C-SPAN's 2021 Presidential Leadership Survey

[Sabin]

dws1982 wrote
Re, Cleveland: He appeals to my belief that whoever is in the White House needs to be kept on a short leash; he seemed to not just understand it but welcome it. I think his Native American policies were good for their day, he was an anti-imperialist in a time when that was not natural stance (McKinley certainly took a different approach), he continued the (correct) reforms that Arthur had begun to implement when he could've easily reversed them. Greg's point about the Panic of 1893 is a valid one, and it's definitely the low point of his presidencies (I wouldn't rank him top ten or anything like that), although my counterpoints would be a) I don't think his non-response is out of step with what other presidents of that would've done (I am not excusing it); and b) he was seriously ill for quite awhile during 1893. I don't know that I could make a brilliant case for him in practice, but in theory he embodies a lot of the things I would like to see in a President.

Thank you. Very interesting. When you say that Cleveland was imperialist, do you mean in terms of foreign affairs or putting manifest destiny ideology into action?

[dws1982]

Probably should've put the sentence "How can you rank them on...International Relations?" before the parentheses, where it belonged, in reference to the presidents who only served a short time. It seems like it's referring to the last three, who can be evaluated on that front, even if the long-term consequences of their foreign policy won't be seen for some time. (None of them would get high marks at all from me on that front.)

Re, Cleveland: He appeals to my belief that whoever is in the White House needs to be kept on a short leash; he seemed to not just understand it but welcome it. I think his Native American policies were good for their day, he was an anti-imperialist in a time when that was not natural stance (McKinley certainly took a different approach), he continued the (correct) reforms that Arthur had begun to implement when he could've easily reversed them. Greg's point about the Panic of 1893 is a valid one, and it's definitely the low point of his presidencies (I wouldn't rank him top ten or anything like that), although my counterpoints would be a) I don't think his non-response is out of step with what other presidents of that would've done (I am not excusing it); and b) he was seriously ill for quite awhile during 1893. I don't know that I could make a brilliant case for him in practice, but in theory he embodies a lot of the things I would like to see in a President.

[Greg]

Grover Cleveland continues to be underrated.

Really? He opposed taking action against the Panic Of 1893 and many Americans starved to death.

[Sabin]

dws1982 wrote
I still think it's stupid that Presidents like William Henry Harrison and Zachary Taylor and James A. Garfield (who was shot on this day in 1881) are included in these rankings alongside Presidents who served full terms.

Agree on Harrison and Garfield. I'd be fine with losing Taylor as well. The cutoff should probably be two years. Then again, I didn't live through the guy's year and a half, so what do I know?

dws1982 wrote
(I wouldn't rank anyone from the past twenty years on the list either, although if forced, Trump would be very low, Obama would be middling, Bush would be low.) Like how can you even evaluate them on things like International Relations?

The reason I disagree with you is that it is worthwhile to document perception of these people after they leave office so that we can calculate how they rise in our estimation. Dwight Eisenhower first debuted on some list at #22 on some other list. Now he's #5. I like that we have record of that. Now that we've settled into twenty years past the Clinton administration, he debuted on this list at #21, jumped to #14 (in 2009), settled into #15 (in 2017), and now he's back down to #19. I like being able to see the curve of perspective through history.

dws1982 wrote
Grover Cleveland continues to be underrated.

They're grading him on a curve of increased executive action, which isn't fair to him or anyone before the 20th century. Where do you think he excelled?

I stumbled across this article a few years ago:
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/am ... ever-13056

[dws1982]

I still think it's stupid that Presidents like William Henry Harrison and Zachary Taylor and James A. Garfield (who was shot on this day in 1881) are included in these rankings alongside Presidents who served full terms. (I wouldn't rank anyone from the past twenty years on the list either, although if forced, Trump would be very low, Obama would be middling, Bush would be low.) Like how can you even evaluate them on things like International Relations?

Grover Cleveland continues to be underrated.

[Sabin]

C-SPAN just released their 2021 Presidential Leadership Survey. I've followed this survey for a few years. Instead of just a mass ranking, it breaks down excellence into ten "Individual Leadership Characteristics" that are equally weighted.

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2 ... ge=overall

The individual leadership characteristics are:
* Public Persuasion
* Crisis Leadership* Economic Management
* Moral Authority
* International Relations
* Administrative Skills
* Relations with Congress
* Vision/Setting an Agenda
* Pursued Equal Justice For All
* Performance Within Context of Time

And over the years, everyone's performance in these categories changes. Nothing is set in stone.

The biggest mover was... Chester A. Arthur!!! Moving five points from #35 to #30. Very surprising considering he signed the Chinese Exclusion Act. But generally speaking was very good on reforms. 

Oh yeah. And Donald Trump debuts at #41 ahead of Franklin Pierce, Andrew Johnson, and James Buchanan. Why did he come in that low? Which of those categories did he excel in? If the economy didn't tank, he would have gotten credit for Economic Management maybe. His highest ranking was Public Persuasion at #32. His lowest was Moral Authority and Administrative Skills at dead last, International Relations at #43, and Relations with Congress and Performance Within Context of Times at #42.

Other news:
* Barack Obama moves into the Top Ten (debuting at #12 in 2017). His highest scores are in Pursuing Equal Justice For All (#3) and Moral Authority (#6). His lowest scores are Relations with Congress (#32) and International Relations (#21). 
* George W. Bush moves to #29 from #33 in 2017 and #39 in 2009. It makes sense when you look at each category. He just looks a little better across the board compared to Trump.
* Bill Clinton falls from #15 to #19. After Black Lives Matters, he gets worse scores on Pursuing Equal Justice and Performance Within Context of Time, as well as Economic Management.
* Manifest Destiny Presidents who are now viewed as racist (James Polk, Andrew Jackson, and Woodrow Wilson) continue to fall while middling Presidents who pursued equal justice (John Adams, John Quincy Adams, and Ulysses S. Grant) continue to rise.