R.I.P. Ennio Morricone

[dws1982]

I'm going to create a thread soon about movies and the alternate versions that are out there. I've got a midterm to do this week (yes, I'm back in school, only for one class, so I can teach dual enrollment and get the big bucks), but I'm going to try to finish it early in the week and work on that thread when I finish. I always like hearing about alternate versions and which is better, and where to find them.

[Precious Doll]

I may be thinking of another movie, but isn't Revolution one of the cases where the Director's Cut is actually shorter than the Theatrical Cut?

Yes, only by about 10 minutes and if a recall correctly narration may have been removed.

The director's cut of 54 is far superior to Harvey's cut though sadly the scenes that he cut out only existed on video format. Not only did Harvey destroy the original film he destroyed the director's career because what was release back in the late 1990's was a train wreck.

[dws1982]

I may be thinking of another movie, but isn't Revolution one of the cases where the Director's Cut is actually shorter than the Theatrical Cut?

[Precious Doll]

Speaking of tinkering with films the Hugh Wilson film Revolution plays so much better in the directors cut than the turgid 1984 cinema release which was barely watchable. It's pretty amazing that sometimes even smaller changes produce great improvements.

I have a hard time believing any tinkering could improve Hudson's Revolution. It was such an atrocious film with all the actors floundering about with uneven accents. Apparently his experience on this movie led Pacino to stay off movies for four years.

I did too but it works with the director's cut. Interestingly at the time Al Pacino's accent was pretty universally panned but turns out it was actually accurate for the period. The extras on the BFI disc are very interesting.

[Reza]

Speaking of tinkering with films the Hugh Wilson film Revolution plays so much better in the directors cut than the turgid 1984 cinema release which was barely watchable. It's pretty amazing that sometimes even smaller changes produce great improvements.

I have a hard time believing any tinkering could improve Hudson's Revolution. It was such an atrocious film with all the actors floundering about with uneven accents. Apparently his experience on this movie led Pacino to stay off movies for four years.

[Precious Doll]

I have the 229 minutes (original European/Australian cinema release version). Think I'll pass on the longer version though if it was in pristine condition it would be worth seeing.

One of the big surprises I've had this year is Coppola's The Cotton Club. I hated the original version released in cinemas and read raves about his directors cut so I thought I would take a chance. Works so much better with way more fleshing out of the characters. Went from a bad film to a great one.

I'll probably watch TGTBATU & OUATIA over the next two Sundays. We have taken into the habit of watching a long film on Sunday nights at those two fit the bill.

Speaking of tinkering with films the Hugh Wilson film Revolution plays so much better in the directors cut than the turgid 1984 cinema release which was barely watchable. It's pretty amazing that sometimes even smaller changes produce great improvements.

Funny too watching Fried Green Tomatoes the other week which was the 'extended' edition. I picked out of the scenes, neither of which add anything to the film but I think that was done purely to give fans a little bit more material in their viewing experience. Really so minor in this case that it amounts to a little padding that doesn't do any harm.

[dws1982]

So the European cut (229 minutes) of Once Upon a Time in America is the most widely-available cut now. (I don't think the linear, studio-mandated 139 minute American cut has ever been released on video; if it has, it hasn't been since the VHS days.) In the United States at least, if you go to rent it or buy it on a streaming site, that's the version it'll be. There's also a 251 minute cut that played at Cannes and did some theatrical bookings a few years ago (I saw it in Nashville) and has been released on BluRay in the United States (and elsewhere I think) in a package with the European cut. It's marketed as a Director's Cut on the case, but I think it's a not quite accurate to call it that. Leone himself cut down his original 269 minute cut to the 229 European cut. I don't think Leone ever had a 251 minute cut.

At any rate, the 22 minutes of extra footage in the 251 minute cut is in really bad shape--some of it looks and sounds like a third generation VHS--I'm not sure if it was impossible to restore it or if the cost to restore it was prohibitive. If you watch that version, you'll definitely know those scenes when they show up.

Apparently the "missing" 18 minutes that would bring it back to Leone's 269 minute version do still exist, but they weren't added back to the film with the other 22 minutes because either A) they're in even worse shape than the 22 minutes that were added back (in which case, yikes); B) there's some legal/rights issue that prevented it (I never understand those things); or C) the soundtrack was never finalized and they never fixed it (large parts of the movie were shot in Italy, so extras and background players probably would've been speaking Italian, although maybe French, since other parts were shot in Montreal). I've read conflicting accounts, and I'm not sure which one is accurate. If there ever was a six hour cut, it's almost certainly lost.

On a side note, if you're interested in seeing this extended cut in the US at least, keep an eye out on the used BluRay market. The most recent BluRay was released by Fox (although it was a Warner movie and has the Warner logos when you load the disc; again, I never understand these things), and Fox has been putting a lot of their BluRays out of print recently (possibly fallout from the Disney takeover), so the prices are spiking. The disc that I bought new for around $6 is now going for $50 used. But the prices do tend to fluctuate a good bit, so if you wait it out, you can probably get a good deal. Personally, I don't think those 22 minutes add a great deal, but they do have historical value, so I understand wanting to see it. I'm not sure if it's more widely available outside of the US, but if it is, and if you have region-free capability, that might be a good option.

[Big Magilla]

I think I watched all of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly but I can't be sure. I know I couldn't take more than a few minutes of either of the other two spaghetti westerns in Leone's Eastwood trilogy. I did sit through all of Once Upon a Time in the West mainly to see f I could understand the acclaim for Henry Fonda's against-type performance. I couldn't.

I do like the full cut of Once Upon a Time in America. The truncated 1984 U.S. release print, however, is abominable although Tuesday Weld's performance comes through in both versions. She's the best thing in it.

Among his Hollywood films, Morricone's best was Days of Heaven for which he received his first Oscar nomination.

[Precious Doll]

I actually haven't watched The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly since I was probably in high school. I've been meaning to watch it again, and I have the Blu-Ray's of the whole No-Name Trilogy sitting on my shelf, but I haven't gotten around to it.

I've only ever seen it once and also have it on Blu Ray but have not gotten around to rewatching it or Once Upon a Time in the West. I did rewatch Once Upon in America again recently and preferred the film more than I did back in the early 1980s. We got the European cut back in the cinemas and I'm not sure if the Blu Ray has even more footage added or was the original European cut but nevertheless it was much more rewarding the second time around.

Thanks for stating your reasons Mister Tee. I must admit that the Western isn't my favourite genre but there are enough gems within the genre to keep me watching them.

[dws1982]

I actually haven't watched The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly since I was probably in high school. I've been meaning to watch it again, and I have the Blu-Ray's of the whole No-Name Trilogy sitting on my shelf, but I haven't gotten around to it.

I do love Once Upon a Time in the West, and one of the greatest moments is probably due in large part to Morricone. When Claudia Cardinale arrives in town on a train, no one comes to meet her, and no one is going to come, a great musical cue comes up on the soundtrack. Then she walks into the train station, the camera moves up over the roof of the station and shows the whole town--an idealized, not meant to be entirely real version of the west--and then you gradually hear natural sounds coming in with the music--horses, etc. I give Morricone a lot of credit here because he composed much of the score first and Leone directed his actors and planned his camera movements based on what Morricone did. You can watch the scene here.

Interesting to hear that your wife was offered a role in Once Upon a Time in America, Tee. I'd definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. I think some scenes and sequences are absolutely unimprovable--parts of the 1918 sequences especially would convince me that it's one of the greatest, most perfect films ever made. (I think it is hurt a tiny bit in terms of authenticity in little details like character names of Philip, Patrick, or Dominic--although maybe Dominic is supposed to be Italian--for characters who are supposed to be first generation Americans, the children of Eastern European Jews on the Lower East Side of Manhattan.) I think some of the attitudes towards women are troubling. I was attacked by one former and one current member of the board for saying so a few years ago, but I still believe that, although I will concede that Elizabeth McGovern's character can be read very differently, especially if you subscribe to a certain theory about the 1968 sequences. I don't think there's a thematic explanation out of the way the film treats Tuesday Weld's character, although she has a genuinely great scene with DeNiro--you'll know it when you see it. It's a fascinating movie that I really love despite its issues. I think Morricone's score is one of his best--"Deobrah's Theme" has always been a favorite, although it is hard to listen to it and "Jill's Theme" from Once Upon a Time in the West (played in the link above) without hearing some major similarities.

[Mister Tee]

Well, to clear it up for you guys:

1) I've never been reticent about saying Westerns just aren't my thing. I've had to force myself to watch a lot of "classics", and not much enjoyed many of them (including Stagecoach and The Searchers). My one venture into Leone-land was Once Upon a Time in the West, and, confession: I found it pretty excruciating -- somehow over-cut and slow-paced at the same time.

2) His movies are so damn long. If you're not looking forward to seeing something to begin with, knowing ahead of time it'll eat up three hours of your life is strong deterrent.

Apropos of which: I actually DVR-d The Good, the Bad and the Ugly...in 2016! And it's still sitting there unwatched.

I've also got Once Upon a Time in America DVR-d -- more recent; from the past few months. I'm more likely to watch that because a) not a Western and b) my wife was offered a role by Leone, which she had to turn down because the Nine producers wouldn't give her the time off, and I'd like to guess at which one it was.

I'm always open to my expectations being confounded, and some day or other I'll get around to watching The Good the Bad (it's why I DVR-d it). Will let you know if I like it.

[Reza]

I've actually never seen The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but the music is implanted in my head because it was a top five radio hit when I was in high school. Indelible theme. His career of course had so much more to it, but that one credit alone would have put him in the books.

I'm genuinely shocked never seen TGTBATG Mister Tee.

Ditto

[Precious Doll]

I've actually never seen The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but the music is implanted in my head because it was a top five radio hit when I was in high school. Indelible theme. His career of course had so much more to it, but that one credit alone would have put him in the books.

I'm genuinely shocked never seen TGTBATG Mister Tee.

[mlrg]

I've actually never seen The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but the music is implanted in my head because it was a top five radio hit when I was in high school. Indelible theme. His career of course had so much more to it, but that one credit alone would have put him in the books.

Also, The Mission, The Untouchables, Once Upon a Time in America, Once Upon a time in the West, Cinema Paradiso and so many other iconic scores...

[Mister Tee]

I've actually never seen The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but the music is implanted in my head because it was a top five radio hit when I was in high school. Indelible theme. His career of course had so much more to it, but that one credit alone would have put him in the books.