Correcting Oscar 2003

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Lead, Support or The Other Category But Would Not Register a Nomination

Benicio Del Toro, 21 Grams - Lead
2
11%
Benicio Del Toro, 21 Grams - Support
3
17%
Benicio Del Toro, 21 Grams - Other Category But Would Not Register a Nomination
1
6%
Samantha Morton, In America - Lead
5
28%
Samantha Morton, In America - Support
1
6%
Samantha Morton, In America - Other Category But Would Not Register a Nomination
0
No votes
Tim Robbins, Mystic River - Lead
1
6%
Tim Robbins, Mystic River - Support
4
22%
Tim Robbins, Mystic River - Other Category But Would Not Register a Nomination
1
6%
 
Total votes: 18

Sabin
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Re: Correcting Oscar 2003

Post by Sabin »

dws1982 wrote
All lead.

All three of the guys in Mystic River get similar-ish amounts of screen time, narrative focus, POV; no reason to split them up in my opinion. (Similar argument applies to 21 Grams. Melissa Leo, Clea DuVall, etc., are the supporting roles.) Kevin Bacon is my favorite of the three and is the one I would've nominated.

Morton's case is a bit more complicated because the girls are leads as well--more lead than she is; she is certainly more of a secondary lead (from memory, between the two adults, it does end up focusing more on Considine than Morton as well), but under the binary system we have, lead is more right than support. I don't suppose I would've cried fraud if she had been placed in support, however, although placing her on the same tier as Hounsou doesn't feel right.
You make a good point about Tim Robbins having similar-ish screen-time and narrative focus. Tim Robbins has plenty of inner-life away from Bacon and Penn. The same can be said of Del Toro away from Penn/Watts.

I'm changing my votes to keep Morton where she is. I think if Tim Robbins was pushed for Best Actor there's a chance he could've gotten in over Jude Law. The fifth spot was pretty weak and his was a showy role. It's unlikely but I think these things are more possible than Oscar campaigners make them out to be. Del Toro would not be nominated though.
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Big Magilla
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Re: Correcting Oscar 2003

Post by Big Magilla »

I have no problem with any of these three.

I see Del Toro and Bacon as co-leads but being lower profile names than Sean Penn who was the lead in both films, they were logically campaigned in support where they were nominated.

Morton's screen time is less than Considine's, but she was the film's female star, and her lovely performance was appropriately nominated in lead. Ther Bolger sisters were the ones who deserved consideration for supporting actress.
dws1982
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Re: Correcting Oscar 2003

Post by dws1982 »

All lead.

All three of the guys in Mystic River get similar-ish amounts of screen time, narrative focus, POV; no reason to split them up in my opinion. (Similar argument applies to 21 Grams. Melissa Leo, Clea DuVall, etc., are the supporting roles.) Kevin Bacon is my favorite of the three and is the one I would've nominated.

Morton's case is a bit more complicated because the girls are leads as well--more lead than she is; she is certainly more of a secondary lead (from memory, between the two adults, it does end up focusing more on Considine than Morton as well), but under the binary system we have, lead is more right than support. I don't suppose I would've cried fraud if she had been placed in support, however, although placing her on the same tier as Hounsou doesn't feel right.
Sabin
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Correcting Oscar 2003

Post by Sabin »

Nobody in Best Actor leaps out as being in the wrong category although it’s interesting that only one nominated performance had more than 42% of their screen-time: Bill Murray. Both Sean Penn and Jonny Depp hover around 34% but I wouldn’t consider them supporting. I remember hearing some chatter (bogger stuff) about Depp being positioned for supporting in the lead-up to the Oscar race but it’s such a breakout moment for the actor I can’t see that case being made. While I don’t have Kevin Bacon’s stats in front of me, I remember thinking both he and Sean Penn were leading in Mystic River while Tim Robbins was a borderline case. Apparently, Robbins is in the case for 24.4% of the film which is a bit smaller a chunk of screen-time than I remember. But it makes some amount of sense. He’s not an active driver of the plot but rather a perennial question mark, if not a plot device. I vote keeping him where he is.

Another Penn co-star piqued my interest. I don’t have Penn’s screen time in 21 Grams but Naomi Watts is in the film for 38.66% of the time while Benicio Del Toro is in it for 23.35%. I recall Del Toro being more of a borderline case but he really is firmly affixed to the B-Plot. It’s been ages since I’ve seen the film but a basic description of the film would mention all three characters wrapped up together, but some of that is due to Del Toro’s star power. He probably should remain supporting but I'm open to other interpretations. Had anyone else played him and there would be no questions that he is supporting but Del Toro's star power changes the equation a bit.

A pleasant surprise was Keisha Castle-Hughes promoted to Best Actress for Whale Rider. Similarly, it was nice to see Samantha Morton nominated for In America but Best Actress is a stretch. To me, this feels like something that happens too often; when nominating a film about a family, the “roles” within the family dictate the placement. In America is a movie I didn’t quite love but I certainly felt deserved a much better reception than it got in the Oscar race. I think the protagonist of the film is Paddy Considine and everyone else is supporting, including Morton who doesn’t much have a role outside his orbit.

I think Morton should have been appropriately delegated to supporting and she would have gotten in.

I’m not going to include Alec Baldwin in The Cooler despite the fact that he has the largest % of anyone in his category (31.09%) because it’s so clearly a supporting performance IMO. Same with Holly Hunter. I wasn’t much a fan of the thirteen at the time but the strength of Holly Hunter’s performance was probably a bit underrated. In retrospect, she might be a pretty deserving winner. I’m surprised to see her at 34.99, the most of anyone in the category both in terms of % and total time. But I still think it’s pretty firmly a supporting role.
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