ATWT
The whole Luke/Noah non-kissing issue has generated HUGE publicity; the LA Times has reported on it, TMZ has reported on it, an AP article has gone around the world, CNN did a piece about it, and apparently even The Daily Show may do something about it.
Nelson Branco, who covers soap operas for TVGuide Canada, has written a very revealing piece for Out, in which we discover that P&G is "panicking" about what to do, that competing soaps would "kill" for this kind of publicity and ratings gold, and that Terri Colombino does, in fact, have a vagina.
The Nuke Files
An exclusive peek behind the scenes of the As the World Turns controversy.
By Nelson Branco
As The World Turns is finding out there is such a thing as bad publicity. The CBS sudser is making international headlines as fans protest the show -- and some boycott the entire network -- until gay supercouple Noah Mayer (Jake Silbermann) and Luke Snyder (Van Hansis) are given another kiss.
“Nuke,” as fans call the couple, have only kissed twice -- both six months ago, in a highly publicized event that drew both critical applause and high ratings. But the soap has been awkwardly avoiding all physical contact ever since the two young teenagers became an official couple. There was even a Valentine's Day montage during which every couple in Oakdale except for Nuke kissed -- they merely hugged.
Now the show's own actors are speaking up about the controversy.
Austin Peck (Brad) and Terri Colombino (Katie) -- whose steamy, straight sex scenes are by far the most racy on the show -- don't mince words when asked about the Nuke cool-down. “ATWT got scared off because there were two men,” Peck tells Out. Colombino says there's one simple reason her character's sex life won't suffer the same fate: “I have a vagina.”
It's possible the protests of the past week may still spark a positive outcome. A veteran actor on the show tells Out, “Producers are rethinking their decision. To say they are panicking is an understatement.”
CBS' senior vice-president of daytime TV Barbara Bloom has said that Luke and Noah's romance will continue. "If that means there is a natural progression to the physical relationship, I would be in support of it," she told the AP.
Of course they would, says the veteran actor. “Now the powers-that-be are wondering how to turn the media attention to their advantage,” he says. “I personally wouldn't be surprised if Noah and Luke kissed by May sweeps. There's an old saying in soaps -- make them wait. And perhaps that's been their intention all this time. Soaps are dying, and losing audience every day -- and they've been handed a life jacket. We'd be dumb not to put it on.”
A publicist for the show itself offered Out a lukewarm statement of support: “We've purposely told Luke and Noah's story slowly to bring our viewers along with us and engage them -- which we've clearly done... We are telling Luke and Noah's story in the most authentic way we can, being respectful of all the people who watch the show.”
Procter & Gamble Co., which owns and operates the 52 year-old soap, last featured a gay character in 1988. But the advertising giant still maintains that there is no discrimination at work here. “There's no kissing ban,” maintains Jeannie Tharrington, a spokeswoman for Procter & Gamble Productions. She defends her company's creative decision to pan away from any affection between Nuke: "It's always hard to please a diverse audience." Of course, that audience includes another protest from the right-wing American Family Association, which claims P&G is the “top pro-homosexual sponsor on television.”
Roger Newcomb, the major Nuke fan from Rockland County, New York, who spearheaded the fan protests of the show, points out that in the world of daytime hijinks, Luke and Noah's story is fairly tame. “This is a show that has told stories on kidnapped babies, mothers working as prostitutes, meth addiction and murders this past year, yet they have no qualms over offending anyone with that kind of material,” Newcomb says. “But to show two men who love each other showing affection -- well, that's just too taboo for them.”
Nuke's portrayers have been quiet on the brewing controversy, though Hansis recently spoke to Soaps In Depth. “I don't write the show, and so I'm the wrong person to talk about that,” he said. “I think the show is telling the Nuke story very well. And there is a lot of support behind the couple from P&G and CBS.” As for the visible lack of intimacy, Hansis said, “It's important as an actor to show that. To show the connection, that's what people do in real life. They touch each other. It makes sense that if Noah and Luke are a couple they would be very close and intimate. So that's kind of what we go for.”
One rival daytime executive suggests that another network should pen its own gay love story -- but unlike ATWT, tell it properly. “Clearly there's a demand out there,” the executive says. “And we wouldn't be shy about showing any kissing. We'd kill for this kind of publicity!”
Edited By Penelope on 1204670828
Nelson Branco, who covers soap operas for TVGuide Canada, has written a very revealing piece for Out, in which we discover that P&G is "panicking" about what to do, that competing soaps would "kill" for this kind of publicity and ratings gold, and that Terri Colombino does, in fact, have a vagina.
The Nuke Files
An exclusive peek behind the scenes of the As the World Turns controversy.
By Nelson Branco
As The World Turns is finding out there is such a thing as bad publicity. The CBS sudser is making international headlines as fans protest the show -- and some boycott the entire network -- until gay supercouple Noah Mayer (Jake Silbermann) and Luke Snyder (Van Hansis) are given another kiss.
“Nuke,” as fans call the couple, have only kissed twice -- both six months ago, in a highly publicized event that drew both critical applause and high ratings. But the soap has been awkwardly avoiding all physical contact ever since the two young teenagers became an official couple. There was even a Valentine's Day montage during which every couple in Oakdale except for Nuke kissed -- they merely hugged.
Now the show's own actors are speaking up about the controversy.
Austin Peck (Brad) and Terri Colombino (Katie) -- whose steamy, straight sex scenes are by far the most racy on the show -- don't mince words when asked about the Nuke cool-down. “ATWT got scared off because there were two men,” Peck tells Out. Colombino says there's one simple reason her character's sex life won't suffer the same fate: “I have a vagina.”
It's possible the protests of the past week may still spark a positive outcome. A veteran actor on the show tells Out, “Producers are rethinking their decision. To say they are panicking is an understatement.”
CBS' senior vice-president of daytime TV Barbara Bloom has said that Luke and Noah's romance will continue. "If that means there is a natural progression to the physical relationship, I would be in support of it," she told the AP.
Of course they would, says the veteran actor. “Now the powers-that-be are wondering how to turn the media attention to their advantage,” he says. “I personally wouldn't be surprised if Noah and Luke kissed by May sweeps. There's an old saying in soaps -- make them wait. And perhaps that's been their intention all this time. Soaps are dying, and losing audience every day -- and they've been handed a life jacket. We'd be dumb not to put it on.”
A publicist for the show itself offered Out a lukewarm statement of support: “We've purposely told Luke and Noah's story slowly to bring our viewers along with us and engage them -- which we've clearly done... We are telling Luke and Noah's story in the most authentic way we can, being respectful of all the people who watch the show.”
Procter & Gamble Co., which owns and operates the 52 year-old soap, last featured a gay character in 1988. But the advertising giant still maintains that there is no discrimination at work here. “There's no kissing ban,” maintains Jeannie Tharrington, a spokeswoman for Procter & Gamble Productions. She defends her company's creative decision to pan away from any affection between Nuke: "It's always hard to please a diverse audience." Of course, that audience includes another protest from the right-wing American Family Association, which claims P&G is the “top pro-homosexual sponsor on television.”
Roger Newcomb, the major Nuke fan from Rockland County, New York, who spearheaded the fan protests of the show, points out that in the world of daytime hijinks, Luke and Noah's story is fairly tame. “This is a show that has told stories on kidnapped babies, mothers working as prostitutes, meth addiction and murders this past year, yet they have no qualms over offending anyone with that kind of material,” Newcomb says. “But to show two men who love each other showing affection -- well, that's just too taboo for them.”
Nuke's portrayers have been quiet on the brewing controversy, though Hansis recently spoke to Soaps In Depth. “I don't write the show, and so I'm the wrong person to talk about that,” he said. “I think the show is telling the Nuke story very well. And there is a lot of support behind the couple from P&G and CBS.” As for the visible lack of intimacy, Hansis said, “It's important as an actor to show that. To show the connection, that's what people do in real life. They touch each other. It makes sense that if Noah and Luke are a couple they would be very close and intimate. So that's kind of what we go for.”
One rival daytime executive suggests that another network should pen its own gay love story -- but unlike ATWT, tell it properly. “Clearly there's a demand out there,” the executive says. “And we wouldn't be shy about showing any kissing. We'd kill for this kind of publicity!”
Edited By Penelope on 1204670828
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Akash, one of the things that my study of history has taught me is that, really, there is nothing "minimal" in the world and its impact on society. Yes, the situation in Darfur and Iraq and other places around the world are dire. Yes, more needs to be done about poverty and the health care situation. At the same time, however, a program as "minimal" as As the World Turns can have a profound impact on culture, as part of the continuum of that culture. The fact that this story is now being reported around the world (it's on the BBC, CNN, MSNBC, etc.) creates a dialogue about how we treat each other, about gender issues (why, for example, two men kissing is so frightening to people), on how different cultures approach the issue, etc.
Compare, for example, the chaste relationship between Luke and Noah on ATWT to the very physical relationship between Roman and Deniz on the German soap opera Alles was Zählt.
Incidentally, ATWT is currently the subject of a study by MIT professor Sam Ford; he recently posted the following on the PGP Classic Soaps Blog:
I am the project manager of a research group called the Convergence Culture Consortium at MIT. This semester, I'm teaching a course on the history and current state of the American soap opera here at MIT's Program in Comparative Media Studies. We have a small group of students for this elective class, including not just MIT students but a cross-enrolled student from neighboring Harvard University, who are spending the semester immersing themselves in the world of Oakdale, Illinois.
Starting at the beginning of last month, the class has been following the daily lives of the Hugheses, Snyders, Stewarts, Ryans and all the other characters that populate As the World Turns landscape, as well as delving into the history of the American soap opera, ATWT itself, and academic work on soaps.
We meet each Monday night to watch the previous week's episodes of ATWT as a group, and the class is able to rely on one another to help piece together character histories and relationships. So far, the students have been drawing on soap opera discussion boards, Web sites, YouTube, Wikipedia, and Julie Poll's 1996 book on the show to help understand the complicated pasts of these characters.
We've even been using YouTube to watch 1960s clips of the Hughes family, as well as the 2000 ATWT episode celebrating the 40th anniversary of Don Hastings' and Eileen Fulton's portrayals of Lisa and Bob. When we started the semester, we discussed watching a variety of other shows to compare them against ATWT, but the students have decided that this show has more intrigue and rich history than they could possibly learn in a semester and have thus decided to concentrate solely on World Turns for their taste of American soaps.
None of the students who signed up for the class identify themselves as American soaps fan, although one--a British native--has been a fan of soaps in his country. The students have thus had a chance to test out and challenge some of their assumptions and stereotypes about what soaps are, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the students have become interested in the fates of these characters and some particularly obsessed with learning the pasts of these characters.
One student has already taken to editing Wikipedia pages on the show, while another has admitted to losing significant amounts of time watching Luke and Noah videos on YouTube.
Procter & Gamble Productions has invited my class and me to post regular updates here on our progress of studying this historic show this semester, and we're excited to share our thoughts as the class comes to learn the complicated history of Oakdale and becomes immersed in the current show.
I personally came to this class after spending two years researching soap opera fan communities, the relationship between fans and soap opera producers, and the changes in how soaps tell their stories in the current age, as well as what I think is essential for the long-term continuation of these "worlds without end" that I feel are unmatched in the type of stories they tell and the depth of fan involvement they invite, at a time when the television industry is particularly interested in "engagement." I argue in my work that the American soap opera is, along with the world of pro wrestling and superhero comic book universes, the best articulation of what I call an "immersive story world" that invites not just deep viewing but community-building around these entertainment forms. See more of my work in http://cms.mit.edu/research/theses/SamFord2007.pdf this draft of my thesis, which I am continuing to revise.
Personally, I'm a lifelong viewer of As the World Turns, which has consistently been "my story," as my grandmother called it. My grandmother watched. My mom watched. And now I have created viewing as a regular routine with my wife. I realize that 25-year-old males may not be P&G's target demographic for this show, but I personally believe ATWT is unmatched both in its storytelling potential and in having a veteran cast of some of the best actors in daytime, as well as the richest history of any show on television.
I'm also co-editing a collection of essays on the current state of soap operas with Dr. Abigail Derecho of Columbia College Chicago and Dr. Lee Harrington of Miami University, which will include essays by both academics and fans and interviews with academics who wrote pioneering pieces on soaps and some key people from the soap opera industry. I will be speaking about my work on soaps at conferences in Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Santa Barbara this spring and would appreciate any feedback readers might have. Feel free to contact me at mailto:samford@mit.edu">samford@mit.edu.
I plan to share regular updates on my class' perspective as the class moves along, but to start with here are a few notes:
-The Luke/Noah relationship is by far the storyline of greatest interest to my class, and there is continuous debate over how the show will progress the relationship. The class has also demonstrated strong interest in the outcome of the custody battle, which we will be watching on Monday night;
-Perhaps defying what one might stereotypically expect from target demographics, this group of 20-somethings have most continuously said that favorites on the show include Elizabeth Hubbard's portrayal of Lucinda Walsh and Ellen Dolan's Margo Hughes. Austin Peck's Brad Snyder is also a strong class favorite.
Throughout the spring, I plan to share the perspectives of various students, but if you want to read what the class is saying on a regular basis, a significant portion of their work in the class comes in the form of http://mitsoaps.wordpress.com/ our class blog. Feel free to stop over that way and even leave comments to agree with, argue, or add to the class' thoughts.
Edited By Penelope on 1204590445
Compare, for example, the chaste relationship between Luke and Noah on ATWT to the very physical relationship between Roman and Deniz on the German soap opera Alles was Zählt.
Incidentally, ATWT is currently the subject of a study by MIT professor Sam Ford; he recently posted the following on the PGP Classic Soaps Blog:
I am the project manager of a research group called the Convergence Culture Consortium at MIT. This semester, I'm teaching a course on the history and current state of the American soap opera here at MIT's Program in Comparative Media Studies. We have a small group of students for this elective class, including not just MIT students but a cross-enrolled student from neighboring Harvard University, who are spending the semester immersing themselves in the world of Oakdale, Illinois.
Starting at the beginning of last month, the class has been following the daily lives of the Hugheses, Snyders, Stewarts, Ryans and all the other characters that populate As the World Turns landscape, as well as delving into the history of the American soap opera, ATWT itself, and academic work on soaps.
We meet each Monday night to watch the previous week's episodes of ATWT as a group, and the class is able to rely on one another to help piece together character histories and relationships. So far, the students have been drawing on soap opera discussion boards, Web sites, YouTube, Wikipedia, and Julie Poll's 1996 book on the show to help understand the complicated pasts of these characters.
We've even been using YouTube to watch 1960s clips of the Hughes family, as well as the 2000 ATWT episode celebrating the 40th anniversary of Don Hastings' and Eileen Fulton's portrayals of Lisa and Bob. When we started the semester, we discussed watching a variety of other shows to compare them against ATWT, but the students have decided that this show has more intrigue and rich history than they could possibly learn in a semester and have thus decided to concentrate solely on World Turns for their taste of American soaps.
None of the students who signed up for the class identify themselves as American soaps fan, although one--a British native--has been a fan of soaps in his country. The students have thus had a chance to test out and challenge some of their assumptions and stereotypes about what soaps are, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the students have become interested in the fates of these characters and some particularly obsessed with learning the pasts of these characters.
One student has already taken to editing Wikipedia pages on the show, while another has admitted to losing significant amounts of time watching Luke and Noah videos on YouTube.
Procter & Gamble Productions has invited my class and me to post regular updates here on our progress of studying this historic show this semester, and we're excited to share our thoughts as the class comes to learn the complicated history of Oakdale and becomes immersed in the current show.
I personally came to this class after spending two years researching soap opera fan communities, the relationship between fans and soap opera producers, and the changes in how soaps tell their stories in the current age, as well as what I think is essential for the long-term continuation of these "worlds without end" that I feel are unmatched in the type of stories they tell and the depth of fan involvement they invite, at a time when the television industry is particularly interested in "engagement." I argue in my work that the American soap opera is, along with the world of pro wrestling and superhero comic book universes, the best articulation of what I call an "immersive story world" that invites not just deep viewing but community-building around these entertainment forms. See more of my work in http://cms.mit.edu/research/theses/SamFord2007.pdf this draft of my thesis, which I am continuing to revise.
Personally, I'm a lifelong viewer of As the World Turns, which has consistently been "my story," as my grandmother called it. My grandmother watched. My mom watched. And now I have created viewing as a regular routine with my wife. I realize that 25-year-old males may not be P&G's target demographic for this show, but I personally believe ATWT is unmatched both in its storytelling potential and in having a veteran cast of some of the best actors in daytime, as well as the richest history of any show on television.
I'm also co-editing a collection of essays on the current state of soap operas with Dr. Abigail Derecho of Columbia College Chicago and Dr. Lee Harrington of Miami University, which will include essays by both academics and fans and interviews with academics who wrote pioneering pieces on soaps and some key people from the soap opera industry. I will be speaking about my work on soaps at conferences in Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Santa Barbara this spring and would appreciate any feedback readers might have. Feel free to contact me at mailto:samford@mit.edu">samford@mit.edu.
I plan to share regular updates on my class' perspective as the class moves along, but to start with here are a few notes:
-The Luke/Noah relationship is by far the storyline of greatest interest to my class, and there is continuous debate over how the show will progress the relationship. The class has also demonstrated strong interest in the outcome of the custody battle, which we will be watching on Monday night;
-Perhaps defying what one might stereotypically expect from target demographics, this group of 20-somethings have most continuously said that favorites on the show include Elizabeth Hubbard's portrayal of Lucinda Walsh and Ellen Dolan's Margo Hughes. Austin Peck's Brad Snyder is also a strong class favorite.
Throughout the spring, I plan to share the perspectives of various students, but if you want to read what the class is saying on a regular basis, a significant portion of their work in the class comes in the form of http://mitsoaps.wordpress.com/ our class blog. Feel free to stop over that way and even leave comments to agree with, argue, or add to the class' thoughts.
Edited By Penelope on 1204590445
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
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OscarGuy
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It's systemic, Akash. Prejudice is the main cause of nearly every problem in the world. It's propegated by these religious groups preaching forced morality, which in turn leads to mistrust and isolationism. Whether you want to see it as part of a larger whole is your decision, but one step at a time and equal treatment for everyone is one step towards that goal. If Proctor and Gamble can stand up to these religious zealots in the interest of fairness and equality, then it's a victory and an erosion of the control these nutties have on our society. It is an important step, IMO, in the global war on intolerance. For, we can't begin to heal the hurts of the world if we don't destroy the holds those who propagate it have on our culture.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
I'm gonna get so much flack for this -- and I admit I know nothing about this show, its main characters or its actors, and please know that my post here has nothing to do with soap operas, or fans of soap operas, or gay men who watch soap operas to jack off to hot guys, or Penelope, or anyone else -- but aren't there more important things to protest? I mean, don't get me wrong, I can see why this bothers gay fans of the show (or fans of the storyline), and everyone's intentions are in the right place but man alive! How about protesting the war, or a livable minimum wage, or immigration rights, or the Israel Lobby, or hell -- if it must be gay -- the still homophobic regulations for donating blood, or immigration rights for gay couples, or unhealthy media images that undoubtedly lead to unhealthy lifestyles and teen suicides...
Two guys kissing on a soap? I'm just saying, it's kind of a First World problem.
Edited By Akash on 1204511624
Two guys kissing on a soap? I'm just saying, it's kind of a First World problem.
Edited By Akash on 1204511624
From the AP; there's a quote here from CBS Daytime Honcho Barbara Bloom that clearly indicates it's P&G that is doing the censoring and that if CBS was running the show, not only would Luke and Noah be kissing more, they'd even be making love--CBS knows that Nuke is drawing in newer, younger viewers to the show, and that's a good thing.
Unexpected Protest at a Soap
By DAVID BAUDER – 1 hour ago
NEW YORK (AP) — The love affair between two young men on the venerable CBS soap opera "As the World Turns" has triggered a protest campaign by angry viewers.
It's just not the sort of protest you'd expect.
Fans of the fictional romance between Luke Snyder and Noah Mayer are baffled about why the two characters haven't kissed on-screen since September, wondering whether it's a sign of squeamishness by CBS or show sponsors Procter & Gamble Co.
The fans have started a letter-writing campaign, posted an online petition and even have a Web site that counts the days, hours, minutes and seconds since Luke and Noah last locked lips.
"We totally support this show and applaud the show for doing this story line," said Roger Newcomb, a computer worker from New York's northern suburbs and the man behind the campaign. "We just don't understand why they have to be censored or treated differently."
"As the World Turns," which premiered in 1956, had the first gay male character in daytime drama in 1988. Last August was another milestone — believed to be the first time two gay men kissed on a soap — when Luke surprised Noah with the sign of affection. [Note: it was actually the other way around--Noah surprised Luke with the kiss.]
They kissed again in September, at a time Noah was still coming to grips with being gay. But since officially becoming a couple, their lips have been sealed.
Fans first sensed the new attitude around Christmas, during a tender scene where the two men proclaimed their love for one another. It was clear they were about to kiss, but the camera instead panned up and focused on some mistletoe.
"I've been watching soaps for decades," Newcomb said, "and that doesn't happen."
Valentine's Day featured fantasy sequences involving several of the show's couples. All the stories ended in a kiss, except for Luke and Noah's. They hugged.
That's when the campaign started.
"There are some people who want to see sex between Luke and Noah," said 34-year-old Theresa Webber, who lives north of Boston. "I've been watching soaps long enough to know that they're a teenage couple, so it's not going to happen anyway. But for them to not kiss at all, it's a little extreme."
The soap is owned, produced and written by Procter & Gamble Productions Inc., a subsidiary of the consumer giant that makes Bounty, Crest, Pampers, Mr. Clean and Ivory soap. CBS executives consult on the series, but the creative direction is set by P&G.
There's no kissing ban, said Jeannie Tharrington, spokeswoman for Procter & Gamble Productions, although she wouldn't say what will happen in future shows. She explained the mistletoe shot as a "creative decision."
"It's always hard to please a diverse audience," Tharrington said, "and we have a diverse audience."
Webber recalls reading a handful of letters in soap opera publications after last summer's first kiss along the lines of "I don't care if Luke is gay, but I don't want to see it."
Barbara Bloom, CBS senior vice president for daytime, said there was a "minimal" negative reaction from viewers about the story line, although she couldn't define what that meant. There was apparently no organized campaign by conservative or parent advocacy groups that monitor television content.
"It's entirely new to me," said Tim Winter, president of the Parents Television Council. "I hadn't heard anything about it."
The American Family Association Web site has a "take-action alert" against Procter & Gamble, calling the company the "top pro-homosexual sponsor on television." The group bases its determination on the number of P&G products advertised on prime-time TV shows with gay or lesbian characters.
"As the World Turns" isn't even mentioned.
Webber and Newcomb said they've been more bothered by other things they have seen on the soap, like when a 14-year-old boy shot a man who was attacking his mother. One character is so desperate for a baby that she slept with her ex-brother-in-law, and was nearly caught having sex in an elevator. Another woman led her children and ex-husband into believing she had a brain tumor, just to get him back.
All are more offensive to her than two men kissing, Webber said.
"It's 2008," she said. "It's something that's real. If they were not going to follow through with it, they shouldn't have started it."
The story's popularity complicates matters. Some 140 scenes featuring the two actors, Van Hansis and Jake Silbermann, are posted online. The message board on Vanhansis.net gets posts from around the world. While competitors "One Life to Live" and "Days of Our Lives" have seen double-digit drops in viewership over the past year, "As the World Turns" is down only 2 percent.
The soap's producers seem to want it both ways, to get credit for having a gay couple but no backlash from long-term viewers for showing intimacy, said Carolyn Hinsey, editor of Soap Opera Weekly.
CBS' Bloom said she would like to see Luke and Noah's romance continue. "If that means there is a natural progression to the physical relationship, I would be in support of it," she said.
Tharrington laughed when asked about any behind-the-scenes debates over showing intimacy between the two men. "You wouldn't even believe," she said.
Producers are committed to telling the story of the romance, she said, adding she hoped the audience would recognize what "As the World Turns" is showing, instead of just what it isn't.
"We feel like we're doing so much right here," she said. "We're telling a story that no one else is doing. We're telling a story that has really engaged our audience."
On the Net:
http://www.cbs.com/daytime/
http://www.vanhansis.net/
http://noahandluke.com/
Unexpected Protest at a Soap
By DAVID BAUDER – 1 hour ago
NEW YORK (AP) — The love affair between two young men on the venerable CBS soap opera "As the World Turns" has triggered a protest campaign by angry viewers.
It's just not the sort of protest you'd expect.
Fans of the fictional romance between Luke Snyder and Noah Mayer are baffled about why the two characters haven't kissed on-screen since September, wondering whether it's a sign of squeamishness by CBS or show sponsors Procter & Gamble Co.
The fans have started a letter-writing campaign, posted an online petition and even have a Web site that counts the days, hours, minutes and seconds since Luke and Noah last locked lips.
"We totally support this show and applaud the show for doing this story line," said Roger Newcomb, a computer worker from New York's northern suburbs and the man behind the campaign. "We just don't understand why they have to be censored or treated differently."
"As the World Turns," which premiered in 1956, had the first gay male character in daytime drama in 1988. Last August was another milestone — believed to be the first time two gay men kissed on a soap — when Luke surprised Noah with the sign of affection. [Note: it was actually the other way around--Noah surprised Luke with the kiss.]
They kissed again in September, at a time Noah was still coming to grips with being gay. But since officially becoming a couple, their lips have been sealed.
Fans first sensed the new attitude around Christmas, during a tender scene where the two men proclaimed their love for one another. It was clear they were about to kiss, but the camera instead panned up and focused on some mistletoe.
"I've been watching soaps for decades," Newcomb said, "and that doesn't happen."
Valentine's Day featured fantasy sequences involving several of the show's couples. All the stories ended in a kiss, except for Luke and Noah's. They hugged.
That's when the campaign started.
"There are some people who want to see sex between Luke and Noah," said 34-year-old Theresa Webber, who lives north of Boston. "I've been watching soaps long enough to know that they're a teenage couple, so it's not going to happen anyway. But for them to not kiss at all, it's a little extreme."
The soap is owned, produced and written by Procter & Gamble Productions Inc., a subsidiary of the consumer giant that makes Bounty, Crest, Pampers, Mr. Clean and Ivory soap. CBS executives consult on the series, but the creative direction is set by P&G.
There's no kissing ban, said Jeannie Tharrington, spokeswoman for Procter & Gamble Productions, although she wouldn't say what will happen in future shows. She explained the mistletoe shot as a "creative decision."
"It's always hard to please a diverse audience," Tharrington said, "and we have a diverse audience."
Webber recalls reading a handful of letters in soap opera publications after last summer's first kiss along the lines of "I don't care if Luke is gay, but I don't want to see it."
Barbara Bloom, CBS senior vice president for daytime, said there was a "minimal" negative reaction from viewers about the story line, although she couldn't define what that meant. There was apparently no organized campaign by conservative or parent advocacy groups that monitor television content.
"It's entirely new to me," said Tim Winter, president of the Parents Television Council. "I hadn't heard anything about it."
The American Family Association Web site has a "take-action alert" against Procter & Gamble, calling the company the "top pro-homosexual sponsor on television." The group bases its determination on the number of P&G products advertised on prime-time TV shows with gay or lesbian characters.
"As the World Turns" isn't even mentioned.
Webber and Newcomb said they've been more bothered by other things they have seen on the soap, like when a 14-year-old boy shot a man who was attacking his mother. One character is so desperate for a baby that she slept with her ex-brother-in-law, and was nearly caught having sex in an elevator. Another woman led her children and ex-husband into believing she had a brain tumor, just to get him back.
All are more offensive to her than two men kissing, Webber said.
"It's 2008," she said. "It's something that's real. If they were not going to follow through with it, they shouldn't have started it."
The story's popularity complicates matters. Some 140 scenes featuring the two actors, Van Hansis and Jake Silbermann, are posted online. The message board on Vanhansis.net gets posts from around the world. While competitors "One Life to Live" and "Days of Our Lives" have seen double-digit drops in viewership over the past year, "As the World Turns" is down only 2 percent.
The soap's producers seem to want it both ways, to get credit for having a gay couple but no backlash from long-term viewers for showing intimacy, said Carolyn Hinsey, editor of Soap Opera Weekly.
CBS' Bloom said she would like to see Luke and Noah's romance continue. "If that means there is a natural progression to the physical relationship, I would be in support of it," she said.
Tharrington laughed when asked about any behind-the-scenes debates over showing intimacy between the two men. "You wouldn't even believe," she said.
Producers are committed to telling the story of the romance, she said, adding she hoped the audience would recognize what "As the World Turns" is showing, instead of just what it isn't.
"We feel like we're doing so much right here," she said. "We're telling a story that no one else is doing. We're telling a story that has really engaged our audience."
On the Net:
http://www.cbs.com/daytime/
http://www.vanhansis.net/
http://noahandluke.com/
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
From the Boston Globe:
Their soap smooch made history. Fans ask: Will it happen again?
By Joanna Weiss, Globe Staff | March 1, 2008
Once upon a time, in the melodramatic environs of CBS's "As the World Turns," there was a boy named Luke and another boy named Noah, and they fell in love. They shared in self-discovery, made it through a trying time when Luke was paralyzed from the waist down, celebrated his miraculous recovery, and kissed onscreen. Twice.
Then they stopped kissing. And some fans were happy. And some fans got very, very angry.
They point, these Luke-and-Noah champions, to two major near-misses since. Once, during an episode of the soap opera near Christmas, Luke and Noah moved toward a kiss, and the camera quickly panned to mistletoe. Then, on a very special Valentine's Day episode, every other couple on the show shared a kiss. Luke and Noah hugged.
Now, one fan site, lukeandnoahfans.com, keeps a running ticker of the time that has elapsed since Luke and Noah since locked lips onscreen. (At press time, it was 157 days and running.) After the mistletoe episode, fans - who refer to the couple as "Nuke" - sent bags of Hershey's Kisses to CBS. More recently, they've launched a publicity drive, blitzing reporters with long, heartfelt statements of Luke-and-Noah support.
"We appreciate so much that the show is doing this," said George Hinds, 29, a youth employment counselor in Cambridge who praises the show for airing daytime TV's first gay kiss. "The campaign is really here to let them know we think it's time to move forward. We think America can handle it."
But for the show's producers, the Luke and Noah love story has proved to be sensitive terrain. "We're trying to make a show that appeals to our entire audience," said Jeannie Tharrington, a spokeswoman for Procter & Gamble Productions, which produces the 52-year-old CBS series - and has been fielding complaints and kudos from all sides since Luke and Noah first appeared.
The recent changes, she said, have come "because of some of the feedback that we've gotten, and because of what we thought was best for the show creatively."
Gay characters on television are common by now, both on cable and on network shows such as ABC's hit drama "Brothers and Sisters." And Luke and Noah, played by Van Hansis and Jake Silbermann, respectively, follow in a long tradition of daytime soap characters with coming-out stories; in 1993, Ryan Phillippe had an early role as a gay teen on ABC's "One Life to Live." In recent years, daytime talk show hosts Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres, both openly gay, have attracted broad fan bases.
But with their frank talk about love, their forthright conversations about when they'll first have sex, and their very occasional smooches, Luke and Noah represent something new in the soap opera world. "This was one more programming frontier," said Andy Towle, who runs the popular gay-theme blog towleroad.com and has kept readers up to date on Luke and Noah developments.
The story line began in late 2005, when Luke, the son of one of the show's longstanding couples, began the long process of coming out to his parents. Barbara Bloom, CBS's senior vice president for daytime TV, said the show's executive producer and head writer laid out a tentative long-term plotline in advance, unfolding it slowly so that the audience would conclude that Luke was gay before he officially announced it. From the start, she said, the writers hoped Luke would go on to become a central character, with everything that entails: "It's daytime television. It's the love story business."
The coming-out saga garnered praise in the gay community and an award from the gay-rights group Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. Hansis and the actress who plays his mother appeared in public service announcements on CBS.
And because the story line played so well with fans, Tharrington said, the writers eventually added Noah.
"Everyone in the town came to accept Luke as he was, and the viewers did, too," Tharrington said. "What we kept hearing from viewers is, 'We love Luke. We want him to have a love interest, too.' "
The "Nuke" story has drawn another GLAAD award nomination, and has attracted a new set of "As the World Turns" fans: gay men who now follow the show with a mix of activist pride and love-struck glee. Some watch Luke and Noah clips on YouTube, where an enterprising viewer has edited episodes down to the relevant scenes. Hinds said he has started to watch the soap in its entirety, "because I just wanted the show to be successful - to support the story line."
But Tharrington and CBS officials said they heard complaints from viewers opposed to the story line - though they won't say which side draws a bigger response. The American Family Association, a conservative group based in Tupelo, Miss., has received hundreds of complaints about the Luke-Noah romance - particularly their kisses, said Randy Sharp, the group's spokesman.
"It was a big turnoff for them," Sharp said. "The word 'repulsive' was used once or twice. 'Offensive' was used more than once. . . . It was overtly gratuitous. It's not necessary to the story line itself."
Sharp's group championed a boycott of Procter & Gamble in 2004, complaining about some of its gay-friendly corporate policies. This time, Sharp said, group leaders had a phone conference with Procter & Gamble officials, and asked members to contact the company.
"Our request to them was to do away with the homosexual characters," Sharp said. "Your writers can come up with good story lines that the general public would watch and not be offended by."
Indeed, Hinds says he wonders if the show's apparent solution - to keep suggesting kisses without showing them - is really pleasing anyone. "Conservative fans," he points out, "still see the intimacy."
Bloom, at CBS, says support for Luke and Noah has been unwavering. "We have never in any way asked them to censor that story or pull it back," she said.
And she said there are signs that, overall, the story has been good for "As the World Turns." Over the course of Luke's saga, Bloom said, the show has moved into a solid position as the third-rated soap across all networks.
But while both Bloom and Tharrington insist that Luke and Noah will remain, no one's making any promises on progress. Drawn-out love stories, Bloom points out, are a daytime drama staple.
"In the soap-opera business, you walk a very fine line between love stories, happily-ever-after, yearning, and obstacles," Bloom said. "The drama comes from the quest."
Their soap smooch made history. Fans ask: Will it happen again?
By Joanna Weiss, Globe Staff | March 1, 2008
Once upon a time, in the melodramatic environs of CBS's "As the World Turns," there was a boy named Luke and another boy named Noah, and they fell in love. They shared in self-discovery, made it through a trying time when Luke was paralyzed from the waist down, celebrated his miraculous recovery, and kissed onscreen. Twice.
Then they stopped kissing. And some fans were happy. And some fans got very, very angry.
They point, these Luke-and-Noah champions, to two major near-misses since. Once, during an episode of the soap opera near Christmas, Luke and Noah moved toward a kiss, and the camera quickly panned to mistletoe. Then, on a very special Valentine's Day episode, every other couple on the show shared a kiss. Luke and Noah hugged.
Now, one fan site, lukeandnoahfans.com, keeps a running ticker of the time that has elapsed since Luke and Noah since locked lips onscreen. (At press time, it was 157 days and running.) After the mistletoe episode, fans - who refer to the couple as "Nuke" - sent bags of Hershey's Kisses to CBS. More recently, they've launched a publicity drive, blitzing reporters with long, heartfelt statements of Luke-and-Noah support.
"We appreciate so much that the show is doing this," said George Hinds, 29, a youth employment counselor in Cambridge who praises the show for airing daytime TV's first gay kiss. "The campaign is really here to let them know we think it's time to move forward. We think America can handle it."
But for the show's producers, the Luke and Noah love story has proved to be sensitive terrain. "We're trying to make a show that appeals to our entire audience," said Jeannie Tharrington, a spokeswoman for Procter & Gamble Productions, which produces the 52-year-old CBS series - and has been fielding complaints and kudos from all sides since Luke and Noah first appeared.
The recent changes, she said, have come "because of some of the feedback that we've gotten, and because of what we thought was best for the show creatively."
Gay characters on television are common by now, both on cable and on network shows such as ABC's hit drama "Brothers and Sisters." And Luke and Noah, played by Van Hansis and Jake Silbermann, respectively, follow in a long tradition of daytime soap characters with coming-out stories; in 1993, Ryan Phillippe had an early role as a gay teen on ABC's "One Life to Live." In recent years, daytime talk show hosts Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres, both openly gay, have attracted broad fan bases.
But with their frank talk about love, their forthright conversations about when they'll first have sex, and their very occasional smooches, Luke and Noah represent something new in the soap opera world. "This was one more programming frontier," said Andy Towle, who runs the popular gay-theme blog towleroad.com and has kept readers up to date on Luke and Noah developments.
The story line began in late 2005, when Luke, the son of one of the show's longstanding couples, began the long process of coming out to his parents. Barbara Bloom, CBS's senior vice president for daytime TV, said the show's executive producer and head writer laid out a tentative long-term plotline in advance, unfolding it slowly so that the audience would conclude that Luke was gay before he officially announced it. From the start, she said, the writers hoped Luke would go on to become a central character, with everything that entails: "It's daytime television. It's the love story business."
The coming-out saga garnered praise in the gay community and an award from the gay-rights group Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. Hansis and the actress who plays his mother appeared in public service announcements on CBS.
And because the story line played so well with fans, Tharrington said, the writers eventually added Noah.
"Everyone in the town came to accept Luke as he was, and the viewers did, too," Tharrington said. "What we kept hearing from viewers is, 'We love Luke. We want him to have a love interest, too.' "
The "Nuke" story has drawn another GLAAD award nomination, and has attracted a new set of "As the World Turns" fans: gay men who now follow the show with a mix of activist pride and love-struck glee. Some watch Luke and Noah clips on YouTube, where an enterprising viewer has edited episodes down to the relevant scenes. Hinds said he has started to watch the soap in its entirety, "because I just wanted the show to be successful - to support the story line."
But Tharrington and CBS officials said they heard complaints from viewers opposed to the story line - though they won't say which side draws a bigger response. The American Family Association, a conservative group based in Tupelo, Miss., has received hundreds of complaints about the Luke-Noah romance - particularly their kisses, said Randy Sharp, the group's spokesman.
"It was a big turnoff for them," Sharp said. "The word 'repulsive' was used once or twice. 'Offensive' was used more than once. . . . It was overtly gratuitous. It's not necessary to the story line itself."
Sharp's group championed a boycott of Procter & Gamble in 2004, complaining about some of its gay-friendly corporate policies. This time, Sharp said, group leaders had a phone conference with Procter & Gamble officials, and asked members to contact the company.
"Our request to them was to do away with the homosexual characters," Sharp said. "Your writers can come up with good story lines that the general public would watch and not be offended by."
Indeed, Hinds says he wonders if the show's apparent solution - to keep suggesting kisses without showing them - is really pleasing anyone. "Conservative fans," he points out, "still see the intimacy."
Bloom, at CBS, says support for Luke and Noah has been unwavering. "We have never in any way asked them to censor that story or pull it back," she said.
And she said there are signs that, overall, the story has been good for "As the World Turns." Over the course of Luke's saga, Bloom said, the show has moved into a solid position as the third-rated soap across all networks.
But while both Bloom and Tharrington insist that Luke and Noah will remain, no one's making any promises on progress. Drawn-out love stories, Bloom points out, are a daytime drama staple.
"In the soap-opera business, you walk a very fine line between love stories, happily-ever-after, yearning, and obstacles," Bloom said. "The drama comes from the quest."
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Here, for example are last week's ratings:
Total Viewers
1. Y&R 5,855,000
2. B&B 4,106,000
3. ATWT 3,442,000
4. DAYS 3,215,000
5. GH 3,061,000
6. AMC 2,896,000
7. OLTL 2,828,000
8. GL 2,808,000
Now, check these demos out:
Girls 12-17 Viewers
1. Y&R 69,000
2. ATWT 55,000
2. B&B 51,000
4. GH 48,000
5. DAYS 46,000
6. GL 34,000
7. OLTL 31,000
8. AMC 30,000
Men 18+ Viewers
1. Y&R 1,439,000
2. B&B 1,002,000
3. ATWT 844,000
4. DAYS 704,000
5. AMC 605,000
6. GL 587,000
7. GH 532,000
8. OLTL 519,000
And the day-by-day ratings show that when Luke/Noah are on (indicated by *), the audience numbers jump:
Monday: 2.6/3,842,000*
Tuesday: 2.4/3,459,000*
Wednesday: 2.3/3,134,000
Thursday: 2.3/3,140,000
Friday: 2.5/3,737,000*
Total Viewers
1. Y&R 5,855,000
2. B&B 4,106,000
3. ATWT 3,442,000
4. DAYS 3,215,000
5. GH 3,061,000
6. AMC 2,896,000
7. OLTL 2,828,000
8. GL 2,808,000
Now, check these demos out:
Girls 12-17 Viewers
1. Y&R 69,000
2. ATWT 55,000
2. B&B 51,000
4. GH 48,000
5. DAYS 46,000
6. GL 34,000
7. OLTL 31,000
8. AMC 30,000
Men 18+ Viewers
1. Y&R 1,439,000
2. B&B 1,002,000
3. ATWT 844,000
4. DAYS 704,000
5. AMC 605,000
6. GL 587,000
7. GH 532,000
8. OLTL 519,000
And the day-by-day ratings show that when Luke/Noah are on (indicated by *), the audience numbers jump:
Monday: 2.6/3,842,000*
Tuesday: 2.4/3,459,000*
Wednesday: 2.3/3,134,000
Thursday: 2.3/3,140,000
Friday: 2.5/3,737,000*
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Well, it's not dead yet: it's the 3rd most popular soap on the air right now, and some weeks it comes pretty close to edging B&B for #2. Of the CBS soaps, Guiding Light is the most in trouble--if this new format doesn't work, I wouldn't be surprised if the Light is extinguished within the next year or two.
Days of Our Lives is definitely on the chopping block, however; NBC has pretty much made it clear that they aren't likely to renew the show when its contract comes up in mid-2009.
Days of Our Lives is definitely on the chopping block, however; NBC has pretty much made it clear that they aren't likely to renew the show when its contract comes up in mid-2009.
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Well...you may be in for some disappointment...spoilers indicate that when Luke and Noah discover that Homeland Security wants to deport Ameera back to Iraq, Noah offers to marry her so she can remain here, and Saint Luke of Oakdale agrees to it...rumors are circulating that she's just playing the boys for the access to a green card.
I agree with your essential argument, entirely, but I just wish the execution were a little better; the plotting just a little obvious to me, and the actress playing Ameera is pretty wooden--she makes Jessica Alba seem like Sarah Bernhardt by comparison. Right now, I'm much more interested in the mysterious Matt, the schemer who apparently has a guilty conscience about something--the actor playing him has really made an impact, providing terrific shadings to the character (though, wouldn't you know, some fans are complaining that he's too "grungy" looking--while I love the fact that he's handsome in a regular guy way, and not the usual soap pretty boy).
Oh, and by the way, another major star is leaving: Martha Byrne (Lily) is leaving when her contract is up in a few weeks--apparently, the budget-tight show was unwilling to meet her demands (including storyline approval). No word on whether they'll recast Lily or send her off someway (I can't imagine they'd kill Lily). Byrne is, next to Maura West (Carly), ATWT's biggest female star, and this could be a huge blow to the show.
I agree with your essential argument, entirely, but I just wish the execution were a little better; the plotting just a little obvious to me, and the actress playing Ameera is pretty wooden--she makes Jessica Alba seem like Sarah Bernhardt by comparison. Right now, I'm much more interested in the mysterious Matt, the schemer who apparently has a guilty conscience about something--the actor playing him has really made an impact, providing terrific shadings to the character (though, wouldn't you know, some fans are complaining that he's too "grungy" looking--while I love the fact that he's handsome in a regular guy way, and not the usual soap pretty boy).
Oh, and by the way, another major star is leaving: Martha Byrne (Lily) is leaving when her contract is up in a few weeks--apparently, the budget-tight show was unwilling to meet her demands (including storyline approval). No word on whether they'll recast Lily or send her off someway (I can't imagine they'd kill Lily). Byrne is, next to Maura West (Carly), ATWT's biggest female star, and this could be a huge blow to the show.
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Well...considering what our country has done to Iraq, I'm sure she has a little bit more to whine about than the latest American bimbo du jour whining about her relationship problems with whatever bland muscle man she's attached to. I actually think the writers are finding subtle ways to introduce their liberalism and protest into what is traditionally a very conservative television format. Inclusive of gays and inclusive of foreigners while B&B's gay-less fashion industry takes a backseat to whatever latest incestuous musical chairs game those writers are playing this week? ATWT deserves a Daytime Emmy just for being more socially aware and less sleazy than all the others.
I'm all for ATWT including currently relevant stories, such as an Iraqi refugee adjusting to life in the United States and relating the terror of her life in Iraq. That's not my quibble. My problem is with the way the story is being told. Ameera is, thus far, nothing but a massive collection of clichés, and after years of Meg whining about her life and months of Sofie whining about her life, having one more female character do the same is just too much to bear. I'd like her to be more headstrong and not so "woe is me." I do that enough myself, I don't want the characters on my soaps to be doing the same!
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Penelope wrote:whine about how horrible her life was in Iraq and how she's scared to go back there, blah, blah, blah. I could care less. Really, her only purpose is to prevent our boys from doing the nasty.
Dude are you serious? That sounds...wow, so not something I would expect anyone here - least of all YOU - to say. Yeah the writing for her storyline is pretty bland but I actually think ATWT deserves major props for actually tackling current issues. Gays and now immigration? (not to mention the war?) That's pretty forward thinking for a genre that's usually stuck in the 50's. Good for them! I'd like to see the boys act like a GAY COUPLE too, but two guys kissing isn't necessarily the biggest issue of the day. Are you seriously saying watching two gay guys do it is more important than making a statement about the new world we live in and the implications of destroying people's lives in Iraq? Way to keep some perspective. I'm going to assume you didn't mean that statement they way it sounded.
And Oscar Guy, almost everyone has cell phones. Yes, even Muslim girls from non-American countries :p
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OscarGuy
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Just like the set of woods they used for the horror set and the nuke hunting trip, they have gone to using a roadside near the woods for two sets of shoots so far. The first was Katie and Brad getting stuck in the snow. The second is with Luke and Noah and Ameera stuck not in the snow, but with a broken axle. Once is enough, IMO...
And since when does muslim girls carry cell phones? It seems so unlikely for someone so recently in the states.
And since when does muslim girls carry cell phones? It seems so unlikely for someone so recently in the states.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin