Re: Call Me By Your Name reviews
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:21 pm
... And this notion is also apparent by the fact that a gay couple must have a humorous, almost derogatory, heterosexual nickname.
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It's 1983, and it's still "the love that dare not speak its name" - which the title of this film is a kind of a reference to. There's a seemingly frank conversation between the three male characters about the possibility of Elio having sex with a girl (which is very obviously a coded one), but same sex/love is never explicitly discussed - the celebrated late monologue by the father is all about not using any concrete terms. And even the notion of calling your lover by your name - yes, it's about intimacy, about becoming "one" - but it's also about turning the act of sex/love between two men (this exchange of names is not applyable to heterosexual couple, it seems) into something which is too intimate, almost masturbatory, therefore able not to be named for what it really is.ITALIANO wrote:Oh you meant this. I thought it was about a handsome guy like Oliver picking a cute but definitely not hunky teenager like Elio.The Original BJ wrote:
I’m not saying the romance between Oliver and Elio couldn’t happen today — of course it could. As everyone as said, there’s no accounting for what people find attractive in a partner. I do think that, in 2018, the odds are significantly higher that Oliver would have another Oliver back at home to whom he is engaged, or have a phone app to have his pick of local summer flings in Italy while abroad, than they would be in the mid-80s. This is not in any way to suggest that Oliver views Elio as slim pickings, just that his romantic life would likely be pretty different today than in the era the movie is set, and so the circumstances in which Oliver and Elio form their relationship would be quite different as well.
Sorry then - you are right. Today it would be completely different (and this is why I wrote that I found myself missing those days while I was watching the movie). It could still happen, of course - guys do meet and have short-lived but vivid affairs, and couples like Oliver and Elio aren't that unusual - but many aspects would be different today, and probably less emotionally intense.
Oh you meant this. I thought it was about a handsome guy like Oliver picking a cute but definitely not hunky teenager like Elio.The Original BJ wrote:
I’m not saying the romance between Oliver and Elio couldn’t happen today — of course it could. As everyone as said, there’s no accounting for what people find attractive in a partner. I do think that, in 2018, the odds are significantly higher that Oliver would have another Oliver back at home to whom he is engaged, or have a phone app to have his pick of local summer flings in Italy while abroad, than they would be in the mid-80s. This is not in any way to suggest that Oliver views Elio as slim pickings, just that his romantic life would likely be pretty different today than in the era the movie is set, and so the circumstances in which Oliver and Elio form their relationship would be quite different as well.
We were hugry for love and - admittedly - for sex. And as both weren't that easy to get (love isn't too easy even today, but for sex you just have to look on the web), we ate them up when we found them. There was also, I believe, a fear of knowing too much about the other. But really, it's mostly about intensity.Sabin wrote:Now this is a good point. One of the few criticisms I have with 'Call Me By Your Name' is that we never get to know much about Oliver. Far more importantly, Elio never seems interested in knowing anything about Oliver. I still think he would want to know something but this is the best reasoning I've heard in its defense.Italiano wrote
And - but I repeat that I won't reply to the absurdities - often you DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW MUCH about the object of your love. Living that moment was the essence. Today's teenagers are certainly more comfortable than we were - society (at least in the Western world) and the web are there to support them
Since this is at least a more civil way to have a discussion with someone, I will engage with your question.ITALIANO wrote:Seriously, Original BJ, I might sound rude but sometimes I feel like I live in a parallel universe. I always read and appreciate your reviews (though sometimes I wonder if we saw the same movie). But I just can't underatand why the relationship in this movie couldn't happen today. In Americam movies, maybe - but why not in real life? Guess I will never know...
CalWilliam wrote:Thank you, Precious Doll. I’ve seen these three and they’re definitely good, though they didn’t resonate as deeply as Call Me by Your Name to me.Precious Doll wrote:Whilst not a 'summer of discoveries" Andre Techine's Being 17 (2016) is highly recommended - deals with a number of contemporary issues. Great story telling, beautifully acted by the cast and with a great sense of place. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4331970/referenceCalWilliam wrote:
I always like reading whatever you have to say about anything, and I’m glad your overall view of the film is good. Could you mention some of other those “summer of discoveries” titles? Not the obvious ones, of course, but some more obscure films that are worth discovering or mean something to you. You know, I’m a 25 young gay man, and my response to this film has been very emotional. I’m also a European, so it’s always very exhilarating for me to read your balanced and clear-headed points of view, which I share and understand.
Tomboy (2011) first film by Celine Sciamma (who also wrote Being 17) the characters in this French gem are much younger, and girls but it's absolutely lovely http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1847731/reference
Another Andre Techine film, one of his very best from 1993 Les Roseau Savage (Wild Reeds). Was hugely successful back in it's day and given it's setting, France early 1963's, also very political. Simply hypnotic http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111019/reference
I'm sure Marco and others will have more titles to contribute. If anymore come to mind I'll post them.
Publicly, I may have no mercy, but privately, I have sent you a private message earlier today...Uri wrote:
Marco has no mercy, not even for poor invalids...
The Original BJ wrote:Can you ever just disagree with anyone around here without making it some kind of holier-than-thou insult against that person's very being?ITALIANO wrote:Why..?The Original BJ wrote:(Were this movie taking place in 2017, obviously certain elements would be different, but I'd honestly find it a lot less believable that a guy like Oliver would fall for Elio at all.)
I don't have time to reply to any single absurdity which this thread is full of. You guys should get a life soon Just let me say that of course Precious Doll is right - each of us is attracted to different types, and while I personally wouldn't be interested in either Elio AND OLIVER, I accept and understand that one can find attractive a slim - but by the way not ugly - 17-year-old person. That's the beauty of life - just accept it, or you will really miss alot. I don't see why today such a relationship would be impossible... In America, maybe, where political correctness has killed any spontaneity. You need a holiday, Original BJ - or you simply watch too many movies. Come to Europe (As for Uri's complicated explanation of Oliver's attraction to Elio, it must be read to be believed).
Actually, I did go on a holiday recently, and it was to Europe, and every single person I met there seemed a hell of a lot nicer and more thoughtful and less self-absorbed than you.
Thank you, Uri, I’ll try to find it.Uri wrote:Another very non-American film for you, CalWilliam, is Katherine Brieiiat's A ma soeur!, or Fat Girl. Think about an R, or rather X rated version of the two French sisters from CMBYN.
Now this is a good point. One of the few criticisms I have with 'Call Me By Your Name' is that we never get to know much about Oliver. Far more importantly, Elio never seems interested in knowing anything about Oliver. I still think he would want to know something but this is the best reasoning I've heard in its defense.Italiano wrote
And - but I repeat that I won't reply to the absurdities - often you DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW MUCH about the object of your love. Living that moment was the essence. Today's teenagers are certainly more comfortable than we were - society (at least in the Western world) and the web are there to support them
Marco has no mercy, not even for poor invalids...The Original BJ wrote:Can you ever just disagree with anyone around here without making it some kind of holier-than-thou insult against that person's very being?ITALIANO wrote:Why..?The Original BJ wrote:(Were this movie taking place in 2017, obviously certain elements would be different, but I'd honestly find it a lot less believable that a guy like Oliver would fall for Elio at all.)
I don't have time to reply to any single absurdity which this thread is full of. You guys should get a life soon Just let me say that of course Precious Doll is right - each of us is attracted to different types, and while I personally wouldn't be interested in either Elio AND OLIVER, I accept and understand that one can find attractive a slim - but by the way not ugly - 17-year-old person. That's the beauty of life - just accept it, or you will really miss alot. I don't see why today such a relationship would be impossible... In America, maybe, where political correctness has killed any spontaneity. You need a holiday, Original BJ - or you simply watch too many movies. Come to Europe (As for Uri's complicated explanation of Oliver's attraction to Elio, it must be read to be believed).
Actually, I did go on a holiday recently, and it was to Europe, and every single person I met there seemed a hell of a lot nicer and more thoughtful and less self-absorbed than you.
Can you ever just disagree with anyone around here without making it some kind of holier-than-thou insult against that person's very being?ITALIANO wrote:Why..?The Original BJ wrote:(Were this movie taking place in 2017, obviously certain elements would be different, but I'd honestly find it a lot less believable that a guy like Oliver would fall for Elio at all.)
I don't have time to reply to any single absurdity which this thread is full of. You guys should get a life soon Just let me say that of course Precious Doll is right - each of us is attracted to different types, and while I personally wouldn't be interested in either Elio AND OLIVER, I accept and understand that one can find attractive a slim - but by the way not ugly - 17-year-old person. That's the beauty of life - just accept it, or you will really miss alot. I don't see why today such a relationship would be impossible... In America, maybe, where political correctness has killed any spontaneity. You need a holiday, Original BJ - or you simply watch too many movies. Come to Europe (As for Uri's complicated explanation of Oliver's attraction to Elio, it must be read to be believed).
Thank you, Precious Doll. I’ve seen these three and they’re definitely good, though they didn’t resonate as deeply as Call Me by Your Name to me.Precious Doll wrote:Whilst not a 'summer of discoveries" Andre Techine's Being 17 (2016) is highly recommended - deals with a number of contemporary issues. Great story telling, beautifully acted by the cast and with a great sense of place. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4331970/referenceCalWilliam wrote:
I always like reading whatever you have to say about anything, and I’m glad your overall view of the film is good. Could you mention some of other those “summer of discoveries” titles? Not the obvious ones, of course, but some more obscure films that are worth discovering or mean something to you. You know, I’m a 25 young gay man, and my response to this film has been very emotional. I’m also a European, so it’s always very exhilarating for me to read your balanced and clear-headed points of view, which I share and understand.
Tomboy (2011) first film by Celine Sciamma (who also wrote Being 17) the characters in this French gem are much younger, and girls but it's absolutely lovely http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1847731/reference
Another Andre Techine film, one of his very best from 1993 Les Roseau Savage (Wild Reeds). Was hugely successful back in it's day and given it's setting, France early 1963's, also very political. Simply hypnotic http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111019/reference
I'm sure Marco and others will have more titles to contribute. If anymore come to mind I'll post them.