The Academy is an organization with governance rules and standards. Members are invited to enter the organization. If they accept, it is implied that they accept the rules this organization is governed by. If they break the rules, the Academy should have the ability to expell. That's what they did with Harvey WeinsteinSabin wrote:1. I'm sure a case could be made for a lot of other people to be expelled as well. Are you comfortable going down that road?mlrg wrote
In answer to Sabin's question, my thoughtss:
Expel him from the Academy?
If his actions go against the Academy principles and ethical rules, yes.
*Take away his Academy Award?
No, but not because it's only one of the five black best actor winners. The award was voted before what happened.
*Make his reentry into the Academy conditional of psychiatric treatment?
Makes no sense. I'm sure that Smith is not the only Academy member in need of psychiatric treatment
*Make him do a public campaign against using violence as a first resort?
Agree. He could also return the Oscar to the Academy at the same time.
.
Telecast Discussion
Re: Telecast Discussion
Re: Telecast Discussion
1. I'm sure a case could be made for a lot of other people to be expelled as well. Are you comfortable going down that road?mlrg wrote
In answer to Sabin's question, my thoughtss:
Expel him from the Academy?
If his actions go against the Academy principles and ethical rules, yes.
*Take away his Academy Award?
No, but not because it's only one of the five black best actor winners. The award was voted before what happened.
*Make his reentry into the Academy conditional of psychiatric treatment?
Makes no sense. I'm sure that Smith is not the only Academy member in need of psychiatric treatment
*Make him do a public campaign against using violence as a first resort?
Agree. He could also return the Oscar to the Academy at the same time.
2. Cool.
3. Idk, just throwing out ideas.
4. Cool.
"How's the despair?"
Re: Telecast Discussion
I don't know about that. I certainly remember hearing outrage about the lack of black people nominated in 2015 not confined to Jada.OscarGuy wrote
First, let's also acknowledge that Will & Jada are incredibly calculating. #OscarsSoWhite didn't start out of a genuine concern that the Academy membership wasn't diverse enough. No, it came out of Jada's bitterness that Will wasn't nominated for Concussion. He wasn't much in the conversation, so it shouldn't have come as a shock, but she took advantage out of vindictiveness. I am all for the diversification of the Academy, but we need to keep that little tidbit in the back of our minds about what kind of people Will and Jada are.
Beyond that, hasn't the effect of #OscarSoWhite been almost uniformly positive?
"How's the despair?"
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OscarGuy
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Re: Telecast Discussion
First, let's also acknowledge that Will & Jada are incredibly calculating. #OscarsSoWhite didn't start out of a genuine concern that the Academy membership wasn't diverse enough. No, it came out of Jada's bitterness that Will wasn't nominated for Concussion. He wasn't much in the conversation, so it shouldn't have come as a shock, but she took advantage out of vindictiveness. I am all for the diversification of the Academy, but we need to keep that little tidbit in the back of our minds about what kind of people Will and Jada are.
Having said all that, I can see exactly where Flipp is coming from on the abuse thing. I thought and felt the same way about this performance. This is just the kind of toxic masculinity that Jane Campion was calling out in The Power of the Dog and Emerald Fennell was preaching against in Promising Young Woman. Will Smith, by the nature of his popularity and his gender, seemed to feel that he could escape recrimination over his actions if he claimed he was doing it for chivalrous aims. It's a classic deflection and he needs to be appropriately punished for that. A slap on the wrist isn't an appropriate punishment. It's physical assault and that's a heinous act.
While they are at it, they should also punish Mel Gibson and Alec Baldwin, both of whom have been credibly accused of physical assault and verbal abuse by others. Throw in more. Whatever they do, they should make it a precedent and update their bylaws to make sanctions tougher.
Having said all that, I can see exactly where Flipp is coming from on the abuse thing. I thought and felt the same way about this performance. This is just the kind of toxic masculinity that Jane Campion was calling out in The Power of the Dog and Emerald Fennell was preaching against in Promising Young Woman. Will Smith, by the nature of his popularity and his gender, seemed to feel that he could escape recrimination over his actions if he claimed he was doing it for chivalrous aims. It's a classic deflection and he needs to be appropriately punished for that. A slap on the wrist isn't an appropriate punishment. It's physical assault and that's a heinous act.
While they are at it, they should also punish Mel Gibson and Alec Baldwin, both of whom have been credibly accused of physical assault and verbal abuse by others. Throw in more. Whatever they do, they should make it a precedent and update their bylaws to make sanctions tougher.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Telecast Discussion
In answer to Sabin's question, my thoughtss:
Expel him from the Academy?
If his actions go against the Academy principles and ethical rules, yes.
*Take away his Academy Award?
No, but not because it's only one of the five black best actor winners. The award was voted before what happened.
*Make his reentry into the Academy conditional of psychiatric treatment?
Makes no sense. I'm sure that Smith is not the only Academy member in need of psychiatric treatment
*Make him do a public campaign against using violence as a first resort?
Agree. He could also return the Oscar to the Academy at the same time.
Expel him from the Academy?
If his actions go against the Academy principles and ethical rules, yes.
*Take away his Academy Award?
No, but not because it's only one of the five black best actor winners. The award was voted before what happened.
*Make his reentry into the Academy conditional of psychiatric treatment?
Makes no sense. I'm sure that Smith is not the only Academy member in need of psychiatric treatment
*Make him do a public campaign against using violence as a first resort?
Agree. He could also return the Oscar to the Academy at the same time.
Re: Telecast Discussion
"How's the despair?"
Re: Telecast Discussion
Got it.flipp525 wrote
What do you mean, “What’s your point?” It’s spelled out in the paragraph. I was musing about what some Oscar stalwarts such as Meryl would have done in the moment and later when he actually won the award. It was a thought in a post, as everyone has been posting here.
So, I didn't understand if there was a larger point you were trying to make or if it was just a musing. I just wanted clarity.
"How's the despair?"
Re: Telecast Discussion
What do you mean, “What’s your point?” It’s spelled out in the paragraph. I was musing about what some Oscar stalwarts such as Meryl would have done in the moment and later when he actually won the award. It was a thought in a post, as everyone has been posting here.
I never said you condoned what he did. I was pushing back against you saying “Let’s all just move on” which, I guess, includes all of us here as well in the “Let’s.” No, I’m not going to move on. It hasn’t even been a week.
I’m not the Academy and I don’t have a list of sanctions prepared. But, at a minimum, he should not be invited back next year to present Best Actress.
I never said you condoned what he did. I was pushing back against you saying “Let’s all just move on” which, I guess, includes all of us here as well in the “Let’s.” No, I’m not going to move on. It hasn’t even been a week.
I’m not the Academy and I don’t have a list of sanctions prepared. But, at a minimum, he should not be invited back next year to present Best Actress.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Re: Telecast Discussion
So, first of all: I don't condone Will Smith's actions. I wrote as much below. And my heartfelt apologies for your experiences .flipp525 wrote
But why should we all “move on”? I think that’s a really dangerous take at the moment (it’s been less than five fucking days for Chrissakes!) It seems like that’s exactly what the Smiths would love everyone to do right now. Move on, no big deal, nothing to see here, folks. This was very triggering for people who have been physically abused in any way and I’ll speak to that personally. Will Smith’s acceptance speech — the one he should never have been allowed to even give — used the classic language of an abuser. “I hit this person but it was out of LOVE.” The whole ordeal is just so disgusting, I think it would be unbefitting of the moment to quickly move on.
My next question is this: what are the other courses of action?
*Expel him from the Academy?
I don't really support that.
*Take away his Academy Award?
One of the five Oscars awarded to black men for Best Actor? No, probably a bad idea.
*Make his reentry into the Academy conditional of psychiatric treatment?
Sure. Sounds good.
*Make him do a public campaign against using violence as a first resort?
I'm actually into that as well.
What are your thoughts?
What's your point?flipp525 wrote
I'm curious what older stars like Meryl, Harrison Ford, Frances McDormand, Emma Thompson, etc. would have done in that situation. You’ll notice that a lot of the “old guard” was not in attendance this year. Lots of newbies. Frances in particular probably would have walked out or refused to present the award. I can tell you right now that Meryl would not have participated in a standing ovation.
"How's the despair?"
Re: Telecast Discussion
But why should we all “move on”? I think that’s a really dangerous take at the moment (it’s been less than five fucking days for Chrissakes!) It seems like that’s exactly what the Smiths would love everyone to do right now. “Move on, no big deal, nothing to see here, folks. Give me my follow-up nomination for Emancipation.” This was very triggering for people who have been physically abused in any way and I’ll speak to that personally. Will Smith’s acceptance speech — the one he should never have been allowed to even give — used the classic language of an abuser. “I hit this person but it was out of LOVE.” The whole ordeal is just so disgusting, I think it would be unbefitting of the moment to quickly move on.Sabin wrote:But either way: I support any measure that makes this moment go away, because increasingly I just don't know what good will come from dwelling on it any more. He should get to keep his Oscar but perhaps be suspended for one year. And let's all move on.
I'm curious what older stars like Meryl, Harrison Ford, Frances McDormand, Emma Thompson, etc. would have done in that situation. You’ll notice that a lot of the “old guard” was not in attendance this year. Lots of newbies. Frances in particular probably would have walked out or refused to present the award. I can tell you right now that Meryl would not have participated in a standing ovation.
Also, speaking of the old guard and to answer my own question above, why the hell was Anthony Hopkins of all people sucking up to Will in his presentation of the Best Actress award? I really could have done without that entirely.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Re: Telecast Discussion
I wrote a longer piece on something akin to this but deleted it because... I don't know, why tread into those waters?Mister Tee wrote
In fact -- while I certainly don't want to make any close analogy of this event to a double-murder -- there is one similarity: the person whose action shocked us was the last one in the world you'd have expected to be involved with something like this, because he'd always seemed, above everything else, so nice.
The most remarkable thing about this moment for me is that it seemed to occur at the apotheosis of a thirty some odd year project in the career of Will Smith to transform himself from "The Nice Rapper," to sitcom star, to blockbuster movie star, to one of the only movie stars left utilizing social media to expand his brand and building family empire along the way. He's carefully laid down prestige project, some successful (Ali, The Pursuit of Happyness) and some not (Seven Pounds, Concussion), but like many figures from comedy -- and in many ways, that's how Will Smith's career should be charted, as an actor in comedies turned serious actor -- he's been slowly building towards this moment of acceptance. This moment with King Richard felt like a coronation. He steamrolled his competition. He was given Jack Nicholson seats with his strong wife. He built to this moment by carefully curating his brand and his image to allow it to happen.... and in this moment, he shattered it. Unbelievable.
I'll leave it to others to speculate why he did it, but he's hurt his image immensely. Lost to the annals is a moment so telling it feels like it might have arrived from a satire, like In & Out, when earlier in the show BTS announced that their favorite movie ever is Aladdin... the Will Smith version, which I've never seen or had any intention to pretty much for one reason (when anyone tells me any of these live action remakes are any good, I'll check one out), but it's such a telling moment because Will Smith had the door open for him to a future of impacting generations to come headlining the *ONE* thing they're consuming, and he probably just threw it away. Disney won't cast him as a Genie or the like any time soon, whether it's fair or not.
Anyway, Hollywood -- which is largely full of white liberals who do not like disturbance -- is going nuts over this. There's probably a little too much handwringing. Jim Carrey condemned his actions and social media rightly pointed out that when accepting some award twenty-five years ago, he forced a kiss on presenter Alicia Silverstone when she was 19. Not good. But either way: I support any measure that makes this moment go away, because increasingly I just don't know what good will come from dwelling on it any more. He should get to keep his Oscar but perhaps be suspended for one year. And let's all move on.
"How's the despair?"
Re: Telecast Discussion
I was one of the children who witnessed the Challenger explosion while in school and it was very shocking and upsetting. We didn’t fully understand what exactly had happened until our teacher started to cry and then we knew it was bad.
This is not on the same level as the other events that have been mentioned (although O.J.’s white Bronco chase was absolutely must-see TV and everyone was glued to their screens), but I would also cite Tonya Harding’s long program with the theme from “Jurassic Park” playing during the 1994 Olympics. There was so much drama that had led up to that night and it played out in quite spectacular fashion with Harding halting her program to complain to the judges about her shoelaces or whatever.
The news that Will Smith was asked to leave and refused is, I think, a leak from the Academy because of how the public is reacting to Smith being allowed to not only stay at the event, but then receiving the night’s top honor and receiving a standing ovation. People are very grossed out about that. I think we’ve moved past the “slap on the wrist” stage. The Academy’s will not let it’s reputation slide any further by letting him get away with this.
Also, I told you all Jessica Chastain would win back in September!
This is not on the same level as the other events that have been mentioned (although O.J.’s white Bronco chase was absolutely must-see TV and everyone was glued to their screens), but I would also cite Tonya Harding’s long program with the theme from “Jurassic Park” playing during the 1994 Olympics. There was so much drama that had led up to that night and it played out in quite spectacular fashion with Harding halting her program to complain to the judges about her shoelaces or whatever.
The news that Will Smith was asked to leave and refused is, I think, a leak from the Academy because of how the public is reacting to Smith being allowed to not only stay at the event, but then receiving the night’s top honor and receiving a standing ovation. People are very grossed out about that. I think we’ve moved past the “slap on the wrist” stage. The Academy’s will not let it’s reputation slide any further by letting him get away with this.
Also, I told you all Jessica Chastain would win back in September!
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Re: Telecast Discussion
Jesus, okay, to be clear: no it’s not crazier than 9/11. To be fair, I didn’t really see those events occur live.
As for the O.J. Simpson Bronco chase: Yes, I was a bit young for that. I certainly knew about it but again it wasn’t really something I watched develop live. When I learned about it… I don’t know, it was a car on the freeway.
I didn’t see the Challenger explode. I didn’t see Budd Dwyer. I’ll keep searching my memory but I’m willing to stand by my assertion than this is the craziest thing tbh I’ve seen on television but I’ll add the word “live.”
As for the O.J. Simpson Bronco chase: Yes, I was a bit young for that. I certainly knew about it but again it wasn’t really something I watched develop live. When I learned about it… I don’t know, it was a car on the freeway.
I didn’t see the Challenger explode. I didn’t see Budd Dwyer. I’ll keep searching my memory but I’m willing to stand by my assertion than this is the craziest thing tbh I’ve seen on television but I’ll add the word “live.”
"How's the despair?"
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Big Magilla
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Re: Telecast Discussion
I didn't see the JFK assassination live but as soon as the news broke on a Friday, people turned on their radios at work as events of the day enfolded - businesses for the most part didn't have TVs at the time.
I did, however, see Jack Ruby shoot Lee Harvey Oswald on live TV Saturday morning. It seemed surreal, as if I was watching a movie rather than a real- life event.
I was living in California when 9/11 happened. I was lying in bed with the radio on when the first plane hit. I got up and turned on the TV where they showed the second plane hitting. I was driving to work when the first tower fell. It got worse as the day went on. One of my employees was worried that his sister, a stockbroker in one of the buildings, might have been killed. It turned out she was. One of my brothers, who lived in Staten Island at the time, was a letter carrier in Lower Manhattan who was in a carpool with some of the firefighters who worked at the firehouse that suffered the heaviest losses. Not sure if any of those killed were in his carpool, he doesn't like to talk about it, but he soon took early retirement after. He must have been suffering from PTSD, but it was never diagnosed as such.
I did, however, see Jack Ruby shoot Lee Harvey Oswald on live TV Saturday morning. It seemed surreal, as if I was watching a movie rather than a real- life event.
I was living in California when 9/11 happened. I was lying in bed with the radio on when the first plane hit. I got up and turned on the TV where they showed the second plane hitting. I was driving to work when the first tower fell. It got worse as the day went on. One of my employees was worried that his sister, a stockbroker in one of the buildings, might have been killed. It turned out she was. One of my brothers, who lived in Staten Island at the time, was a letter carrier in Lower Manhattan who was in a carpool with some of the firefighters who worked at the firehouse that suffered the heaviest losses. Not sure if any of those killed were in his carpool, he doesn't like to talk about it, but he soon took early retirement after. He must have been suffering from PTSD, but it was never diagnosed as such.
Re: Telecast Discussion
The Challenger disaster happened during lunch for me when I was in 10th grade. I was in the library watching it on tv with a handful of other students and I recall a lot of confusion at first about what happened and then commentators and viewers realizing it had exploded. I told people when I went to my next class and then an announcement was made over the PA. I remember watching a lot of news coverage on tv after I got home.
I was teaching when 9/11 happened. We had tvs in every classroom so that we could show students 'Channel 1' at the beginning of the day during homeroom. The first plane hit toward the end of 1st hour and somebody told me about it during the class change so I turned on the tv. My next class saw the second plane hit live and it was a pretty somber day after that,
Princess Di and JFK Jr. dying had very little impact for me. My mom has told me about where she was when JFK was assassinated. She was teaching at the time and it was a very big deal. They weren't watching it live on tv, though.
I was teaching when 9/11 happened. We had tvs in every classroom so that we could show students 'Channel 1' at the beginning of the day during homeroom. The first plane hit toward the end of 1st hour and somebody told me about it during the class change so I turned on the tv. My next class saw the second plane hit live and it was a pretty somber day after that,
Princess Di and JFK Jr. dying had very little impact for me. My mom has told me about where she was when JFK was assassinated. She was teaching at the time and it was a very big deal. They weren't watching it live on tv, though.