Brave reviews

User avatar
Sonic Youth
Tenured Laureate
Posts: 8003
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:35 pm
Location: USA

Re: Brave reviews

Post by Sonic Youth »

My reaction was also generally lukewarm, but it would appear that the things Sabin liked and disliked about Brave are the exact opposite of what I liked and didn't like. Since I've never seen Brother Bear the transformation was new to me, and I found it to be a very refreshing plot development, classic folklorism at its most potentially unsettling. And although it doesn't explore all the dark possibilities, by the end I was moved by the mother-daughter relationship (despite the protagonist... more on that later). Part of the reason was because the queen-turned-bear was a lovely little creation, a sweet, overgrown oaf, moderately confused and slightly ashamed by their plight, kind of like someone who wakes up in public and discovers they're in their underwear, but is only mildly embarrassed. That the bear was female was a pleasant change after the preponderance of animated male bears over the years. (Perhaps this is the gender breakthrough Brave set out to acheive?) But the other reason I accepted the metamorphosis, unfortunately, is because the set-up - the entire first half - is so routine and unengaging that the midway point is more than welcome. I enjoyed watching the complications sort themselves out during the second half of Brave, but this is not great Pixar and while I'm glad the company is trying to stretch, "growing up" doesn't suit them well.

Sounds like a great idea to take a modern animated female protagonist like Mulan, Pocahontas or Ariel the Little Mermaid and give them a story about independence and breaking free of conventions, only without a handsome Prince Charming as their rescuer and without all those funny little animal friends hanging around, right? Now imagine watching Mulan, Pocahontas or The Little Mermaid with their limited personalities carrying the movie all by themselves, without the Prince Charming and without the funny animals. Dull as shit, right? That's the first half of Brave in a nutshell: stiflingly conventional with an uninteresting personality to focus on and not all that much to distract us from it. True, Merrida isn't sickeningly noble and goody-goody as those other protags. But she's a petulant, unappealing brat and I don't care how fetching Kelly MacDonald's Scottish accent is. (When she kept pleading to Mother Bear "It's not my fault! It's the witches fault!" I was praying for her to get mauled.) This is a character without a purpose. I had no idea what her goal was. What did she want? She refused marriage, but that's what she DIDN'T want to do. She enjoyed exploring and athleticism, but that's what she LIKED to do. What did she want from life that her current situation made an unlikelyhood, something that would define her character? Unless I thoroughly missed it, there wasn't anything. And if this is a story about independence and personal growth, both the central character and the story would be far more compelling if there were something she strived for. And for a story about independence and personal growth, it's ironic that one of the end results of Merida's adventures is that she learned to appreciate living at home more.

There's also embarrasingly portentious voice-overs about fate and how we carry it within ourselves, and solemn, trite folk-pop songs, stuff I'd never have guessed Pixar would resort to. Add lots of boy-pandering comic relief, intricately staged sight gags that feel second-hand, and a gloomy visual palette that gives the impression it was "filmed" in natural light (meaning, lots of semi-dark interiors lit by torches on the walls) and the first half is just death to sit through. This being Pixar, there's a lot of pleasures to be had anyway, most of it physical: the textures of the burlap, the misty drops of the waterfall, the impossibly smooth and shiny silk dresses, Merida's breathtaking hair which is practically its own character. So, there is creativity here. I just wonder why it wasn't applied to setpieces like the madcap archery competition, which proceeds exactly as you'd expect it to. Is it any wonder I fell for the bear?
"What the hell?"
Win Butler
Sabin
Laureate Emeritus
Posts: 10747
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:52 am
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by Sabin »

Oscarguy wrote
What I'm saying is you seem to be basing the primary crux of your frustration with the film on not thinking the second act works. I think it works quite well. I was intrigued and never bored even if it was "light" on the intensity. I thought the film built quite well from opening to close and while it might have had a couple of small dull spots, the overall thrust of the film worked for me.
When a movie's second act doesn't work, that's basically saying most of the film doesn't work. A movie with a bad first act but a good second and third? That's forgivable. A movie with a terrible third act? I can turn the movie off if I ever want to see it again. But a thin second act? That's the worst. If it worked for you, that's great. The spirit of the movie and what it's trying to do (indulge me) is kinda special, so I get it, Wes. But I didn't think anything real fun was had with the transformation, that there were very few of the glorious plot complications that make Pixar heads and shoulders above the rest of the crop.
Oscarguy wrote
And giving it a high 2-stars doesn't sound like you liked it at all. I could buy it with a 2.5-star rating or especially a 3-star one, but 2 stars is hardly admiration, IMO.
Four Stars - Masterpiece. No flaws worth mentioning.
Three and a Half Stars - Something Great. One of the best films of the year. Some very mild reservations.
Three Stars - Absolutely Worth Checking Out. Either a film that aimed for greatness but fell short, or a film that totally succeeds within its modest trappings.
Two and a Half Stars - Borderline. More good than bad. Some may like it.
Two Stars - Did Not Work For Me. Nothing terrible, just disappointing.
One and a Half Stars - Gah! Irritating! Either wasted potential or a needless existence.
One Star - Precious.
"How's the despair?"
The Original BJ
Emeritus
Posts: 4312
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:49 pm

Re: Brave reviews

Post by The Original BJ »

I didn't like it either. On the Pixar scale, the best I can say is "not as bad as Cars 2," which is really disappointing, as I've been a big cheerleader for Pixar over the years.

My biggest problem with the movie is that it basically rehashes the major conceit of a not-ten-years-old Disney movie, Brother Bear. And talk about a movie that didn't need to be rehashed, much less made once! In both movies, a spell transforms a main character into a bear, which forces everyone to learn major life lessons. Toss in the plot point that the spell must be reversed in a certain period of time or the character will remain a bear forever (that part's lifted from Beauty and the Beast) and, voila, you have Brave!

And Sabin is totally right -- this plot is thin, thin, THIN! Given that many of Pixar's plots have resembled tightly wound machines, this comes as a sore disappointment. Not really all that much happens. It's pretty obvious where this movie is going, and it sort of just ambles its way toward its inevitable conclusion with nary an exciting plot turn or reversal. And the movie feels strangely underpopulated -- where's the memorable gaggle of characters that has filled out many a Pixar flick? What we get is essentially a two-hander between our protagonist, Merida (who is quite well-designed and voiced by Kelly Macdonald) and her bear-mom (who is not that interesting). I know much has been made of the fact that the film leaves its female heroine without a romantic interest, but I honestly would have preferred an interesting love interest (or, frankly, any another relationship) to supplement the pretty bare-bones nature of this plot.

It's not actively irritating (at least Cars's Mater isn't the protagonist!) and visually, it's predictably beautiful, but the script felt to me like a first draft that needed a couple more rounds through the rewriting process before it was ready to go. And please, no more movies about people turning into bears for a while.
User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 13668
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by OscarGuy »

What I'm saying is you seem to be basing the primary crux of your frustration with the film on not thinking the second act works. I think it works quite well. I was intrigued and never bored even if it was "light" on the intensity. I thought the film built quite well from opening to close and while it might have had a couple of small dull spots, the overall thrust of the film worked for me.

And giving it a high 2-stars doesn't sound like you liked it at all. I could buy it with a 2.5-star rating or especially a 3-star one, but 2 stars is hardly admiration, IMO.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Sabin
Laureate Emeritus
Posts: 10747
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:52 am
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by Sabin »

Oscarguy wrote
spoilers...

When her mother acts like a bear, she begins to lose herself in the bear and it's only when she straightens up and tries to act like a human that she can regain her self. I don't know if you're expecting Dostoyevsky here, but I think you're investing far more into trying to find reasons to hate it than actually hating it. If your excuse for not liking the film is a personal preference to how second act dynamics should work, then I think you're taking thinsg far too seriously.
I'm not expecting Dostoyevsky here. I don't even hate the film. I'm on the very high end of two stars with it. In fact, the only thing I mentioned of screenplay-speak in my previous post is that I happen to like when her mother becomes a bear, so I don't understand where you got that.

Well, that and the fact that the second act is pretty thin. Which it is!

The point I'm making is very clear: when Merrida's mother becomes a bear, there isn't anything terribly fun about it. She just eats fish to a montage song and starts to lose her personality. For a Pixar movie or even a Disney movie, there isn't a lot that happens in Brave after she turns into a bear. It's like the filmmakers thought that the spark of idea would do the heavy-lifting. But it doesn't.

Also, I'm a little confused. Aren't you a critic? Don't you review for some zine or something? Why are you telling me to not take things seriously when part-time this is what you do? I'm a screenwriter, so I'm naturally interested in plot mechanics. Shouldn't you welcome this kind of this?
"How's the despair?"
User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 13668
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by OscarGuy »

spoilers...

When her mother acts like a bear, she begins to lose herself in the bear and it's only when she straightens up and tries to act like a human that she can regain her self. I don't know if you're expecting Dostoyevsky here, but I think you're investing far more into trying to find reasons to hate it than actually hating it. If your excuse for not liking the film is a personal preference to how second act dynamics should work, then I think you're taking thinsg far too seriously.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Sabin
Laureate Emeritus
Posts: 10747
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:52 am
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by Sabin »

SPOILERS...
...
...
...
...okay, yes, her transformation into a bear added a lot to the film. I even like that it took place reasonably late into the proceedings so that it plays less like the central adventure and more like the B-Story truly complementing Merrida's central quest for freedom, but once her mother becomes a bear...what fun do they have with that idea? What are some great moments with her mother as a bear (and by that, I mean plot complications) besides her eating fish to a song and standing around and trying to look proper? It's a very thin plot and this device remains strangely underdeveloped.

She becomes a bear, they go to sleep, Merrida has a dream, they wake up, her mother eats fish to an endlessly long song, we see that she might lose her personality and become a bear permanently, Merrida investigates some ruins where they meet the bear that took her father's leg and the central antagonist they must all band together to face later, and then they realize that what they need is back at home this entire time so they turn back...that's basically your second act. So very thin.
"How's the despair?"
User avatar
rolotomasi99
Professor
Posts: 2108
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:13 pm
Location: n/a
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by rolotomasi99 »

rolotomasi99 wrote:
ksrymy wrote:
Mister Tee wrote:As odious a thing as it is to judge by a trailer, these reviews confirm the sense I got from it: that this could be a cartoon from any studio.
Did it honestly strike no one else that it seems like Pixar is trying to reap the success of DreamWorks' How to Train Your Dragon?
With its strong female protagonist, magical elements, and family drama, it sounds like Pixar has come pretty damn close to making a studio Ghibli film. After the abomination that was CARS 2, I am looking forward to BRAVE.
Having now seen BRAVE, I can confirm this film was absolutely inspired by Miyazaki. Witches, transformations, forest spirits, strong females. It was wonderful. This movie was beautiful, exciting, funny, and very touching.

*Spoilers*
Not once does a male come to Merida's rescure, and the only time anyone comes to her rescue is her mother. Merida also comes to her mother's rescue in a wonderful "Get away from her you bitch!" moment when she fights off her father and the other men. I am also very grateful that unlike so many other Disney films with strong females, the movie does not end with her being married or even romantically connected to anyone. I love Ariel, Belle, and other strong Disney females, but their stories all ended with them marrying and settling down. I would like to think Merida takes after another strong red-headed queen (Ms. Elizabeth the first), and rules her kingdom without a king.
*End Spoilers*

After sitting through endless previews for lesser animated films (DESPICABLE ME 2, ICE AGE 4, and HOTEL TRANSYLVANIA), I was so happy to finally see the Pixar logo on-screen. That little hopping lamp is always a reliable indicator of high quality cinema (CARS 2 being the frustrating exception). While certain recent animated films have reached the same magical and clever heights of a Pixar film (HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON, RANGO, FANTASTIC MR. FOX), no studio in this country is producing such a high rate of quality films. I am nervous about the prequel to MONSTER'S INC, but hopefully they learned from their CARS 2 sins.

If you love well made and entertaining movies, than definitely see BRAVE in theatres. The visuals are amazing and deserve to be seen on the big screen.
"When it comes to the subject of torture, I trust a woman who was married to James Cameron for three years."
-- Amy Poehler in praise of Zero Dark Thirty director Kathryn Bigelow
User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 13668
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by OscarGuy »

I think the device to which you refer was a bit unusual, but it added a lot to the film. After all, it's set up quite effectively in the opening. These characters are also easily likable, which makes their happenstances feel more organic. It may have felt a bit cobbled together, but I think it worked for what it was. And I was referring to the Disney formula predominantly. Pixar's formula's a tad bit more reality-grounded (as odd as that sounds for an animated film). This one went fantasy in a way we really hadn't seen before. I can understand why some expecting a Pixar formula might be disappointed, but I have to disagree. I thoroughly enjoyed it and it may be one of the least childish of their films. One of my key problems with Pixar over the years has been that while playing very well to adults, they still rely to heavily on minor, unnecessary comic relief characters (the humans in WALL-E, the dog in Up, the sharks in Finding Nemo). Disney has done this for years, but Pixar dumbs down some of their product with these unnecessary characters. That's why when the don't rely so heavily on them in something like this, something Disney itself would have done ad nauseum, I think it works incredibly well.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Sabin
Laureate Emeritus
Posts: 10747
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:52 am
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by Sabin »

I'm going to assume you're describing the Disney formula and not the Pixar formula. What I'm saying is that I don't think it works either formula well, that there is very little fun to be had with Brave's thirty minute-into-the-movie device, with the central two character relationship...it really just feels thrown together in a way that no Pixar movie has.

What I'll fess to is how much I wanted to like it, and if what it sets up carries enough of the weight for you, then bully!
"How's the despair?"
User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 13668
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by OscarGuy »

I thought it was fantastic and probably one of the most affecting Pixar films they've done so far. It may not be as adventurous as some of their past efforts, but does everything have to be new and inventive to be good? No. Sometimes, the best movies take a great formula and work it well.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Sabin
Laureate Emeritus
Posts: 10747
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:52 am
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by Sabin »

There will be spoilers below but without having seen Cars 2 I can safely say that Brave is the first Pixar film that I haven't liked. For a moment, I was mildly positive like Cars, but whereas John Lasseter's film merely presents us with the usual Pixar narrative efficiency amidst a dull canvas, Brave is the first Pixar film that honestly feels lazy. It's not cheap, like some of the Dreamworks animated features. But it feels thrown together, like a Pixar movie made by non-Pixar people. And what's strange is that it wouldn't have taken much to put this film into high-gear. All the ingredients are there but very little fun is being had with the devices.

So, I went on imdb to look at the credits. We have two directors, one co-director, and four screenwriters. Somebody in that room wasn't contributing. Somebody was just eating food and saying "Yeah, great!" Or we have somebody who just wasn't the right person to drive the engine of the story forward. I look at Mark Andrews, Steve Purcell, Brenda Chapman, and Irene Mecchi, and I think it's going to end up being Mecchi, the Disney writer. I have little doubt that she was instrumental in pushing this script towards completion, but Brave is missing the quality her features have never possessed. I cannot emphasize how much this screenplay could have benefited from a rewrite.

SPOILERS

So, Brave begins as a very typical Disney tale of a young tomboy who dreams of more. Although the film does not really set up something majestical in the landscape the way that countless other films (let alone How to Train Your Dagon) pulled off effortlessly, there is a nice energy to the way the characters interact and how the camera tracks them. Very charming. Merrida (beautifully voiced by Kelly MacDonald and amazingly well-animated) wins the right to her own hand in an archery competition and after a fight with her mother ends up leaving the town where she encounters a witch who makes her a potion that once given to her mother will change her...mind. Now, it's here the vagaries set in. Merrida tells the witch that she wants to control her own fate, so why must she give something to her mother? There is an almost eerie poisoning quality to giving her mother the little cake and how she immediately falls ill. But regardless, what Merrida wants is something that will change her mother's mind about marrying her off. Instead...

...the little cake turns her mother into a bear. Not just any bear. The bear that might be the one that took her father's leg. The trailers did a masterful job of covering that up. There is some humor in daughter sneaking bear-mom out of the castle and in their subsequent bonding, but it's not a push-and-pull dynamic towards mutual betterment. Their journey towards undoing her transformation is an oddly underdeveloped one. All Merrida has to do is one simple task back in the castle where she came from and the roadblocks along the way feel very arbitrary. It leads to an incredibly stupid scene where Merrida has to distract all the clansmen in the castle while her bear-mother walks past them in plain sight up the stairs...probably the dumbest scene you will see all year.

I won't go anymore into the failings of the screenplay, but I cannot emphasize enough how everything they need to make this movie work is there, but not organized properly and creatively enough. What I would love to say is that Merrida as a physical creation is more than fun enough to warrant recommending this film. Make no mistake about it, this is a movie written and directed by a woman with a woman's perspective on the world...and that is very welcome. The first thirty minutes are ultimately out of a more tiresome film but there is a confidence in the directing and the characters. The movie that Brave becomes is more surprising and inventive but ultimately it has no idea what to do with itself...which is to say, everybody clearly got in love with the idea and never bothered to ask if the screenplay they wrote was ready to animate (oops, did it again!). Merrida is a great little comic figure who isn't quite given a world to challenge her, and so Brave feels more like a triumph of intention rather than anything else.
"How's the despair?"
ksrymy
Adjunct
Posts: 1164
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:10 am
Location: Wichita, KS
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by ksrymy »

The one thing for which I'd see Brave would be Kelly Macdonald who I think is incredibly underrated.

Oh, and Craig Ferguson. Definitely Craig Ferguson.
"Men get to be a mixture of the charming mannerisms of the women they have known." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
User avatar
rolotomasi99
Professor
Posts: 2108
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:13 pm
Location: n/a
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by rolotomasi99 »

ksrymy wrote:
Mister Tee wrote:As odious a thing as it is to judge by a trailer, these reviews confirm the sense I got from it: that this could be a cartoon from any studio.
Did it honestly strike no one else that it seems like Pixar is trying to reap the success of DreamWorks' How to Train Your Dragon?
With its strong female protagonist, magical elements, and family drama, it sounds like Pixar has come pretty damn close to making a studio Ghibli film. After the abomination that was CARS 2, I am looking forward to BRAVE.
"When it comes to the subject of torture, I trust a woman who was married to James Cameron for three years."
-- Amy Poehler in praise of Zero Dark Thirty director Kathryn Bigelow
ksrymy
Adjunct
Posts: 1164
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:10 am
Location: Wichita, KS
Contact:

Re: Brave reviews

Post by ksrymy »

Mister Tee wrote:As odious a thing as it is to judge by a trailer, these reviews confirm the sense I got from it: that this could be a cartoon from any studio.
Did it honestly strike no one else that it seems like Pixar is trying to reap the success of DreamWorks' How to Train Your Dragon?
"Men get to be a mixture of the charming mannerisms of the women they have known." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
Post Reply

Return to “2012”