Unofficial Academy Awards Discussion Board

Reza wrote:

taki15 wrote:To call Phillips a "creative force" is amusing. All he did was to shamelessly ape Scorsese from "Taxi Driver".

I don't think it was Phillips' intention to "ape" Taxi Driver or King of Comedy. He paid homage to both. And despite invoking strong memories of both those films he still managed to make Joker seem very original.

I think it's fantastic this film rubs so many out there the wrong way. Touching the public's nerve is always good.

This wasn't an homage, the entire film was a Taxi Driver knock-off. And knock-offs are inherently inferior to the originals.

And it always rubs me the wrong way seeing something this phony and superficial being hailed as some kind of seminal masterpiece.

1. I think if it's Baumbach over Gerwig, the ire remains but the energy is different.

2. Do I think that voters went "I can't vote for Gerwig because she's a women, so I'm voting for Phillips?" Of course not. Do I think that asserting individual preference as somehow exculpatory as opposed to intrinsic to the idea of entrenched habits and thought processes makes sense? Not for a minute.

3. I also think Phillips is hurt by the fact that he made comments that pretty much reinforce the whole need for this debate. He was also the de facto "open slot."

taki15 wrote:To call Phillips a "creative force" is amusing. All he did was to shamelessly ape Scorsese from "Taxi Driver".

I don't think it was Phillips' intention to "ape" Taxi Driver or King of Comedy. He paid homage to both. And despite invoking strong memories of both those films he still managed to make Joker seem very original.

I think it's fantastic this film rubs so many out there the wrong way. Touching the public's nerve is always good.

Reza wrote:

Precious Doll wrote:I looked at our boards predictions and only you (Reza) and myself predicted Todd Phillips for director. There were really only two reasons I included him (the 5th and final choice)

I added him because he was clearly the driving force behind the vision and success of Joker. It was also a film I not only enjoyed but actually thought was great cinema which had a lot to say about the ills in our society. I went in thinking it was going to be yet another comic book caper but within minutes the film took on a totally different feel using the comic book character as a catalyst to explore much deeper issues not usually the bane of comic book actioners. It was obviously taken seriously by the Academy because almost every branch nominated it resulting in those 11 nods.

He was not in my predictions but he had become my choice after finally seeing Joker just a week ago. Until then Baumbach had been my choice as well as my prediction, but I did wonder (as stated in another thread here to some derision) if voters might not want to separate him and Gerwig and there was no one among the other four who was going to be ignored to include both. Gerwig was my sixth choice under that scenario.

To call Phillips a "creative force" is amusing. All he did was to shamelessly ape Scorsese from "Taxi Driver".

Precious Doll wrote:I looked at our boards predictions and only you (Reza) and myself predicted Todd Phillips for director. There were really only two reasons I included him (the 5th and final choice)

I added him because he was clearly the driving force behind the vision and success of Joker. It was also a film I not only enjoyed but actually thought was great cinema which had a lot to say about the ills in our society. I went in thinking it was going to be yet another comic book caper but within minutes the film took on a totally different feel using the comic book character as a catalyst to explore much deeper issues not usually the bane of comic book actioners. It was obviously taken seriously by the Academy because almost every branch nominated it resulting in those 11 nods.

Reza wrote:

anonymous1980 wrote:

Mister Tee wrote: OH, ON EDIT: Does someone want to explain the Joker costume nomination?

It was at that moment that nomination was announced that I knew Todd Phillips got in Director.

There appears to be a simmering animosity overall towards Phillips getting a nod. On many forums people are up in arms over his inclusion. Is it because that fifth slot was automatically assumed to belong to Gerwig? There appears to be a feeling that she got snubbed because of gender bias. Isn't it possible that the voters just thought the other five directors were better. If Baumbach had got in instead of Phillips would there still be an uproar?

I think because opinion on Joker is so divided and Phillips appears to be the creative force behind it.

I looked at our boards predictions and only you (Reza) and myself predicted Todd Phillips for director. There were really only two reasons I included him (the 5th and final choice):

1) Joker has been such a huge hit (over $1 billion worldwide) and does have a solid bass of admirers so I assumed there would be enough voting directors to help him make the final five;

2) If Adam McKay can be nominated twice for best director & Peter Farrelly can be nominated once for best director over the last few years the directors branch of the Academy has proven that they don't hold peoples prior totally commercial aimed work solely for commercial purpo$e$ against them when voting for a more ambitious film from the same director.

I was torn between Pedro & Phillips but Joker was too big to ignore I thought. And Pain & Glory was starting do look pretty dead. Even Banderas who a few weeks ago looked like a sure bet was lucky to make the final five.

And like McKay and Farrelly before him Phillips is not winning an Oscar for directing Joker.

Another interesting fact today that is probably more appropriate in a thread of record breakers from this year nominees is that this year 62 women have been nominated and that is a record. Of course aside from the actress most of them are working behind the scenes and only Greta Gerwig has a real public profile and fanbase.

anonymous1980 wrote:

Mister Tee wrote: OH, ON EDIT: Does someone want to explain the Joker costume nomination?

It was at that moment that nomination was announced that I knew Todd Phillips got in Director.

There appears to be a simmering animosity overall towards Phillips getting a nod. On many forums people are up in arms over his inclusion. Is it because that fifth slot was automatically assumed to belong to Gerwig? There appears to be a feeling that she got snubbed because of gender bias. Isn't it possible that the voters just thought the other five directors were better. If Baumbach had got in instead of Phillips would there still be an uproar?

Eenusch wrote:Back before the precursors I thought that Annette Bening (The Report) and Maggie Smith (Downton Abbey) would be locks as Best Supporting Actress nominees...even wondered if this would finally be Bening's year to win an Oscar. My how things change quickly.

Supporting Actress was the weakest of the acting categories this year. Bening and Smith were place holders until the more interesting performances of the final five came along.

Bening's portrayal of Dianne Feinstein was a decent imitation but had no place to go. The script was all about the investigation with very little insight into the characters. The real robbery was the failure of the Academy to nominate her for her rapturous portrayal of Gloria Grahame in Film Stars Don't Die in Liverpool two years ago.

Smith's portrayal of the dowager in Downton Abbey was a mere shadow of what she did with the character in the TV series. Her scenes were limited and the few bon mots they gave her were not all that good. Of the many performances she could have been nominated for, and wasn't, this was the least of them.

Mister Tee wrote: OH, ON EDIT: Does someone want to explain the Joker costume nomination?

It was at that moment that nomination was announced that I knew Todd Phillips got in Director.

Thanks, Okri. Now I get what you were saying. Agreed.

Mister Tee, as usual, your analysis was spot on. And thank you for "explaining" what was the elephant in the room for me.

Btw I also predicted all 9 films in the top category but screwed up in the acting categories thinking diversity would rule big time this year. In fact I went overboard. I predicted the wrong black actress even though I had a feeling the Academy might not go for the zombie genre. And I also added Awkwafina even though I personally found her incredibly dull with the way she chose to play that character. So I'm glad the Academy saw sense although I was disappointed at the Nai Nai omission. Was also hoping right till the end to see a surprise inclusion of De Niro but it was sadly not to be. On top of all these misfires I even had Kang-ho Song on my list

I completely got the costume nod for Joker. His garish outfits, along with the makeup, enhanced Phoenix's performance. He "stood out" in a glaring stand-alone way because of them. All his over-the-top body contortions and facial flexing seemed enhanced due to his red and yellow costume which became an integral part of the film's look which the costume branch recognised. I really don't think it was a coat tail nod at all although it came at the cost of Rocketman getting in.

danfrank wrote:

Okri wrote:I don't think having middlebrow taste and the idea of entrenched racism is mutually exclusive. Especially since middlebrow taste often means films centered on cis/straight/white/male. And while there are definitely years where the idea of "OscarSoWhite" is a reasonable, if unfortunate, reflection of the cinematic gestalt, this year was emphatically not an example of that. Not that I think it's willfully racist.

I completely agree with your first two sentences. At the risk of sounding obtuse, I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying with the rest of your statement. Can you expound a bit? How is this year not an example of entrenched racism?

No problem.

There are years where, unfortunately, the slate of films that breaks through to oscar possibilities aren't a diverse slate. 2010 is a good example. That's a really white year. But unfortunately, that was reflective of the film year. I look at my own list and (restricting it to English language movies), the highest rated film featuring a non-white lead one is the uber-indie Night Catches Us. If you're frustrated at the lack of diversity in the line-up, AMPAS shoudn't be your target.

However, this year, that isn't the case. The writerly-indie makes it in fair regularly, but The Farewell missed (to a technical juggernaut but simple story in 1917, which makes it doubly frustrating). The Hollywood star delivers a truly acclaimed performance in a box office hit is a pretty solid bet for a nomination, but Jennifer Lopez missed out (and not to a best picture-coattails, but to a film with it's own controversy). No one saw Just Mercy in time and no one saw Clemency and I place those misses squarely on the studio (Neon clearly went all in for Parasite, but what the hell was Warner Bros doing with the former). They saw Parasite, but we know that foreign language films struggle to breakthrough in the supporting categories. International film got narrowed down to 4 European, one not, which was disappointing given the profile of the non-European entries. But the non-European one is gonna win and it's a huge hit, so let's not look a gift horse in the mouth, right (wrong, but still, good news is good news)

Okri wrote:I don't think having middlebrow taste and the idea of entrenched racism is mutually exclusive. Especially since middlebrow taste often means films centered on cis/straight/white/male. And while there are definitely years where the idea of "OscarSoWhite" is a reasonable, if unfortunate, reflection of the cinematic gestalt, this year was emphatically not an example of that. Not that I think it's willfully racist.

I completely agree with your first two sentences. At the risk of sounding obtuse, I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying with the rest of your statement. Can you expound a bit? How is this year not an example of entrenched racism?

Back before the precursors I thought that Annette Bening (The Report) and Maggie Smith (Downton Abbey) would be locks as Best Supporting Actress nominees...even wondered if this would finally be Bening's year to win an Oscar. My how things change quickly.