New Developments III

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Sonic Youth
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Re: New Developments III

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flipp525 wrote:
Sonic Youth wrote:
I think it's not happening.
Why? Because it didn’t happen when Trump said it would?
No.
Mister Tee wrote:
flipp525 wrote: I’m in D.C. and have spoken with some folks in the know this week about this. Believe me, it’s happening (and soon).
What's become interesting is the possibility the Mar-a-Lago documents case jumps ahead of NY in the queue. Plus, Georgia's out there waiting to happen. A lot could explode at once; certainly in quick succession.
Exactly. NY seems too reluctant to take the first jump off the ledge.
Last edited by Sonic Youth on Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Developments III

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flipp525 wrote: I’m in D.C. and have spoken with some folks in the know this week about this. Believe me, it’s happening (and soon).
What's become interesting is the possibility the Mar-a-Lago documents case jumps ahead of NY in the queue. Plus, Georgia's out there waiting to happen. A lot could explode at once; certainly in quick succession.
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Re: New Developments III

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Sonic Youth wrote:
Okri wrote:
Sabin wrote:Gonna be a fun week.
Yeah.....
I think it's not happening.
Why? Because it didn’t happen when Trump said it would? That was always a lie for the sole purpose of getting his crazy MAGAt psychos frothed up. You’ll notice that they’re just not as excited this time around. There was a rally with fives and fives of Trump supporters in attendance.

I’m in D.C. and have spoken with some folks in the know this week about this. Believe me, it’s happening (and soon).
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Re: New Developments III

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Okri wrote:
Sabin wrote:Gonna be a fun week.
Yeah.....
I think it's not happening.
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Re: New Developments III

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In passing, I'll remark to Sonic and Magilla. I'm familiar with these charges because I used to listen to Thom Hartmann a while ago but most people are not. But I'd imagine this story will matter because whenever a president passes away there's a desire to emphasize legacy, maybe revise a little bit, especially in contrast to the modern day. We saw how many articles got written claiming that George H.W. Bush was the nation's finest single-term president after he passed.
OscarGuy wrote
Perhaps I'm too old to be the target of your comic, but if the hostage situation had resolved for Carter, do you think he would have won? If he wouldn't, then the issue is immaterial. If he would have, then you have to think how much different (and better) our history would have been in the following years. Reagan wouldn't have been elected president. He wouldn't have then been able to ignore the AIDS crisis, fully bring the Religious Right into the Republican fold, and ultimately led towards the fascist ideology that has overtaken the Republican Party in recent years. Trickle down economics might not have been a thing, corporations wouldn't have been given more power and less regulation, and so much more.

Reagan was the starting point of our nation's decline and what might have happened if he'd never been elected president. Surely a compelling "what if...?" or alternate history subject that might have made.
danfrank wrote
I think Carter’s candidacy for a second term was dead in the water regardless of the Iran hostage situation, though it is a beautiful fantasy to imagine Reagan not becoming president.
I was born the day before Reagan was inaugurated so I can't really comment on what was going on but this is what I understand.

Allan Lichtman gave eight keys against the incumbent party (Democrats) in 1980, including the "Party Contest" key which is the kiss of death. That's three more than the threshold for election/re-election. I could see the hostage release affecting two keys in the immediate. It almost certainly shrinks John Anderson's showing in the election below 5% which avoids the Third Party key. Most of Anderson's voters came from disaffected Carter voters.

Carter being re-elected would have to pivot around two of these four keys:
*The hostages being returned home in time for the perception of a foreign-military failure to be avoided. Carter already had the peace treaty between Egypt-Israel under his belt so he already had the foreign-military success key to his credit. But even if they are returned, might it still be viewed as a failure?
*The hostages being returned home in time for Carter to blunt some degree of Ted Kennedy's primary challenge, possibly getting him to drop out in time, to avoid the party contest key. Barnes accuses Reagan proxies (Connally) conducting this during July-August 1980 so... maybe that counters some of Ted's primary bid?*
*The hostages being returned home in time to blunt some of the perception of Reagan as a charismatic, unifying figure. Considering that Reagan was seen as a right-wing extremist for such a long time it's not outside the realm of possibility.
*Oh, and the U.S. magically exiting recession. Which... y'know, who knows?

Basically, most or all of these things have to go right for Carter to get re-elected, which would mean Carter has to go from a crazy run of bad luck to a crazy run of good luck. Seems unlikely but he certainly prayed enough for it. Also, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

*Obviously, I wasn't there but my understanding of the hostage crisis was that Carter was underwater during the start of his primary challenge from Ted Kennedy but the hostage crisis boosted his favorables across the board initially due to a rally round the flag effect. This caused conflict during the convention when that effect wore off and there was an effort to get delegates to be able to re-cast their votes in the hopes that Kennedy might prevail. In any case, if Carter brings the hostages home it's conceivable that he might be beneficiary of high popularity again. I bring this up to say it's entirely possible that without the hostage crisis, Carter's numbers stay underwater against Kennedy and he does even worse in the primary than IRL. I'll defer to those who were there at the time. As I mentioned earlier, my one day of life during the Carter administration doesn't count.
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Re: New Developments III

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OscarGuy wrote:Perhaps I'm too old to be the target of your comic, but if the hostage situation had resolved for Carter, do you think he would have won? If he wouldn't, then the issue is immaterial. If he would have, then you have to think how much different (and better) our history would have been in the following years. Reagan wouldn't have been elected president. He wouldn't have then been able to ignore the AIDS crisis, fully bring the Religious Right into the Republican fold, and ultimately led towards the fascist ideology that has overtaken the Republican Party in recent years. Trickle down economics might not have been a thing, corporations wouldn't have been given more power and less regulation, and so much more.

Reagan was the starting point of our nation's decline and what might have happened if he'd never been elected president. Surely a compelling "what if...?" or alternate history subject that might have made.
I think Carter’s candidacy for a second term was dead in the water regardless of the Iran hostage situation, though it is a beautiful fantasy to imagine Reagan not becoming president.
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Re: New Developments III

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Perhaps I'm too old to be the target of your comic, but if the hostage situation had resolved for Carter, do you think he would have won? If he wouldn't, then the issue is immaterial. If he would have, then you have to think how much different (and better) our history would have been in the following years. Reagan wouldn't have been elected president. He wouldn't have then been able to ignore the AIDS crisis, fully bring the Religious Right into the Republican fold, and ultimately led towards the fascist ideology that has overtaken the Republican Party in recent years. Trickle down economics might not have been a thing, corporations wouldn't have been given more power and less regulation, and so much more.

Reagan was the starting point of our nation's decline and what might have happened if he'd never been elected president. Surely a compelling "what if...?" or alternate history subject that might have made.
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Re: New Developments III

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Big Magilla wrote:This is news only in the sense that it confirms what was rumored at the time. Did anyone seriously believe that Iran's release of the hostages minutes after Reagan was sworn in was co-incidental?

https://www.history.com/news/background ... age-crisis
It's surely news to anyone who wasn't around 40 years ago, or were too young to be fully aware.

But how many of THOSE even care about such ancient history is another question.
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Re: New Developments III

Post by Big Magilla »

This is news only in the sense that it confirms what was rumored at the time. Did anyone seriously believe that Iran's release of the hostages minutes after Reagan was sworn in was co-incidental?

https://www.history.com/news/background ... age-crisis
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Re: New Developments III

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This is admitting to treason, right?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/03 ... risis.html
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Re: New Developments III

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Sabin wrote:Gonna be a fun week.
Yeah.....
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Re: New Developments III

Post by Greg »

Americans distrust the banking system and want more banking regulation.

"And a slightly different but complementary question from Gallup shows Americans not only lack confidence in banks but also tend to have an unfavorable view of them: In a 2022 survey, just 36 percent of Americans said they had a very or somewhat positive view of the banking industry, down from 40 percent the year before."

"It’s perhaps no surprise, then, that many Americans feel banks ought to be more regulated. A survey from Lake Research Partners/Chesapeake Beach Consulting last October asked Americans about bank regulation and specific policies, finding widespread support across the political spectrum. Sixty-six percent of Americans, including 77 percent of Democrats and 57 percent of Republicans, said there should be more regulation of “financial companies such as Wall Street banks, mortgage lenders, payday lenders, debt collectors and credit card companies.”"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/it ... for-years/
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Re: New Developments III

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Gonna be a fun week.
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Re: New Developments III

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Marianne Williams enters the 2024 Democratic Primary. If Biden runs for re-election (and I assume he will), she's the left-wing protest candidate. Probably a lower ceiling on her campaign than Sanders in 2016 although I expect a good showing in New Hampshire following Biden's role in reshaping the order of states.

In my efforts to take Marianne Williamson's campaign somewhat seriously, I think one of her biggest liabilities (despite the fact that she's never held elected office) is that she never makes anything she says sound like a political call to action. I'm here for inclusive spiritualism in my political rhetoric but unlike, say, Cornel West, there's never any urgency behind it. At least, that's how she did it back in 2016. She wouldn't get any consideration from me because she's never held elected office but that's my take on her candidacy. She'll be elevated because there must be an anti-Biden vote. But to her credit, she's also going to be elevated because she's going to look like she cares about getting peoples' votes more than Biden.

Entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy enters the Republican Primary as an "anti-woke activist." He's probably 2024's Andrew Yang. I don't like him at all but he's sort of notable for being the first real entrance of something I've been waiting to see for some time: the tech bro politician. His background may be in pharma but in his first interview with Hannity he's using terms like "OG" and "2.0." I've been fearfully intrigued by how tech bro translates on a national scale.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/21/us/p ... -2024.html
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Re: New Developments III

Post by danfrank »

OscarGuy wrote:An interesting tidbit I learned recently about Feinstein is that she became mayor San Francisco after the death of George Moscone who was killed at the same time as Harvey Milk. It's hard to believe how long she's been in politics.
The New York Times just did a piece on her history: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/14/us/d ... r.amp.html

Also, you should watch Oscar winner The Times of Harvey Milk. There’s a fair amount about Feinstein, including the clip where she announces to the press that Moscone and Milk were shot and killed. It’s absolutely chilling.

Sabin, I probably will join you in voting for Lee in the primary. She absolutely has earned it.
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