Correcting Oscar 1999

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In which Oscar category should these nominees have been in - Lead, Support or Neither

Annette Bening, American Beauty - Lead
3
14%
Annette Bening, American Beauty - Support
5
23%
Annette Bening, American Beauty - Other Category But Would Not Register a Nomination
0
No votes
Haley Joel Osment, The Sixth Sense - Lead
4
18%
Haley Joel Osment, The Sixth Sense - Support
2
9%
Haley Joel Osment, The Sixth Sense - Other Category But Would Not Register a Nomination
1
5%
Chloe Sevigny, Boys Don't Cry - Lead
1
5%
Chloe Sevigny, Boys Don't Cry - Support
6
27%
Chloe Sevigny, Boys Don't Cry - Other Category But Would Not Register a Nomination
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 22

Sabin
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Sabin »

Really need to keep posting these things...
Big Magilla wrote
Maybe Osment should have been considered in the lead category but aside from Brandon de Wilde in Shane, child actors were not nominated at all from the rise of Shirley Temple through the special Oscar to Hayley Mills in 1960. They were either given special juvenile awards or ignored altogether...

Personally, I thought Osment should have been nominated as Best Actor for the criminally underrated A.I.: Artificial Intelligence in 2001. I thought he was correctly positioned in support for The Sixth Sense as Bruce Willis was the nominal star.
I understand but the point of this exercise is to say forget about Academy politics. What was the correct placement for the performance? I envisioned this exercise as an opportunity to see what kinds of opportunities arise when there is less Academy politicking, but if you feel that Haley Joel Osment is a supporting actor in The Sixth Sense, go with your gut.
Big Magilla wrote
As for the others I mentioned, Carrey, whose film and performance I personally did not like, was nominated for Best Actor by SAG and won the Globe for Best Actor-Comedy; Fiennes was nominated for a BAFTA and Damon was nominated for Best Actor-Drama at the Globes. Penn's nomination was a surprise, but it didn't come out of nowhere. He was nominated for Best Actor-Comedy at the Globes. The other four nominees, Denzel Washington. Russell Crowe, winner Kevin Spacey, and New York Film Critics winner Richard Farnsworth had all been nominated for Globes, and all but Farnsworth had been nominated by SAG. So, yes, if Penn hadn't been nominated, then Damon, Fiennes, or Carrey would have been the most likely to fill the fifth spot.

Ralph Fiennes, who has five SAG nominations for his film work and six BAFTA nominations for the same, is the most criminally underrated living actor as far as Oscar is concerned. He has only two Oscar nominations to his credit for Schindler's List and The English Patient. He should have also been nominated for Quiz Show, The End of the Affair, The Constant Gardener, and maybe even A Bigger Splash, in which case he'd be the Amy Adams of male actors as far as Oscar is concerned.
I agree with you that Ralph Fiennes was an Academy favorite by that point, and certainly it's not hard to imagine a world where he was also nominated for Best Actor for Quiz Show. But I don't think he was in the running in 1999 for a couple of reasons. Aside from its strong showing at the BAFTAs, The End of the Affair had its strongest showing at the Golden Globes where it was nominated for Best Picture, Best Actress, Best Director, and Best Original Score. Even the HFPA didn't nominate him for Best Actor, instead giving his spot to Matt Damon. I know you're not saying that Fiennes has a better shot than Damon, but you'd think if there was one group that was going to give it to Fiennes it would be the organization that was the biggest fans of the film. I think Ralph Fiennes was a bit taken for granted for his work in (again) a role that on the surface seemed a bit similar to his English Patient performance. Beyond that, The End of the Affair really under-performed with the Academy across the board. This was such a handsome production and it only picked up mentions for Julianne Moore and its gorgeous cinematography, but nothing for its writing, music, production design, or costume design. I just don't think it was much on the Academy's radar.

I think you're right that the last spot was probably between Jim Carrey and Matt Damon but if we had to pick a third I can think of a few other options. Maybe Philip Seymour Hoffman for Flawless. He had a fantastic year in 1999 and his performance in Joel Schumacher's weird bomb of a buddy comedy did get him a SAG nomination. Maybe Terrence Stamp for his comeback role in The Limey, maybe Jim Broadbent who was a critics fave for Topsy-Turvy, an actor who was getting closer to a nomination in a film that did a bit better than some might have guessed early on, or Jeff Bridges for The Door in the Floor, a largely forgotten film but a performance that many were expecting in the summer and an actor who shows up all the time. But if I had to guess who might have been third rung in retrospect (in an Osment-less field), maybe we're overthinking this. What movie did much better than people thought across the board and had a strong campaign behind it? Maybe third rung was Tobey Maguire for The Cider House Rules? Sure, he didn't really show up anywhere but nominating voters were clearly fans of it across the board, and he was a young, exciting up-and-comer by 1999. Who knows? Maybe Sean Penn beat him by a few votes.
danfrank wrote
I agree about Fiennes. As fine a dramatic actor as he is, he’s perhaps even more talented as a comedic actor. I’ve watched the clip from Hail, Caesar!, where he’s attempting to direct Alden Ehrenreich’s character, probably a dozen times. Fiennes is playing the straight man but is the one who is just incredibly funny in that scene. I think he’s underrated not just by the Oscars but by filmmakers who overlook or underutilize him, and thus his talents get wasted on James Bond films and the like.
He's wonderful in Hail, Caesar! but I'll be honest I'm quite a fan of him in the James Bond films, especially Skyfall where he offers the right balance of integrity and snooty.

I think the performance we're all forgetting is his fantastically funny work in The Grand Budapest Hotel. I'm well known on this board for my Wes Anderson fandom. The one area where I think he's a bit lacking these days is in his character-writing. Not the case with Ralph Fiennes and The Grand Budapest Hotel. He's so funny and spontaneous. I would've preferred him to any of the nominees.
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by danfrank »

I agree about Fiennes. As fine a dramatic actor as he is, he’s perhaps even more talented as a comedic actor. I’ve watched the clip from Hail, Caesar!, where he’s attempting to direct Alden Ehrenreich’s character, probably a dozen times. Fiennes is playing the straight man but is the one who is just incredibly funny in that scene. I think he’s underrated not just by the Oscars but by filmmakers who overlook or underutilize him, and thus his talents get wasted on James Bond films and the like.
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Reza »

Big Magilla wrote:Ralph Fiennes, who has five SAG nominations for his film work and six BAFTA nominations for the same, is the most criminally underrated living actor as far as Oscar is concerned. He has only two Oscar nominations to his credit for Schindler's List and The English Patient. He should have also been nominated for Quiz Show, The End of the Affair, The Constant Gardener, and maybe even A Bigger Splash, in which case he'd be the Amy Adams of male actors as far as Oscar is concerned.
Also to be included is his performance in The Grand Budapest Hotel.
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Big Magilla »

Maybe Osment should have been considered in the lead category but aside from Brandon de Wilde in Shane, child actors were not nominated at all from the rise of Shirley Temple through the special Oscar to Hayley Mills in 1960. They were either given special juvenile awards or ignored altogether.

Beginning with Patty Duke and Mary Badham in 1962, they were occasionally nominated in the supporting category. It wasn't until Keisha Castle-Hughes in 2003's Whale Rider that a child was nominated in lead despite campaigning in support. Then it was back to business as usual for Hailee Stanfield who was nominated in support for her lead role in 2010's True Grit.

Personally, I thought Osment should have been nominated as Best Actor for the criminally underrated A.I.: Artificial Intelligence in 2001. I thought he was correctly positioned in support for The Sixth Sense as Bruce Willis was the nominal star.

As for the others I mentioned, Carrey, whose film and performance I personally did not like, was nominated for Best Actor by SAG and won the Globe for Best Actor-Comedy; Fiennes was nominated for a BAFTA and Damon was nominated for Best Actor-Drama at the Globes. Penn's nomination was a surprise, but it didn't come out of nowhere. He was nominated for Best Actor-Comedy at the Globes. The other four nominees, Denzel Washington. Russell Crowe, winner Kevin Spacey, and New York Film Critics winner Richard Farnsworth had all been nominated for Globes, and all but Farnsworth had been nominated by SAG. So, yes, if Penn hadn't been nominated, then Damon, Fiennes, or Carrey would have been the most likely to fill the fifth spot.

Ralph Fiennes, who has five SAG nominations for his film work and six BAFTA nominations for the same, is the most criminally underrated living actor as far as Oscar is concerned. He has only two Oscar nominations to his credit for Schindler's List and The English Patient. He should have also been nominated for Quiz Show, The End of the Affair, The Constant Gardener, and maybe even A Bigger Splash, in which case he'd be the Amy Adams of male actors as far as Oscar is concerned.
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Sabin »

Big Magilla wrote
Haley Joel Osment in lead actor over Matt Damon in The Talented Mr. Ripley and Ralph Fiennes in The End of the Affair? I don't think so.

There was also a lot of love for Jim Carrey that year for The Man in the Moon especially after being passed over for The Truman Show the year before.
dws1982 wrote
Ralph Fiennes was great and made my shortlist but he was not getting nominated that year. Osment would have easily gotten nominated over him, and probably over Matt Damon as well because a lot of people didn't like Ripley at the time, even though its reputation has grown over time.
That's my thinking. Despite a reasonably strong BAFTA showing, The End of the Affair also wasn't beloved by voters and I think Fiennes' performance was seen as too similar to his role in The English Patient. The Talented Mr. Ripley wasn't beloved at the time and Carrey's film (Man on the Moon) was a bomb. The fact that Sean Penn managed to get nominated for Sweet and Lowdown (which nobody saw coming) over Jim Carrey suggests Carrey's candidacy had plenty of problems. Why would Carrey get nominated against Osment when he couldn't against Penn?

I don't think that Osment for Best Actor is a sure thing (he's a child after all) but he gave an incredibly memorable, anchoring performance in a Best Picture nominee. With a proper Best Actor push, why not?
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by dws1982 »

Big Magilla wrote:Haley Joel Osment in lead actor over Matt Damon in The Talented Mr. Ripley and Ralph Fiennes in The End of the Affair? I don't think so.
Ralph Fiennes was great and made my shortlist but he was not getting nominated that year. Osment would have easily gotten nominated over him, and probably over Matt Damon as well because a lot of people didn't like Ripley at the time, even though its reputation has grown over time.
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Big Magilla »

Haley Joel Osment in lead actor over Matt Damon in The Talented Mr. Ripley and Ralph Fiennes in The End of the Affair? I don't think so.

There was also a lot of love for Jim Carrey that year for The Man in the Moon especially after being passed over for The Truman Show the year before.
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Sabin »

Again, I'm realizing I'm leaving too much fun on the table...

Had Haley Joel Osment been appropriately pushed to lead, I think he would've gotten a nomination over Sean Penn for Sweet and Lowdown. Best Actor would've looked like this:
*Russell Crowe, The Insider
*Richard Farnsworth, The Straight Story
*Haley Joel Osment, The Sixth Sense
*Kevin Spacey, American Beauty
*Denzel Washington, The Hurricane

Pretty great lineup, right?

For Best Supporting Actor, I think the obvious contenders would've been Christopher Plummer for The Insider and John Malkovich for Being John Malkovich, but I think the Academy would've given it to Chris Cooper for American Beauty. Clearly, there was a a lot of love for that film from the actors, it's a very memorable role, and he had a strong year with that film and October Sky.

Best Supporting Actor would've looked like this:
*Michael Caine, The Cider House Rules
*Chris Cooper, American Beauty
*Tom Cruise, Magnolia
*Michael Clarke Duncan, The Green Mile
*Jude Law, The Talented Mr. Ripley
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Big Magilla »

Oh, how I remember 1999 from the early days of this board.

I remember well the almost daily back-and-forth between Cam and Chloe Sevigney's cousin who quit the board after Chloe lost.

Chloe was definitely support and would have been a better choice than Angelina Jolie for the win. Similarly, Bennett was not only lead but the only one who could have beaten Hilary Swank for the win that year. The two were considered neck-and-neck up to the finish line.

As a side note, if you want to see where Bening's inspiration for her role came from, watch Rosalind Russell in 1936's Craig's Wife sometime.

Osment was definitely a co-lead, but Bruce Willis was the "official" lead, so it was a safe bet to place him in support. He would have been my choice for the win in the absence of Christopher Plummer who should have been the odds-on favorite to win for The Insider. I don't think Osment would have stood a chance in lead and may not have even been nominated, but he would certainly have been a better choice than Sean Penn's hamola job in Sweet and Lowdown. Osment was a very effective lead in lead in A.I.: Artificial Intelligence in a very weak year just two years later and couldn't get nominated for that so his pull like that of all child actors since the days of Jackie Cooper and Shirley Temple wasn't quite strong enough to land him a lead nomination no matter what he did.
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by dws1982 »

I think Bening would've won Supporting, and I wouldn't be dogmatic about her absolutely having to be in either category, but I think Lead is probably right.

Supporting is right for Sevigny, because it is all through Swank's point of view, although Sevigny in Support did mean that some smaller supporting performances from that film, like Jenetta Arnette, would never have any chance at recognition. And Osment is Lead. Co-lead, sure, and I know that being a child made Support an easier "get", but he was Lead, and I agree that they probably could've got him nominated there if they had pushed for it from the beginning.
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Re: Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Sabin »

Very interested in the Bening is Supporting takes.
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Correcting Oscar 1999

Post by Sabin »

Ah, 1999. “The best year for films since 1939.” I think some of the virtues of this year are a bit overrated. It was IMO a great year for very, very good films. 2001 is the year that’s chock full of masterpieces in my opinion. But what I wouldn’t give for a release schedule along the lines of 1999’s these days. Every Friday was a must see or a welcome surprise. No wonder my Freshman college grade turned out the way it was. It wasn’t going to parties, I can assure you of that.

I’ve been looking forward to this post since I started this idea a month or two ago. There are some interesting conversations I’d like to have.

Let’s start with Haley Joel Osment for The Sixth Sense. First up with 44.14% screen-time, he has twice the screentime of anyone else in his category save for Jude Law by 1-2%. But the reason for putting Haley Joel Osment in support is pretty simple. He’s a kid. That’s what you do with them. And to some degree I understand the inclination. Osment’s character both serves as a function of the story and is the story. Had Osment not been such a slam-dunk feat of casting, it’d be easier to see him as such. But I think he deserves listing as a lead for a few reasons. First off, the fact that twist aside The Sixth Sense has a bit more on its mind than one might initially have thought. It’s very much the story of two people (a therapist and his patient) at different challenging points in their lives who meet. Second, Osment’s character has a fair amount of off-screen existence besides the service he eventually provides for Willis. And third because Osment gave the most astonishing child performance in ages, he allowed for so much of the film to take place through his POV. A less-gifted performer might not have allowed for that.

Anyway, I think Osment should be considered a lead for The Sixth Sense but would he have managed a nomination? There’s really no way of knowing but I’m going to veer on the side of yes for one reason: despite an abundance of contenders for Best Actor, there really wasn’t much consensus besides Crowe, Spacey, and Washington. Richard Farnsworth couldn’t manage a SAG nomination, Jim Carrey did but didn’t end up with his nomination, Matt Damon faded, and Sean Penn came out of nowhere. Clearly, there was room for a surprise. Had a proper campaign been mounted, I think it’s in the realm of possibility, but I would accept anyone saying it was a bridge too far.

From my clear Best Supporting Actor choice we go to my even clearer Best Supporting Actress choice: Chloe Sevigny for Boys Don’t Cry, back in the days where Sevigny was as exciting a presence in film as anyone. Sevigny is in Boys Don’t Cry for 42.83% of the time, easily the most of her category but not quite in as stark contrast to her category competition. It’s been ages since I’ve seen Boys Don’t Cry so I don’t recall if Sevigny has much off-screen time apart from Swank. I’m pretty sure she’s persistently seen through Swank’s POV and her existence largely pivots around Swank’s story. I wonder if this is yet another story where because this is a queer story/because the two leads are the same sex, one gets de facto lumped into supporting whereas if they were different sexes that wouldn’t be the case. But for reference, Swank is on-screen for 61.63% of Boys Don’t Cry, which is more than 20% than Sevigny.

A fresher viewing of this film might convince me otherwise that they are both leads but going from my memory I think it’s appropriate to keep Sevigny in support. I should watch this fantastic film again.

Finally, let’s talk about Annette Bening in American Beauty. Something I find interesting is how we tend to defer to traditional family roles in designating lead and support. Mom and Dad are the leads, the Kids are support. I’ve been intrigued at how American Beauty might stand up to this kind of scrutiny and I wish I had the screen-time breakdown of Thora Birch among others to contrast because it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Thora Birch is on-screen more than Annette Bening. First, let’s just get the screen-time out of the way. Bening is on-screen for 23.10% of American Beauty, about half of Julianne Moore’s screen-time in The End of the Affair, about roughly a third or less than her nearest competitors. To contrast, Kevin Spacey is in American Beauty for 39.98% of the screen-time. It would’ve been the shortest winning performance since Louise Fletcher and the only performance shorter than Bening’s to win since was Nicole Kidman in The Hours and for farther contrast (not that it’s really asked) Michelle Williams is in The Fabelmans for 34.76% of the screen-time. Anyway, all those stats out the way…

I wrote about In America a bit later wondering if Samantha Morton should be considered supporting. It’s been ages since I’ve seen that film so I don’t have it that fresh in memory. But I do have American Beauty in memory and the best case I can make against her being a lead is that the film is ultimately about Kevin Spacey’s mid-life crisis and how everything ripples out from there. He’s the figure that touches everybody. She’s gone for a bit of the third act. By the end of it, it certainly doesn’t feel like I’ve been watching her story. She feels as much a satellite as Jane. I’m not sure she knows who Ricky Fitts is.

The case for Bening being a lead is the amount of off-screen life that she has. American Beauty may be about Lester Burnham and his mid-life crisis, but it’s also about the life crises that he triggers in the members of his family, each of whom have their own supporting players. Carolyn has Buddy Kane. Jane has Ricky Fitts and Angela. Ricky is the most supporting player with a life of his own with his father. Through that lens, clearly Annette Bening can’t be considered the same designation as Mena Suvari.

In the case of Annette Bening, I think both reads are appropriate. If somebody wanted to say “Yes, Kevin Spacey is the lead and all others are supporting,” I think that’s fine. I might go so far to say that Spacey, Bening, and Birch should all be considered leads. I vote to keep her where she is. On a related note, I’m still a bit surprised that American Beauty didn’t pick up more momentum in the supporting categories for Wes Bentley, Chris Cooper, and especially Thora Birch. I think some of those slots were ripe for the taking and the general sense I got on Oscar night was that voters were pretty enthusiastic about American Beauty on the whole.
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