani...matter of fact, if New Yorkers really feel that way about Giuliani...I could actually see him coming in third within the state of New York.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
The article about the farmers mentions The Staff, as opposed to Guiliani himself, and tries to make it seem like Guiliani himself was rejecting the people outright. It more likely was decided by his team that it wasn't the right venue for him. This probably happens a lot in political campaigns. I doubt he rejected them out of any personal reasons.
Bloomberg as President? I don't know. It would be a really lackluster campaign for me to support. He'd be trounced by Hillary in the general election.
Bloomberg as President? I don't know. It would be a really lackluster campaign for me to support. He'd be trounced by Hillary in the general election.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
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OscarGuy
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Hmm. Wouldn't this be interesting...Hillary for Dems, Giuliani for Pubs and Bloomberg as an indie? That would certainly be a first in the history of presidential elections: 3 major candidates all representing or having represented New York State/City.
New Yorkers back Bloomberg over Giuliani in poll 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York City voters would prefer current Mayor Michael Bloomberg over former Mayor Rudy Giuliani for president of the United States, according to a poll published in the New York Daily News on Monday.
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Forty-six percent of those polled said Bloomberg would make a better president than Giuliani while 29 percent chose Giuliani over Bloomberg, according to the poll conducted for the Daily News by Blum & Weprin Associates.
By an even greater margin -- 56 percent to 29 percent -- those surveyed said Bloomberg was a better mayor than Giuliani, who was widely praised for his leadership following the September 11 attacks.
The poll surveyed 503 registered voters and had a margin of error of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points.
Giuliani is seeking the Republican nomination for president and Bloomberg repeatedly has said he has no plans to enter the race. However, speculation refuses to die that Bloomberg, a billionaire former Democrat who ran for mayor as a Republican in 2001, might self-finance an independent campaign.
Should Bloomberg decide to run, Republican Sen. Chuck Hegel of Nebraska suggested the two of them might make a good ticket.
"It's a great country to think about -- a New York boy and a Nebraska boy to be teamed up leading this nation," Hagel told the CBS television show "Face the Nation" on Sunday. He did not say who should lead the ticket.
Bloomberg succeeded Giuliani as mayor, winning election in 2001 shortly after the September 11 attacks. He was re-elected in 2005.
New Yorkers back Bloomberg over Giuliani in poll 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York City voters would prefer current Mayor Michael Bloomberg over former Mayor Rudy Giuliani for president of the United States, according to a poll published in the New York Daily News on Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT
Forty-six percent of those polled said Bloomberg would make a better president than Giuliani while 29 percent chose Giuliani over Bloomberg, according to the poll conducted for the Daily News by Blum & Weprin Associates.
By an even greater margin -- 56 percent to 29 percent -- those surveyed said Bloomberg was a better mayor than Giuliani, who was widely praised for his leadership following the September 11 attacks.
The poll surveyed 503 registered voters and had a margin of error of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points.
Giuliani is seeking the Republican nomination for president and Bloomberg repeatedly has said he has no plans to enter the race. However, speculation refuses to die that Bloomberg, a billionaire former Democrat who ran for mayor as a Republican in 2001, might self-finance an independent campaign.
Should Bloomberg decide to run, Republican Sen. Chuck Hegel of Nebraska suggested the two of them might make a good ticket.
"It's a great country to think about -- a New York boy and a Nebraska boy to be teamed up leading this nation," Hagel told the CBS television show "Face the Nation" on Sunday. He did not say who should lead the ticket.
Bloomberg succeeded Giuliani as mayor, winning election in 2001 shortly after the September 11 attacks. He was re-elected in 2005.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Sonic Youth
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Imagine if Hillary Clinton did this. The media would have her head on a pike.
But it's Rudy, so it's okay.
Couple: We weren't rich enough for Giuliani
Olin farmers say he pulled out of event at their home after checking their assets
By JONATHAN ROOS
DES MOINES REGISTER STAFF WRITER
May 12, 2007
Deborah VonSprecken had looked forward to having former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani photographed with Jack of Diamonds, one of the Texas Longhorns on her family's 80-acre farm near the eastern Iowa town of Olin.
Instead VonSprecken and her husband, Jerry, feel they received a bum steer from the Republican presidential candidate.
The couple was asked by Giuliani's campaign staff to host an event on May 4 at their farm. They began feverishly making preparations, then learned a few days later that the Republican candidate was not going to come after all.
Giuliani did speak at a rally in Cedar Rapids that day, stressing his record as a tax cutter and urging permanent repeal of the federal estate tax.
Deborah VonSprecken said Giuliani's campaign backed out of the event at her home after deciding she and her husband did not fill the bill for the candidate's talk about the so-called "death tax."
"They checked our assets, and since we're not considered millionaires, they canceled," she said.
VonSprecken told her local newspaper, "Why would Rudy Giuliani not come speak to the average Americans that live in eastern Iowa, instead of qualifying you as a millionaire before he will show up to your place?"
The couple had told the Giuliani campaign staff from the beginning, "We're just poor farmers," she said.
Maria Comella, a spokeswoman for Giuliani's campaign, called the matter an unfortunate misunderstanding without directly addressing why the location of the event was changed.
"We certainly apologize for any inconvenience that occurred," Comella said.
VonSprecken said she and her husband had gone to a lot of trouble to get ready for the campaign event. They moved cattle out of a pasture and cleared away brush to make room for parking. They brought in hay bales for seating in front of the barn.
The couple was also planning to get portable toilets for the 75 to 100 people expected. VonSprecken said she was assured that "Giuliani will pay for them, blah, blah."
Giuliani's campaign staff tried to make amends after canceling the farm visit by asking VonSprecken to take part in the Cedar Rapids rally, but she wasn't able to drive there.
Now she's undecided about whom to support for president. And that's no bull.
But it's Rudy, so it's okay.
Couple: We weren't rich enough for Giuliani
Olin farmers say he pulled out of event at their home after checking their assets
By JONATHAN ROOS
DES MOINES REGISTER STAFF WRITER
May 12, 2007
Deborah VonSprecken had looked forward to having former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani photographed with Jack of Diamonds, one of the Texas Longhorns on her family's 80-acre farm near the eastern Iowa town of Olin.
Instead VonSprecken and her husband, Jerry, feel they received a bum steer from the Republican presidential candidate.
The couple was asked by Giuliani's campaign staff to host an event on May 4 at their farm. They began feverishly making preparations, then learned a few days later that the Republican candidate was not going to come after all.
Giuliani did speak at a rally in Cedar Rapids that day, stressing his record as a tax cutter and urging permanent repeal of the federal estate tax.
Deborah VonSprecken said Giuliani's campaign backed out of the event at her home after deciding she and her husband did not fill the bill for the candidate's talk about the so-called "death tax."
"They checked our assets, and since we're not considered millionaires, they canceled," she said.
VonSprecken told her local newspaper, "Why would Rudy Giuliani not come speak to the average Americans that live in eastern Iowa, instead of qualifying you as a millionaire before he will show up to your place?"
The couple had told the Giuliani campaign staff from the beginning, "We're just poor farmers," she said.
Maria Comella, a spokeswoman for Giuliani's campaign, called the matter an unfortunate misunderstanding without directly addressing why the location of the event was changed.
"We certainly apologize for any inconvenience that occurred," Comella said.
VonSprecken said she and her husband had gone to a lot of trouble to get ready for the campaign event. They moved cattle out of a pasture and cleared away brush to make room for parking. They brought in hay bales for seating in front of the barn.
The couple was also planning to get portable toilets for the 75 to 100 people expected. VonSprecken said she was assured that "Giuliani will pay for them, blah, blah."
Giuliani's campaign staff tried to make amends after canceling the farm visit by asking VonSprecken to take part in the Cedar Rapids rally, but she wasn't able to drive there.
Now she's undecided about whom to support for president. And that's no bull.
"What the hell?"
Win Butler
Win Butler