The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Sabin » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:59 pm

So, like, does a vampire eat a placenta in this thing?
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Damien » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:57 pm

MovieWes wrote:
Damien wrote:Wes, have you even seen any of the Twilight movies?


I've seen the first 2 films. The first one was hilariously bad and the second one was bad, but lacked the bad movie entertainment value of the first. I'm probably going to finish the franchise, but I'm not a fan.


Wes, that question was actually addressed to Oscar Guy after his putdown of the franchise. Glad you at least saw two of them. :)
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby MovieWes » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:00 pm

Damien wrote:Wes, have you even seen any of the Twilight movies?


I've seen the first 2 films. The first one was hilariously bad and the second one was bad, but lacked the bad movie entertainment value of the first. I'm probably going to finish the franchise, but I'm not a fan.
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Damien » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:17 pm

MovieWes wrote:No offense to Damien, but Bill Condon sold out when he signed on to direct Breaking Dawn. He's receiving the worst reviews of his career, but its opening weekend was higher than the combined total grosses of his last 3 movies, so...


Bill Condon's first two screen credits were as co-writer of the scripts of a horror film (Strange Behavior) and a Sci-Fi movie (Strange Invaders). His first job directing professionally was an episode of the TV series, Tales From The Crypt. His first featitre film was a gothic thriller, Sister, Sister. His second was Candyman: Farewell To The Fresh.

He's always been drawn to the horror genre (and when he made a movie about a faded gay director in late 1950s Hollywood, it was Frankenstein director James Whale, when it could just as easily have been light comedy specialist Mitchell Leisen) so this is hardly a sell-out. It's a return to his roots and if it's a lucrative return, so what?

As for the reviews, well, a lot of reviewers are always going to have their knives out for movies with obsessive cult-followings, especially female-oriented vehicles like Twilight. But it did receive a number of nice notices, including from Carrie Rickey of the Philadelphia Inquirerer: ("Think of Breaking Dawn Part 1 as an extension of Condon's Gods and Monsters, his haunting film about the erotic obsessions of filmmaker James Whale, who directed Frankenstein. Call this intoxicating brew, with equal parts Bride of Frankenstein and Rosemary's Baby, Goddess and Monsters."

Stephanie Zacharek of Movieline: " Director Bill Condon steers the franchise away from visions of wan, suffering teens and fake-fur werewolf tussles and brings it closer to — if not necessarily close to — something resembling human adult sexual obsession and its attendant responsibilities and anxieties. It’s like Jules and Jim for the Tiger Beat set."

Scott Bowles of USA Today: "Let's face it: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part 1 would be a blockbuster if the film were about Edward and Bella watching an apple rot. Fortunately for the Twi-hards, Dawn instead plucks the apple, beginning a two-part eviction from heaven. It is in many respects the best installment of the franchise as its stars go from sullen kids to sullen young adults, where their expressions look more natural. The movie also is in its most capable hands with director Bill Condon (Gods and Monsters). And while no one is going to confuse Dawn with Nosferatu, the series is finding momentum as it nears its finale."

Rene Rodriguez of the Miami Herald: "Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part 1 does something that no other previous Twilight movie had achieved: This one draws you close and keeps you there . . . Condon gives Breaking Dawn a visual elegance and style the other films lacked. Right from the start, the movie feels different — more mature and confident and substantial — which is critical, because the story is about to take some loopy twists, pushing up into territory far more bizarre than any of the previous pictures suggested."

David Edelstein of New York magazine: "he Bella-Edward-Jacob triangle at last lives up to the mass hysteria in Bill Condon’s The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn—Part 1, the ferociously powerful first half of the last quarter of Stephenie Meyer’s series about a girl who gets under the skin of both a vampire and a werewolf and knows that going to bed with either one may get her ripped to pieces but what the hell."

And, most telling, Manohla Dargis of the New York Times, who admiited to falling asleep when she went to review Gods and Monsters, enthused, "First came kissing, now comes marriage, a surprisingly rollicking honeymoon and, almost immediately, a horrendous pregnancy that the director Bill Condon makes so palpably disturbing that it might cause David Cronenberg, the master of body horror, to wince. Mr. Condon handles the little bit of action in “Breaking Dawn” capably, but it’s his work with (and sometimes around) the actors and his ability to translate ideas visually that lifts this movie above the rest . . . Mr. Condon He resurrects the awkward teenage yearning that enlivened the first “Twilight” movie, but also transforms that initial, crude hunger into something deeper. Mostly, he brings Bella toward her happily-ever-after by giving this movie over to her, her dreams and her desires, as in a cosmic montage sequence worthy of “The Tree of Life,” but, you know, shorter. Edward may finally change Bella, but it’s Mr. Condon who resurrects her. "
===============
Wes, have you even seen any of the Twilight movies?
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby MovieWes » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:17 pm

No offense to Damien, but Bill Condon sold out when he signed on to direct Breaking Dawn. He's receiving the worst reviews of his career, but its opening weekend was higher than the combined total grosses of his last 3 movies, so...
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Big Magilla » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:32 am

OscarGuy wrote:"Kristen Stewart and her co-stars have been excoriated for their “sullen” and “wooden” performances despite receiving respectable and sometimes highly favorable reviews in other movies in which they have starred."

When I read quotes like these, she sounds more like a Twilight shill than an actual critic.

None of the stars have received anything close to praise for their performances. And the films I've seen starring them indicate they have little to no acting talent and are only famous because of their association with Twilight. And let's not forget that when you compare actors like these with Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson (and to a lesser extene Rupert Grint), then you realize what true youth talent can look like.

And who actually defends actors in one film by citing another film altogether? I may think Ryan Reynolds has talent, but he's delivered many bum performances over the years. The same goes for Jake Gyllenhaal and Keira Knightley. Who would defend Knightley's performance in Pirates of the Caribbean by saying "but she got praise for her work in Pride & Prejudice".

And another thing, her suggestion that critics are rejecting Twilight because it's what women fantasize about is equally ludicrous. Look at True Blood, written by a woman featuring a female protag and her violent encounters with any number of dangerous men all looking to use her. And True Blood has critics singing its praises and it has nothing to do with sexy characters or delusional fantasies. It has to do with a quality of writing, directing and acting that Twilight couldn't begin to achieve.


I watched the first one, couldn't beleive a film so popular could be so bad. The second was just as bad, if not worse. Nothing could make me sit through another one.

All the actors in this crud are bad, but it's the roles they're playing. Anna Kendrick is an Oscar nomine,e for crying out loud, for Up in the Air; Peter Facinelli has done excellent work on TV in Six Feet Under, Nurse Jackie and more; Billy Burke has likewise done a lot of interesting TV work; Dakota Faning has been on the cusp of major stardom for most of her life; Kristen Sewart was outstanding in Into the Wild and Robert Pattinson has been good in otherwsie not so terrific movies as Little Ashes and Remember Me. He was also quite good in Water fro Elephants. It was the usaully reliable Reese Witherspoon who seemed off in that one. Taylor Lautnor is the only one who hasn't done anything worthy of all the attention he gets, but he's young. Give him a chance.

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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby HollywoodZ » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:07 am

In response to Damien's article, I present this review from Lisa Schwarzbaum that actually summarizes what's wrong with this particular type of fantasy and why it shouldn't be as embraced as it is:

Movie Review
The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn--Part 1 (2011)
Reviewed by Lisa Schwarzbaum | Nov 22, 2011

EW's GRADE: C-

Bella Swan has had the benefit of my doubt for the previous three installments of The Twilight Saga. But in Breaking Dawn — Part 1, this perpetually sad/sullen/wincing young woman — played as if every scene gives her cramps by the otherwise interesting Kristen Stewart — is a big drip. She's maddeningly inarticulate. She's distressingly passive. She's a bad role model for girls. So, I say enough. Enough with Bella's depressed, ragdoll posture and her eternal gloom. And a pox on Breaking Dawn, the movie, for its contented complicity with Stephenie Meyer's ultimately awful message to millions of readers. What we learn in this all-pain/no-pleasure episode is that marriage feels like a life sentence, weddings are miserable events, honeymoon sex is dangerous and leaves a bride covered in bruises, and pregnancy is a torment that leads to death in exchange for birth. Also, during pregnancy, families fight like werewolves and vampires. Way to go, YA message. At least Bella's wedding gown is pretty. Ooh! Cue the fashion blogs.

Yes, I know, Twilight fans love The Twilight Saga. But they (you?) deserve something better to love.

Nothing goes right for our resigned heroine. She hates the foot-squishing, wobble-inducing high-heeled pumps urged on her by her stylish vampire sister-in-law-to-be Alice (Ashley Greene) — Alice is the designated wedding planner — but Bella doesn't even know how to put her foot down to demand an alternative. She has incapacitating, panic-attack-sized wedding jitters. (Could she could be panicking because she's ridiculously young to be getting married to a vampire instead of, oh, furthering her education or pursuing a career or finding out what she really wants out of life? Nah, that's just the liberal-elite feminist in me talking.) Edward (Robert Pattinson), Bella's fancy-haired, blood-sucking groom, is solicitous. But since Bella doesn't know how to speak to her beloved — you know, with words — the two just gaze into each other's eyes in the shared romantic agony of a young couple in over their heads. Jacob the werewolf (Taylor Lautner, shirtless within 15 seconds of his first appearance) shows up at the wedding, never missing an opportunity to be really, really angry. Bella shows her pleasure at Jacob's appearance by looking fetchingly stricken — she still loves him, naturally, just not in that way. Jacob responds by being angry.

Bella has the haggard look of a prisoner on her honeymoon with Edward in Brazilian paradise. Director Bill Condon and his production team use every dollar of their big budget to make a very handsome picture, but what's the fun of luxe scenery (or a fairytale wedding) under such circumstances? Countless blog posts can and will be written about the couple's honeymoon sex life — ''I'm hurting you!'' Edward groans with guilt. ''No. It's. Good,'' says Bella, wincing. Perhaps I'll add my own blog post to the ephemeral literature in a few days. Just know this: The overall message of Breaking Dawn is that humans must suffer on this earth. Especially women. Jeez, pregnancy and childbirth, staged with exorbitant production-design attention to gyno-catastrophe, look like scenes of full-on, fright-night horror.

As The Twilight Saga grinds to its conclusion with the upcoming Breaking Dawn — Part 2, neither the trendiness of vampires and werewolves, nor the playful vox pop fun of declaring allegiance to Team Edward and Team Jacob are enough to justify the prim sermon of fleshly punishment that is Twilight's eternal, hooey-filled message of damnation. C-

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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Dien » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:09 pm

I thought the issue wasn't the 'female fantasy' but the fact she can't function in any way without the guy and the world was meaningless otherwise.

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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby OscarGuy » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:01 pm

"Kristen Stewart and her co-stars have been excoriated for their “sullen” and “wooden” performances despite receiving respectable and sometimes highly favorable reviews in other movies in which they have starred."

When I read quotes like these, she sounds more like a Twilight shill than an actual critic.

None of the stars have received anything close to praise for their performances. And the films I've seen starring them indicate they have little to no acting talent and are only famous because of their association with Twilight. And let's not forget that when you compare actors like these with Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson (and to a lesser extene Rupert Grint), then you realize what true youth talent can look like.

And who actually defends actors in one film by citing another film altogether? I may think Ryan Reynolds has talent, but he's delivered many bum performances over the years. The same goes for Jake Gyllenhaal and Keira Knightley. Who would defend Knightley's performance in Pirates of the Caribbean by saying "but she got praise for her work in Pride & Prejudice".

And another thing, her suggestion that critics are rejecting Twilight because it's what women fantasize about is equally ludicrous. Look at True Blood, written by a woman featuring a female protag and her violent encounters with any number of dangerous men all looking to use her. And True Blood has critics singing its praises and it has nothing to do with sexy characters or delusional fantasies. It has to do with a quality of writing, directing and acting that Twilight couldn't begin to achieve.
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Damien » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:54 pm

Frome Time.com:

The Harsh Bigotry of Twilight-Haters
Why is it that female fantasy is so derided and feared?
By ERIKA CHRISTAKIS | November 21, 2011

Hating Twilight is so 2009, and with the newest installment, Breaking Dawn, ruling the box office, the juggernaut hardly needs defenders. But the virulent seriousness of the haters is surprising. Many of the reviews have heaped disproportionate and moralizing scorn on an Oscar-winning director’s fantasy enactment of a young girl’s dreams and fears. Kristen Stewart and her co-stars have been excoriated for their “sullen” and “wooden” performances despite receiving respectable and sometimes highly favorable reviews in other movies in which they have starred.

The negative reactions fall in two camps: The dismissive camp simply mocks Twilight’s incorporation of silly, “moony” elements like undying love and the surprisingly authentic portrayal of wedding ritual, honeymoon jitters and the shock of unintended pregnancy; the topics are apparently too boring and unrelatable for most reviewers. The deluded camp, conversely, takes Twilight far too seriously, faulting it for leading young girls to mistake fantasy for reality in dangerous, disempowering ways.

It makes you wonder if some people missed the memo that hundreds of millions of females, like their male counterparts, enjoy their fantasy life straight-up weird, sexy, and implausible.

Why is it that female fantasies are such a source of derision and fear? The male species is allowed all manner of violent, creepy, ludicrous and degrading movie tropes, and while we may not embrace them as high art, no one questions them seriously as entertainment, even when sometimes we probably should. (Violent imagery is, after all, associated with violent behavior.) You want to saw someone in half or put their head in a vise? Showcase naked strippers as a fake plot device? Pair a beautiful and successful career woman with a slovenly, unemployed man? Pretend you are Wolverine? Go right ahead. We know you can’t really be serious. But watch a tender wedding night between a virginal, undead superhero and his teenage, human bride, and the scolds come out in force. Are parents worried that their teenage daughter actually wants to be impregnated by a 100-year-old vampire who can crush a headboard with his hands (and perform an emergency C-section with his teeth)?

Maybe part of the reason critics deplore these movies is not only because they are so unfamiliar with kooky heterosexual female fantasies but also because they don’t really like what these fantasies say about men.

The discomfiting reality of the Twilight phenomenon is the way it strips off the veneer of détente between the sexes. For all the progress we promised our daughters, women’s bodily experiences mark them in ways not only unimaginable, but also uninteresting and even repulsive, to men. When was the last time (or only time) you saw a movie that featured menstruation? (The Runaways, directed by … a woman.)

Most mothers know the sense of their body being taken over by aliens, and more than 500,000 women still die in childbirth every year worldwide. Is it really so surprising that we would be drawn to Bella’s gruesome tribulations? For all its tremendous ick factor and craziness, the vampire-hybrid delivery captured with excruciating realism the desperation (on poor Edward’s bloodied face) that attends a birth when things go badly wrong. You could hear a pin drop at the screening my daughter and I attended. The gothic horror felt more palpable because it merely exaggerated, rather than imagined sui generis, what many women go through every day. We sure know blood.

The other thing women know all too well is the lurking danger of men. The idea of a wildly earnest romantic lead who isn’t demanding oral sex in the high school parking lot (and who happens to look like Robert Pattinson) is all very appealing, no? Yet our perfect vampire man, alas, also has the capacity to inflict serious harm — much like in the non-cinematic world, as even 5-year-old girls can intuit.

You don’t have to read Steven Pinker’s fine new book on violence, The Better Angels of our Nature, to grasp that women have always been its singular victims. The devastating power of rape, which results in pregnancy 5% of the time, according to a 1996 study in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, is its ability to “change the progeny” of a woman forever. This threat often clouds our real lives and it certainly clouds our confused notions of entertainment. Is it any wonder that the young man whose heart Bella tosses aside for Edward is, you guessed it, a wolf? As one of my jaded neighbors once opined, “All men is half dog.”

If this offends you, take a number. Women have long endured men’s insulting and unhinged fantasies. Just lie back and enjoy the estrogen drip.

Erika Christakis, M.P.H, M.Ed., is an early childhood educator and Harvard College administrator. The views expressed are her own.
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Dien » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:16 pm

Greg wrote:Maybe they should put that in the trailer. Breaking Dawn -- Part 1: This time it will reach under your rim.


I think I saw this on a poster.

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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Greg » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:27 am

Maybe they should put that in the trailer. Breaking Dawn -- Part 1: This time it will reach under your rim.
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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Dien » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:58 pm

The quality of toilet scrubbers varies greatly. If you're lucky you can find the double-brush kind that can reach under the rim.

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Re: The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby OscarGuy » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:38 pm

Being the best of the Twilight series is like being the best toilet scrubber...
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The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I

Postby Damien » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:08 pm

In the NY Times. Manohla Dargis calls The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part I the best of the Twilight movies.


http://movies.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/mo ... l?ref=arts
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