Unofficial Academy Awards Discussion Board

I've read speculation the reason France submitted The Taste Of Things for International Feature rather than Anatomy Of A Fall was Fall director Justine Triet attacked French President Emmanuel Macron during her Palme d'Or acceptance speech at Cannes.

My guess is, that if there were 10 nominations for both film and director, this year there would most likely be an exact matchup.

"How can it be nominated for best picture and not best director?" was annoying enough to have to answer back in the five-and-five days -- no matter how often you explained the directors' branch was a much smaller group with more art-aligned tastes, the media would scream about someone being snubbed. But it's flat ridiculous now, with 10 film nominations and only five slots, and a lot of this is just opportunism. Kyle Buchanan in today's NY Times is one of the few to note that a good recent antecedent for this might be Villeneuve for Dune -- another person who'd already received a directing nomination, and was definitely perceived to have elevated his material via directorial skills, but who was left off for falling too much into the commercial vein. And, of course, those of us with memories, or just a sense of history, flash right to Spielberg in Jaws.

Quick side note: A lot of people are tossing around this "directed itself" quote, and I want to report that the first time the phrase was used -- by Billy Crystal, at the 1989 Oscars -- it was a pretty good joke. The film in question was Driving Miss Daisy, whose director Bruce Beresford was omitted by the directors...rather conspicuously, since the film led all nominated films with 9 nominations, and went on to win best picture despite the omission, something that hadn't happened in most people's lifetimes. There was no perceived agenda behind Beresford's non-presence -- no one said "It's because he's Australian!" And, worth noting for those who dislike Driving Miss Daisy: among the films directors did keep in were the (to me, far worse) Dead Poets Society.

But, then, Crystal repeated the joke two years later in his musical numbers, and wove it into the already-ongoing pity party for Barbra Streisand (while the real outrage was Prince of Tides being in best picture, not missing best director). And since then it's become officially useless, if not actively destructive. Fie on everyone using it.

As for the Gosling in/Robbie out "proving" Barbie's thesis -- as Harry Goldfarb succinctly says: Gosling's character and performance were far more glowingly reviewed by pretty much everyone who had an official reaction to the film. Robbie was always considered a bubble candidate, while Gosling was can't-miss from the get-go. Anyone who argues otherwise is pushing an agenda, and can be dismissed out of hand.

A few other things:

A small group of folk at that silly site have taken to declaring Bening now firmly in the race. Of course, never-say-never/it'll-bite-you-in-the-ass, but when I saw this, I thought, as much as I hate the gate-keeping that's developed around the Oscars these past two decades -- that, with SAG/BAFTA operating as far-too-accurate predictors, we're in an era where even the surprises are half-predictable -- the upside is, we're not subject to those out-of-the-blue horrible choices. in other words, no more Don Ameches...a category into which a Bening win would fall.

Do we think Wes Anderson is going to win his first, if minor, Oscar? Voters have been mostly reluctant to give prominent/main category-contending folk the satisfaction in these shorts categories, but mostly they've accomplished that by boxing them out at the nominations stage. Ever since voting in these slots was opened to full membership, the most high profile item has generally won (e.g., Riz Ahmed's film). Will Wes be there for it?

I forgot to mention in my reaction Tuesday, but the scenario I'd seen potential for in my predictions -- France being embarrassed by Taste of Things failing at nomination while Anatomy over-performed in the big categories -- came to pass. Of course, France may have expected (and been right to expect) disqualification for Triet's film via language, but it's still pretty funny.

Okri wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:59 am The gender make up of the directing branch (91% male in 2012, though no doubt its better now) AND the fact that Barbie is ultra-feminine (so much pink) shouldn't be dismissed as contributors to the omission there.

I would characterize Barbie as girly rather than ultra-feminine. I know a lot of women who won't even watch the film because of that perception.

I will agree, though, that sexism may have played a part in Gerwig's omission in Best Director but not Robbie's which is the one that seems to have irritated more people.

I guess I just kind of like that people are really passionate about movies. It's a shame that it's manifesting as vitriol around an omission, but I don't know, I remember getting pissed about the Oscars back when I was younger. I'll take that over apathy.

The gender make up of the directing branch (91% male in 2012, though no doubt its better now) AND the fact that Barbie is ultra-feminine (so much pink) shouldn't be dismissed as contributors to the omission there.

Big Magilla wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 10:14 am
The silliest, though, remains the claim that it was "old white men" who kept Robbie out of the best actress line-up. This goes totally against the long-held belief that "old white men" vote for the actresses they most want to sleep with in which case Robbie would surely have come in ahead of all the actual nominees.

Ha!

This got me to thinking about rationalizations that were used in the past that would not fly in this case. I remember "It's possible 'x' recieved more votes than 'y' but 'x' was left off because her category was stronger." I think everyone can intuit that was not the case this time, especially since if Robbie did receive more votes than osling, it would mean Gosling came in 5th in his category.

Or "We all know the members don't even fill out their own ballots. They give them to the hired help and have them fill it out for them." We don't hear that one very much anymore, do we? And anyway, Barbie would probably be the one film the hired help saw and eagerly voted for.

Sonic Youth wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:33 am

HarryGoldfarb wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:35 am

Sabin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:05 pm I knew that when Greta Gerwig and Margot Robbie were ignored that there would be a backlash.

All this is to say that I find the state of moviegoers regrettable, having become a mass that gives its opinion in droves without thinking that much, without understanding contexts, and hypertrophiing the narrative that is both current and fashionable.

I think we may need yearly reminders of how "niche" we are. Normal people don't follow these things to the smallest detail like we do.

This year is really crazy.

I just came across an article on the failure of The Color Purple to obtain more than one nomination, blaming it on Warner Bros.' push for Barbie instead of acknowledging how bad the film is. They also claim that Taraji P. Henson's badmouthing the producers had nothing to do with putting off voters who gave five nominations to The Holdovers despite the fact that Alexander Payne had been accused of sexual harassment by Rose McGowan five years ago, a fact he denies.

The silliest, though, remains the claim that it was "old white men" who kept Robbie out of the best actress line-up. This goes totally against the long-held belief that "old white men" vote for the actresses they most want to sleep with in which case Robbie would surely have come in ahead of all the actual nominees.

I'm more bummed out that they left Payne out of the Best Director lineup than I am about Gerwig not making the cut. I hope it had nothing to do with the harassment claim. At the same time, I'm not happy that they nominated Jonathan Glazer over Celine Song, but it is what it is. If I had a vote it would go to Christopher Nolan regardless of who else that they might have nominated.

What I am happiest about is that they keep saying that it is a two-person race between Lily Gladstone and Emma Stone for Best Actress which leaves it wide open for gasps when they open the envelope and announce Sandra Hüller as the winner. Why they keep underestimating her chances, I don't know. She's in two Best Picture nominees, both of which are nominated for direction and screenplay.

HarryGoldfarb wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:35 am

Sabin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:05 pm I knew that when Greta Gerwig and Margot Robbie were ignored that there would be a backlash.

All this is to say that I find the state of moviegoers regrettable, having become a mass that gives its opinion in droves without thinking that much, without understanding contexts, and hypertrophiing the narrative that is both current and fashionable.

I think we may need yearly reminders of how "niche" we are. Normal people don't follow these things to the smallest detail like we do.

I do love the board's selective outrage. Which is sarcasm in case you couldn't figure it out.

Now watch Barbie win best picture because of the preferential ballot system

Whoopi is right.

And Whoopi Goldberg just came out and said that Barbie wasn't snubbed.

At the end of the day, we live in a stupid world where everybody has an opinion on something. I do think there's something to the notion that most moviegoers haven't felt as passionately about a movie as Barbie in some time so it's not unrealistic that they'd have something to say about Gerwig and Robbie not making it in. It's the loudest outcry since The Dark Knight failed to make Best Picture and to be honest I wonder in a field of five if Barbie would suffer the same fate. Who knows?

That said, I think the truth is somewhere in between. The Gerwig snub is understandable in the context of stiff competition. Robbie on the other hand is a little harder to explain. Harry is right that after Barbie's release, Robbie wasn't seen as a sure-thing for a nomination. But why was that? It was because she was outshone by Gosling*, because comedy is never a sure thing, and (very arguably) the film's weird structure which didn't give her as much as her co-stars. It wasn't that anyone thought she was anything other that terrific in the role. I think it's perfectly fair to look at the performer who likely replaced her (Annette Bening) and ask why for a film that wasn't especially liked and for a characterization that wasn't especially strong? The number one comment I heard about Bening during its festival review was "unlikable character." Beyond being in a drama, there's no doubt Bening had one thing going for her that Robbie didn't. What she did looked like acting. I have no doubt some of what pushed the needle was voters assuming "Oh, that's just Margot Robbie."

Neither Robbie or Bening would make my list of five but between the two of them? Robbie by a mile.

*If Gosling was appropriately pushed as a lead, he wouldn't be nominated either.

I didn't know that Hillary got in on the act, too, but I turned off MSNBC's Morning Joe yesterday morning after Willy Geist and two other commentators weighed in bemoaning the fact that "our friend Bradley Cooper" wasn't nominated for Best Director using the tired cliche that the film didn't direct itself.

Elise Jordan, a Southern white former Republican pollster and current anti-Trumper, opined about the Gerwig and Robbie omissions that the Academy may have diversified somewhat but is still run by a bunch of old white men who are out of touch with the general public. Maybe she was confusing the Oscars with the People's Choice awards.

It's so ridiculous.

Sabin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:05 pm I knew that when Greta Gerwig and Margot Robbie were ignored that there would be a backlash.

I don't understand why everyone is so surprised about Robbie missing the Best Actress nod, it seems that over the months (and driven by the commercial success the film experienced, which has little or nothing to say about the quality of a performance) people lost any notion of the film's initial reception.

Before the premiere of Barbie, there were many doubts about the quality of the final product, Gosling's casting was questioned, and the only aparente redeeming aspect of the project was Greta. Robbie was at that point a lucky/nice casting. When Barbie was released, everyone was surprised by Gosling, and from the beginning the reviews singled him out and pointed him out as the MVP and there was talk almost immediately of his inevitable Oscar nomination. It was always said that Robbie did well, but no more, perhaps the fault’s on Gerwig who, in a film called Barbie, dedicated maybe the most challenging or at least attractive plot to Ken (and to a lesser extent, to a conflicted adult human who plays with a Barbie), relegating Barbie to the role of a weak center of attraction thematically speaking.

As the months went by, it seemed that the Best Actress competition was not filled with obvious candidates except for Stone and Gladstone (the latter with the controversy that always accompanied her as to whether hers was a leading or supporting role), and then more or less a narrative for her began to cement but never with real force. We knew that she would not win the Globe against Stone and without Bafta’s support she was in more than uncertain territory.

The cries of protest yesterday and today focus on the fact that by nominating "Ken" and not "Barbie" the Academy is validating the film's narrative about how difficult it is to be a woman in a world of men, as if five women different from Robbie, surely with different merits but merits nonetheless, were nominated for an Oscar.

All this is to say that I find the state of moviegoers regrettable, having become a mass that gives its opinion in droves without thinking that much, without understanding contexts, and hypertrophiing the narrative that is both current and fashionable. Robbie isn't out of her categoría because Gosling was nominated. Gosling didn't have it any easier: he competed against other men to get his nod and he clearly benefited from the unexpected focus that the director herself gave to his character in the plot.

Anyway, it is almos normal (and almost expected) that Robbie ended up bumped out... Gerwig's case may be more unexpected but it doesn't really bother me (it hurt me more that she was ignored for Little Women).