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ITALIANO
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Post by ITALIANO »

It will open here tomorrow. So we will see.
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Post by Big Magilla »

ITALIANO wrote:The massacre of Sant'Anna di Stazzema was one of the most infamous events in Italian history - 560 innocent people were killed, and they were killed by the Nazis. This is a fact. And it's so tragic, and still so painful in this country, that no Italian director has ever made a movie out of it - so it's not like there are several versions of the story already. Now, I don't have anything against an American director who decides to do so, but then if he invents a "bad partisan" as the cause of the massacre, well, he must know that the world will accept his version of the story as the only one, the true one. And it simply isn't so.
Well, let's hope all the negative publicity about the film has has enlightened the film's limited audience.
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Post by ITALIANO »

Penelope wrote:Italiano, any comment?
What can I say... I met this guy personally a few years ago - I interviewed him - so I am not surprised. But really, one - even if he's a "famous" director - can't go on the main news program in the main Italian tv channel and start by proclaming: "I want to say something clearly now: there were good Nazis". First of all it's not like nobody has ever said this before (and I'm not referring only to the Nazis themselves), but also, there is a difference, though probably a subtle one, between saying "There were good GERMANS" and "There were good Nazis". The Nazi ideology wasn't good, or if you say it was, you are making a strong political statement, and you must accept the consequences, at least in Europe.

The level of his other interviews has been even worse. I am often on this board, so I have come to know the American idea of "democracy", but other Italians are less prepared to that. Applied to movies, or to the judgement of movies, it's absurd but bearable and even endearing; but history is something different, you can't play with it, you can't just say "there were good and bad people on both sides", you MUST realize that there was, back then, someone who was right and someone who was wrong. And that, even back then, it was possible to see which the right side was - though it was dangerous, risky. I don't want to sound antiamerican now (like many Italians who are commenting Spike Lee's words these days), so I won't say that you must HAVE an history before talking about history - but at least you should know it.

The massacre of Sant'Anna di Stazzema was one of the most infamous events in Italian history - 560 innocent people were killed, and they were killed by the Nazis. This is a fact. And it's so tragic, and still so painful in this country, that no Italian director has ever made a movie out of it - so it's not like there are several versions of the story already. Now, I don't have anything against an American director who decides to do so, but then if he invents a "bad partisan" as the cause of the massacre, well, he must know that the world will accept his version of the story as the only one, the true one. And it simply isn't so.
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Post by flipp525 »

rolotomasi99 wrote:davis was barely shown in the DOUBT trailer so it is hard to say.

Davis' role in Doubt is brief, but packs a powerful, emotional punch. It's one of those one scene tours-de-force that have won Oscars in the past for actors such as Beatrice Straight.




Edited By flipp525 on 1222967958
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Post by rolotomasi99 »

MCN's Gurus of Gold

Best Picture
Frost/Nixon
Milk
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Slumdog Millionaire
Revolutionary Road

i sure hope FROST/NIXON does not get nominated. i admit the trailer makes it looks awesome, but the blunt fact is ron howard has only ever been a competent director. MILK is consistently on people's lists, especially after that kick ass trailer. REVOLUTIONARY ROAD does not seem to be getting much love on this board, but i think it looks great. it reminds me of the same cynical nostalgia that drives one of my favorite shows, MAD MEN. THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON looks beautiful, but one early report said it dragged; and now the studio and fincher are in a tug of war about the length. SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE is such a mystery to me. i have read a few online reviews of people who thought it was cute but not all that. i am certainly not counting it out though. i am also not counting out CHANGELING and THE DARK KNIGHT.

Best Actor
Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler
Sean Penn, Milk
Frank Langella, Frost/Nixon
Robert Downey, Jr., The Soloist
Clint Eastwood, Gran Torino

the first three names seem very likely to be nominated. the last name seems possible but i still remain unimpressed with his acting skills. downey is the only one i am actually rooting against. the trailer for THE SOLOIST looks so god awful. why are these same horrible stories told over and over? i would think if dicaprio can be nominated for BLOOD DIAMOND he can manage a nomination for REVOLUTIONARY ROAD, especially if it is nominated for best picture. do not count out ralph fiennes for THE READER.

Best Actress
Meryl Streep, Doubt
Kate Winslet, Revolutionary Road
Anne Hathaway, Rachel Getting Married
Kristin Scott Thomas, I've Loved You so Long
Angelina Jolie, Changeling

this line up i could absolutely see happening. i just wish melissa leo could be squeezed in as well.

Best Supporting Actor
Heath Ledger, The Dark Knight
Philip Seymour Hoffman, Doubt
James Franco, Milk
Jamie Foxx, The Soloist
Michael Sheen, Frost/Nixon

this line up is why i continue to believe they just need to do away with supporting categories all together. like big magilla said, only franco is truly supporting. he and ledger will definitely be nominated in this category. hoffman and sheen will probably deserve nominations, but in which category? it most likely will be this one. apply what i said about downey to foxx as well. i forget who said it here, but eastwood has a good track record with getting long deserving actors a supporting oscar win. as with the rest of CHANGELING, i think malkovich should not be underestimated.

Best Supporting Actress
Penelope Cruz, Vicky Cristina Barcelona
Marisa Tomei, The Wrestler
Viola Davis, Doubt
RoseMarie DeWitt, Rachel Getting Married
Amy Adams, Doubt (tie)
Taraji P. Henson, The Curious case of Benjamin Button (tie)

this category seems the weakest. out of all the names, the one i think is most likely is adams. davis was barely shown in the DOUBT trailer so it is hard to say. dewitt and henson are certainly surprises; not enough to go on to even have an opinion. tomei is a surprise, but makes sense. cruz i am still reluctant about. it has been awhile since we have had one of those sexy-breezy supporting actress nominations -- not since kate hudson. of my own predictions, the only person i feel strongly about is kate winslet for THE READER; but of course that all depends on where harvey decides to put her. i think he will be smart and not try to shoehorn her into lead.




Edited By rolotomasi99 on 1222960600
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Post by paperboy »

Streep looks awful in the trailer. I suspect Kristin Scott Thomas will be this year's Julie Christie at the critics' awards, but will AMPAS want to award back-to-back Oscars to women in French films? Could be Kate's by default.


That reads a little unfair to Kate. After five nominations and the one-two punch of Revolutionary Road and The Reader (plus her general greatness) surely she's deserving.
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Post by Big Magilla »

I've been looking over Oscar Guy's hopefuls and occasionally perusing other prediction sites, but so far no one's lists seemed right, everyone seemed a but "off" until I came across MCN's Gurus of Gold. Granted, I usually find these guys "off" as well, but their list this year "feels" more right than anyone else's thus far.

Best Picture
Frost/Bixon
Milk
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Slumdog Millionaire
Revolutionary Road

I'm a little hesitant to crown Frost/Nixon sight unseen, especially since Ron Howard's films always underwhelm me, but I've underestimated his chances in the past, so it's possible. The one thing that could kick the film out of the picture is the emergence of Oliver Stone's W. as a serious contender. So far it's not getting any respect from the prognosticators, but if it opens to decent reviews and strong box office, it could easily move to front-runner status. It bears watching.

Best Actor
Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler
Sean Penn, Milk
Frank Langella, Frost/Nixon
Robert Downey, Jr., The Soloist
Clint Eastwood, Gran Torino

I remain skeptical about Rourke. Venice notwithstanding, he seems to me to be this year's Jackie Earle Haley, strong enough to earn a nomination, but not the win. We'll see. Eastwood could be knocked out of the running by Leonardo Di Caprio (Revolutionary Road) who placed sixth on their list. Penn, Langella and Downey are all too solid to be ignored.

Best Actress
Meryl Streep, Doubt
Kate Winslet, Revolutionary Road
Anne Hathaway, Rachel Getting Married
Kristin Scott Thomas, I've Loved You so Long
Angelina Jolie, Changeling

I don't know. Streep looks awful in the trailer. I suspect Kristin Scott Thomas will be this year's Julie Christie at the critics' awards, but will AMPAS want to award back-to-back Oscars to women in French films? Could be Kate's by default. Melissa Leo (Frozen River) is the dark horse who could knock Streep off her perch.

Best Supporting Actor
Heath Ledger, The Dark Knight
Philip Seymour Hoffman, Doubt
James Franco, Milk
Jamie Foxx, The Soloist
Michael Sheen, Frost/Nixon

OK, let's not make this a discussion about which category Sheen belongs in. All of these guys, except for Franco, is a co-lead in their film and could be placed in the lead category. Robert Downey, Jr. (Tropic Thunder) is a possible spoiler and by virtue of a double nomination could end up winning over Ledger who at this point seems likely to win by acclamation. We'll have to see what the critics do to get a true assessment.

Best Supporting Actress
Penelope Cruz, Vicky Cristina Barcelona
Marisa Tomei, The Wrestler
Viola Davis, Doubt
RoseMarie DeWitt, Rachel Getting Married
Amy Adams, Doubt (tie)
Taraji P. Henson, The Curious case of Benjamin Button (tie)

Also getting noticed: Vera Farmiga, Boy in the Striped PJs and Elizabeth Banks in W.

As usual, the year's weakest main category. I don't have a clue. Cruz seems as likely as anyone.
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Post by paperboy »

barrybrooks8 wrote:Did anyone on this board dislike Sideways, besides me?
Me.
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Post by Penelope »

I was unable to locate a Miracle at St. Anna thread, and given the bad reviews, I suspect we don't need one. Those reviews, and this controversy have effectively destroyed any chance for awards recognition. Italiano, any comment?

Spike Lee vs. the Italian Resistance
By Jeff Israely

When it comes to history, Spike Lee isn't one to duck a fight. Last spring the New York filmmaker set off a nasty public showdown with Clint Eastwood, whom he criticized for not depicting African-American soldiers in his recent World War II films about Iwo Jima.

But now Lee finds himself defending the historical accuracy of his own World War II movie, Miracle at St. Anna, and this time he is up against real-life fighters who may be even tougher than Dirty Harry. Surviving members of Italy's underground anti-Nazi resistance movement are angry over the film, a fictionalized account of the travails of the 92nd Infantry Division — the black GIs known as Buffalo Soldiers — as they helped liberate Italy. The film includes a portrayal of the Nazis' infamous 1944 slaughter of some 560 Italian civilians in the Tuscan town of Sant'Anna di Stazzema.

In Lee's version, that massacre is depicted as a response to the actions of the Italian resistance fighters and shows one partisan betraying the town in a secret meeting with the Nazis.

But in a 2005 ruling, an Italian military tribunal determined that the massacre was a premeditated plan by the Germans and was in no way provoked by the partisans. Moreno Costa, 82, who fought alongside the African-American unit, was among the former resistance fighters who waged that legal battle, and he met Lee last year before filming began. "He talked about commemorating the Buffalo troops, but he didn't say anything about this betrayal," said Costa, reached by phone in his hometown of Pietrasanta, some six miles from St. Anna. "We are indignant about this. I don't understand why he had to open all this up again."

Giovanni Cipollini, who heads Pietrasanta's local pro-resistance association, said he had offered to put Lee in touch with partisans who were present, but that the director refused. "This is very delicate," he says. "When a famous director makes a major movie about a chapter in history, people will believe that his version is the truth." Cipollini led a group distributing flyers of protest at Wednesday's screening in Viareggio, near the setting of the film.

Lee has said he wanted to make this film, based on a novel by James McBride, to give long-overdue attention to the role of African-American soldiers in World War II. While at work on it, Lee took a swipe at Eastwood over the absence of black soldiers in his historical epics Flags of Our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima. The Californian director fired back: "A guy like that should shut his face," to which Lee replied, "The man is not my father, and we're not on a plantation either."

Characteristically, Lee has not backed down on the European front either. In a press conference after Monday's screening of his film in Rome, his response to the hurt feelings of the Italian resistance was firm. "I am not apologizing for anything," he said. "I think these questions are evidence that there is still a lot about your history during the war that [Italians] have got to come to grips with." He was also quoted in the Italian press as saying there were plenty of cases of resistance fighters fleeing from combat.

Costa, who was 18 years old when he fought in 1944 in the battles around St. Anna, says he will not see the film, especially in light of Lee's reply to the historical questions. "Spike Lee can make whatever film he wants," he says. "I don't know why he wanted to insert that [betrayal] scene. Now he doesn't want to apologize, and attacks us? He could have just kept quiet."

For his part, McBride, who also wrote the screenplay, took a more conciliatory approach at Monday's press conference. "I am very sorry if I have offended the partisans. I have enormous respect for them," he said. "As a black American, we understand what it's like for someone to tell your history, and they are not you. But unfortunately, the history of World War II here in Italy is ours as well, and this was the best I could do." In the words of the screenwriter and the director, one can see the difference between a peacemaker and a warrior.
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Post by Big Magilla »

Stone won the best director Oscar so there couldn't have been any backlash against him. I think it was a close race all along between Born on the Fourth of July, My Left Foot and Driving Miss Daisy, though Bruce Beresford's failure to be nominated for best director put the latter's victory in doubt for a lot of people.
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Post by Sabin »

I've wondered that myself a little bit, Magilla. 'Born on the Fourth of July' had a decisive Golden Globe victory (four wins) and a DGA win. Clearly 'Dead Poets Society' and 'Field of Dreams' weren't going to happen. 'My Left Foot' should have been the winner, but was there just an Oliver Stone backlash.
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Post by Big Magilla »

If I was the first to mention Lost in Translation as a best picture nominee I don't recall it. The last film I remember touting before the world jumped on it was Sideways. Before that it was Gods and Monsters and before that Titanic.

I never hears the term "magic negro" before, but I have heard the terms "good Negro" and "Uncle Tom" as applied to the characters Sidney Poitier played from the mid-1950s to the late 1960s.

I always had a problem with those kinds of cheap shots taken at his characters. There are good people in this world, some of who happen to be black. If his characters were a little too good to be true, then so were a lot of the white characters played by John Wayne, Gregory Peck, Henry Fonda and so on.

Do the Right Thing might have been more realistic, but Driving Miss Daisy was an easier pill for audiences of nearly twenty years ago to take. How it won a best picture Oscar without its director being nominated is still a puzzlement to me, but it is a fascinating character study primarily because of the casting. Morgan Freeman has just enough vinegar in his portrayal to keep his character from being too good-goody and Jessica Tandy is simply amazing as an old lady who ages even more. Conventional wisdom would have been to cast a younger actress who would age beyond her years whereas Tandy pulls off a near miracle feat of acting younger than 80 year old self for most of the film.

As to Slumdog Millionaire's chances, I don't know. Mainstream audiences have been gradually more accepting of Bollywood and Bollywood influenced films in the last ten years or so and Danny Boyle is one of those great "with it" directors who you keep expecting will hit pay dirt at the Oscars "some time" though "some time" has thus far eluded him.

Two things could help the film - 1) the paucity of films anyone really loves this year and 2) the inclination of AMPAS to always want to do do something they haven't done before.

I can't get a read on Mickey Rourke at all. He was never really a part of the Hollywood mainstream, so his "comeback" may be a non-event to a lot of AMPAS voters. I think he'd have to sweep the critics' awards to even be considered a major contender in this year's race, and then he still wouldn't necessarily be the front-runner.




Edited By Big Magilla on 1222893299
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Post by rolotomasi99 »

flipp525 wrote:You're right, rolo. I skimmed through your posts and obviously missed some salient details. I apologize. Let's just move on.

Maybe this all stems from the unresolved angst I feel from the fact that we live in the same neighborhood, yet you won't meet me for a drink. And all this cock-slapping talk is making me fell, well, even more angst-y :p.

i knew it! i was going to say something about that flipp, but i did not want to accuse you of something i could not prove.

i want you to know my not meet you in real life is absolutely nothing personal. i have a very strong rule about not meeting people through the internet. it is just a general safety rule i have had since forever.

also, i have no friends in real life. after college and the cutting incident i decided the only way i could survive was to just not have any sort of social life. i go to work and run errands. other than that i have no contact with real people in the outside world. why do you think i spend so much time here? :p

my only friend is my mom. :( seriously.

there i go oversharing again, but i felt i needed to say that so you did not feel slighted by someone as pathetic as me not venturing out of my hole to meet you.

now that we have settled all that, we can go back to being internet friends. yay! :laugh:




Edited By rolotomasi99 on 1222893092
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Post by rolotomasi99 »

OscarGuy wrote:To those of us who love the film, and being the first Best Picture winner I ever rooted for (subsequently the first Oscars I ever remember watching), it was always more than just a story set during the Civil Rights movement. I think it portrays well the sentiment in a lot of regions of the country during the period even if it's not a popular sentiment. But, first and foremost, this is about two people from opposing ethnic and social backgrounds who had more in common than they had differences.

And my problem with anyone comparing it negatively about a subjugation story-wise of the blacks needs look no further than the scene where the Jewish Temple is bombed. It was a segment that showed that while blacks were going through a rather turbulent time of their own, Jews were facing the same type of discrimination. There was no "rescue" of a white woman by the magical ideals of the black man. Whatever idealism is embodied within Hoke is also within Daisy, if only she had the power to recognize it and embrace it. Yes, Hoke gives her that friendship and courage to accept those things, but as much as he's there as a catalyst for the change, so too are the events surrounding them.
alright, i am not trying to trash the film.

i do *not* think DRIVING MISS DAISY = CRUISING. i do think DRIVING MISS DAISY = PHILADELPHIA. well meaning but ultimately too mainstream and somewhat patronizing to be artistically and dramatically effective.

i will admit i have not seen the film in a very long time (and this discussion makes me want to see it again), but as i remember hoake is pretty perfect. while miss daisy is depicted as being a (slight) racist, hoake is just a very patient and kind hearted man who changes miss daisy for the better by being the nicest black person she has ever met.

the reason i labeled it a magical negro film is because i thought the whole point of the movie was to show white audiences how bad racism was. miss daisy -- a racist who is ultimately a good person who realizes her prejudices are unfounded -- as a surrogate for the audience to learn their lesson about why we must not beprejudice. her being jewish is just used to illustrate how bigotry is bad and can affect us all.
all i remember about hoake is that he wins miss daisy over by being a good employ, being an honest person, and being a good friend. just by the sheer magical powers of being a "perfect" person does he finally convince her to treat everyone with respect.
what does miss daisy offer hoake? how does she make him a better person? i did not see the relationship as a two way street dramatically speaking. she is allowed to change as a person, but he just goes on being perfect. she gives him friendship, but he makes her a better human being.

again, i want to emphasize how long ago i saw this movie. it is very possible there were scenes of him being flawed and changing for the better that i am just not remembering. like i said, i really do want to see it again after discussing it here.
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Post by flipp525 »

You're right, rolo. I skimmed through your posts and obviously missed some salient details. I apologize. Let's just move on.

Maybe this all stems from the unresolved angst I feel from the fact that we live in the same neighborhood, yet you won't meet me for a drink. And all this cock-slapping talk is making me fell, well, even more angst-y :p.




Edited By flipp525 on 1222891081
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