mlrg wrote:The largest nuclear plant in Europe, based in Ukrayne, has just been hit. If it blows up the consequences are 10x worse than Chernobyl.
Does anyone believe that this Will end well?
Right now I'm seeing a lot of confusion. I hope what you're reading is wrong or at least minimal. I mean, let's remember Chernobyl was a shitty reactor.
A few friends of mine have given up the internet for Lent. I'm thinking that may not be a bad idea.
ETA: The comment about getting off the internet for Lent was meant for me, not mlrg. Just in case that wasn't clear.
Last edited by Sonic Youth on Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think you might hit on something here, Greg. The oligarchs are likely supporting Putin not because he wants to rebuild the USSR, but because he has made them tons of money by his draconian policies. Putin is stuck in an 80s mindset while much of the western world modernized. War is no longer the right solution for every problem.
As to the Russian soldiers in Ukraine, I saw a report the other day that might explain why some of the soldiers are deciding they don't want to fight this war: the propaganda machine told them that the Ukrainians wanted to be liberated and that they would therefore welcome them with open arms. Yet, now that they are getting in there, facing the resistance, and seeing how absolutely wrong that propaganda was, some of them are no longer gung-ho about fighting. A demoralized army cannot win wars.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
The question is how common is this and how much does this effect the war. Democratically-elected governments, even with all their problems, at least give somewhat of an indication, through elections, of the desires of the people. Dictators often become deluded as to how far they can push their own soldiers. Once Russian soldiers are in Ukraine, the immediate threat is being killed in war, not being executed for desertion. Just because Putin might have delusions of rebuilding the Soviet Union, it does not mean a large percentage of his soldiers share these delusions. Another question is how much do Russian oligarchs care about maintaining their wealth versus rebuilding the Soviet Union.
If we lived in a sane country, every Democrat ad for the midterm would ask voters to consider what would happen if anyone but Joe Biden was President right now, let alone Donald Trump. There would be enough weird pro-Putin/Russia moments and comments by Trump to fit three spots. We'd see mashups of all the statements made by GOP-ers about Russia this past week, in their weird stances, their god awful takes, wrong-ass predictions, and their attendance at CPAC and AFPAC while everyone else is voicing solidarity with the Ukrainian people. Mitt Romney's comments about being surrounded by morons would play again and again. If we lived in a sane country, this midterm would be a no-brainer. We'd see gains for no other reason than one party in this country is run by adults, who might get things wrong on occasion but do their research and try to keep us as far away from WWIII as possible, while the other side is a bunch of reactionary assholes who can't voice a coherent position save for "Let's Go Brandon."
Trump was and is a Putin puppet. If he were president, Putin would be doing exactly what he is doing and Trump and his Secretary of State would be saying and doing exactly what he and Pompeo are saying and doing, i.e., continuing to support his lies and kowtow to his "genius".
Ukraine has at best 25% of the military force of Russia, but Ukraine has already taken out planes, tanks, and other armored vehicles. Russia has already suffered an estimated loss of 3,000 lives, while Ukraine has suffered 198, mostly through bombings. That consensus has been that Russia would be ultimately defeated, but no one expected them to blunder so badly going in.
That said, I'll acknowledge we did underestimate Russia up to now, so...
And in Trump's case, openly embracing Putin from the beginning. While other leaders might've underestimated or gave Putin the benefit of the doubt at some point, they didn't praise and enable him. What's funny about Trump in this case is that he swears this wouldn't be happening if he was president, when it's clear he wouldn't have pushed back against what Putin is doing. The record is clear on that. At least President Biden is imposing sanctions. I can't picture Trump doing that without intense pressure from his party.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
Okri wrote
It was my second tear of university and I hadn't actually believed the invasion would take place. So when the bombing started I literally watched everything I could find. Which was then very little, of course. Just the same thing over and over again. So I was seeingnthe same images repeatedly and I couldn't quite shake it.
You both said "Turn off the TV. Go for a walk." I thought of that again yesterday.
Yeah, 19 years ago.
I'll be honest, I was scrambling to think of what I could've said 19 years ago that was good advice. I don't remember what I knew or didn't know about U.S./world politics at the time (most of it was absorbed from The Daily Show) but I can't imagine it was terribly nuanced or sophisticated.
It was my second tear of university and I hadn't actually believed the invasion would take place. So when the bombing started I literally watched everything I could find. Which was then very little, of course. Just the same thing over and over again. So I was seeingnthe same images repeatedly and I couldn't quite shake it.
You both said "Turn off the TV. Go for a walk." I thought of that again yesterday.
Sonic Youth wrote:It'll take much more than an invasion to be a World War 3, though. Every geopolitical conflict is declared the next World War 3 until it isn't.
That said, I'll acknowledge we did underestimate Russia up to now, so....
I'm remembering yours and Sabin's advice to me post bombing of Iraq right now, to be honest.
I would like to clarify that I meant people advocating sending U.S. troops to Ukraine, which fortunately appears to be limited, are the ones who sound like they are part of a death cult. As the U.S. and Russia still have thousands of nuclear weapons, this should never happen. I am glad the President Biden has taken U.S. troops in Ukraine off the table and is focusing on economic sanctions.
As Russia is a major oil exporter, this should encourage the world to end oil consumption within ten years, if possible. The last I read, over 70 percent of the oil the U.S. uses is refined into gasoline and diesel fuel for land vehicles; while, less than 3 percent of electricity is generated from oil-fired power plants. This is probably similar world wide, so, just moving land vehicles to electricity would eliminate over two thirds of oil usage. To speed this transition, the U.S. Federal Government should run lithium-ion battery factories and give these manufactured batteries for free to vehicle companies, thereby dramatically lowering the cost of electric vehicles. The cost of running the factories and paying the factory workers would be part of the federal budget.
