The Reader

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rolotomasi99
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Postby rolotomasi99 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:49 am

Penelope wrote:I've read both books and, to me, her characters are incontrovertably Lead characters. No if's, and's or but's about it.

hear that harvey? penelope just layed down the law! :D

i have no reason to disagree with you penelope, but i am left wondering if you think it is an insult to see winslet nominated in the supporting category. i know you think it is inaccurate (and i agree with the principle of your argument), but is it somehow demeaning? i think it will be far more impressive to see winslet have a double nomination, and see her have seven acting nominations before the age of 34.

i know many do not like the politics of the whole process, but until they do away with the lead and supporting distinction we will continue to have this situation (and argument) year after year.

nicole kidman was considered lead while julianne moore was considered supporting in THE HOURS, despite their characters having equal screentime and importance (not to mention the myriad other examples which have already been given). this allowed moore to have a double nomination that year. may have not made sense, but it made me happy. that is how i feel about the winslet situation.
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Postby kaytodd » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:33 pm

ITALIANO wrote:And as far as I know, for decades now it's not allowed for any performer to be nominated twice in the same category in the same year.

I was not aware AMPAS had that rule. Then that settled it: one of the studios was going to promote Kate for supporting. No way was one going to risk the certain Oscar nom coming Kate's way. Sounds like the studio releasing The Reader decided to be the one.

I had read in the imdb discussion board that Kate herself had the opportunity to nix the idea of being promoted for supporting in either of the films. The poster wrote (I have no idea where he got his information) that Kate was not particularly concerned about the whole issue. She essentially told the studios that that was their department. I would be surprised if Kate took such a cavalier attitude about this. She and her husband have been major players in the film business for a long time. I would not be surprised if they both love the idea of her having two acting nominations the same year. And they both know what an achievement that would be for any actor. And I am sure her hubby would be especially unhappy if the Actors Branch decided to give Kate a nom for Hannah instead of April.

I am looking forward to both films.
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Postby Penelope » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:24 pm

I've read both books and, to me, her characters are incontrovertably Lead characters. No if's, and's or but's about it.
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Postby flipp525 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:15 pm

ITALIANO wrote:
kaytodd wrote:Does anyone who has read RR or its screenplay or attended a screening think April can be supporting?

Why should she be supporting in Revolutionary Road?

She shouldn't. That's exactly what kaytodd's whole post was arguing. The actions/decisions of April Wheeler drive most of the plot of Revolutionary Road. There is no conceivable way she could be construed as being a supporting character.




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Postby ITALIANO » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:07 pm

kaytodd wrote:Does anyone who has read RR or its screenplay or attended a screening think April can be supporting?

Why should she be supporting in Revolutionary Road?

And as far as I know, for decades now it's not allowed for any performer to be nominated twice in the same category in the same year.

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Postby kaytodd » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:43 pm

Penelope wrote:
rolotomasi99 wrote:i am confused, though. if winslet is truly being put in the supporting category, and you are saying fiennes is not on enough to be nominated for lead dreamaker...who the heck is the lead in this movie?

i want to avoid spoilers, but i thought the movie was told from the point of view of fiennes' character, michael. i guess young michael is the central character, played by david cross. given the academy's low tolerance for young actors nominated in lead, i am assuming he will not be nominated.

As I indicated below, both Hanna and Michael are the story's lead characters, even though Michael is the narrator. But Michael's story is evenly split between half of the story when he is a teenager (David Kross) and half when he is an adult (Ralph Fiennes)...thus, Kate Winslet becomes the only possible Lead contender for the film since she would appear all the way through the film. To place her in Supporting, when neither the construction of the story nor the running time of her appearance in the film could even conceivably support it, is utterly and flatly ridiculous.

I agree with you totally, Pen, about how Kate should be lead for The Reader and that demoting her to supporting was done for inappropriate reasons. IMO, the reason is that there is no way the studios who are releasing The Reader and Revolutionary Road are going to let her compete against herself in the lead category. They want her nominated for both roles. And in the unlikely event she gets nominated for lead for both films, they do not want vote splitting to endanger her chances of winning.

Between the two characters (at least as presented in the novels), I think Hannah in The Reader is far more appropriate for consideration in the supporting category than April in RR. April Wheeler is the engine that drives the entire story in RR. No way is she a supporting character even to Dicaprio's Frank Wheeler.

It can at least be argued that The Reader is Michael's story rather than Hannah's. Michael goes through a lot of changes during the film. He meets Hannah when he is a teenager and has the affair with her. She then disappears from the story for several years and Michael goes on with his life. They cross paths again when Michael is a young adult at which time he learns something about her that changes how he sees her and their relationship. Even though Michael is played by two actors, his character and the changes he goes through are the heart of the story of The Reader. Similarly, April's obsessions and neuroses and the impact they have on her family and friends are the heart of RR.

It's not a perfect argument for making Hannah a supporting character in The Reader but at least the argument is there. I can think of no argument for making April a supporting character in RR. Of course, I may feel different after seeing the films but that would mean the screenplay for at least one of the films departed dramatically from the novel. Does anyone who has read RR or its screenplay or attended a screening think April can be supporting?
The great thing in the world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving. It's faith in something and enthusiasm for something that makes a life worth living. Oliver Wendell Holmes

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Postby dreaMaker » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:50 pm

FilmFan720 wrote:What about Bruno Ganz for supporting actor? I don't know the novel, or what his role is, but he seems like one of those well-respected foreign actors who can finally creep into a weak field to get a nomination.

Bruno can't be nominated, his role is really small.
he plays a college professor . . .

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Postby dreaMaker » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:48 pm

Penelope wrote:
rolotomasi99 wrote:i am confused, though. if winslet is truly being put in the supporting category, and you are saying fiennes is not on enough to be nominated for lead dreamaker...who the heck is the lead in this movie?

i want to avoid spoilers, but i thought the movie was told from the point of view of fiennes' character, michael. i guess young michael is the central character, played by david cross. given the academy's low tolerance for young actors nominated in lead, i am assuming he will not be nominated.

As I indicated below, both Hanna and Michael are the story's lead characters, even though Michael is the narrator. But Michael's story is evenly split between half of the story when he is a teenager (David Kross) and half when he is an adult (Ralph Fiennes)...thus, Kate Winslet becomes the only possible Lead contender for the film since she would appear all the way through the film. To place her in Supporting, when neither the construction of the story nor the running time of her appearance in the film could even conceivably support it, is utterly and flatly ridiculous.

I completely agree...
Kate was given the supporting actress mark only because of some political reasons...

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Postby Penelope » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:35 pm

rolotomasi99 wrote:i am confused, though. if winslet is truly being put in the supporting category, and you are saying fiennes is not on enough to be nominated for lead dreamaker...who the heck is the lead in this movie?

i want to avoid spoilers, but i thought the movie was told from the point of view of fiennes' character, michael. i guess young michael is the central character, played by david cross. given the academy's low tolerance for young actors nominated in lead, i am assuming he will not be nominated.

As I indicated below, both Hanna and Michael are the story's lead characters, even though Michael is the narrator. But Michael's story is evenly split between half of the story when he is a teenager (David Kross) and half when he is an adult (Ralph Fiennes)...thus, Kate Winslet becomes the only possible Lead contender for the film since she would appear all the way through the film. To place her in Supporting, when neither the construction of the story nor the running time of her appearance in the film could even conceivably support it, is utterly and flatly ridiculous.
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston



"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster

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Postby FilmFan720 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:26 am

rolo, I believe it is David Kross...although I would love to see an Oscar nod for David Cross!

What about Bruno Ganz for supporting actor? I don't know the novel, or what his role is, but he seems like one of those well-respected foreign actors who can finally creep into a weak field to get a nomination.
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Postby rolotomasi99 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:04 am

i have had THE READER nominated for make-up for some time now. i saw a picture of winslet in the "old" make up online somewhere and she looked amazing. silly of me to leave it out of my post.

i am confused, though. if winslet is truly being put in the supporting category, and you are saying fiennes is not on enough to be nominated for lead dreamaker...who the heck is the lead in this movie?

i want to avoid spoilers, but i thought the movie was told from the point of view of fiennes' character, michael. i guess young michael is the central character, played by david cross. given the academy's low tolerance for young actors nominated in lead, i am assuming he will not be nominated.
"When it comes to the subject of torture, I trust a woman who was married to James Cameron for three years."
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Postby dreaMaker » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:12 am

Oh, please, don't forget the makeup!!!

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Postby dreaMaker » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:09 am

rolotomasi99 wrote:
dreaMaker wrote:The film is still in the editing room, but the latest version i ve seen is a masterpiece... Without any doubt...

well, based on that alone i am removing CHANGELING from best picture and all other categories except actress, and THE READER is going in its place.

best picture
supporting actress
director
screenplay
set
costume
score

lead actor and editing are also possibilities.

Yes, editing could very easily be nominated, Academy loves jumping from one period to another in movies... And Claire Simpson is in the game, so... :)

However, Fiennes can't be nominated as a Leading actor here, his role is not that big... I could see him as a supporting one..

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Postby dreaMaker » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:06 am

Sabin wrote:I want to hear far more from dreaMaker.

Just ask . . . :)

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Postby ITALIANO » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:23 am

True, we should see the movie before deciding if Winslet's performance belongs to leading or supporting, but honestly, unless seriously big mistakes have been made in translating the novel into film, her role should be at least a colead (especially if flashbacks are included) from the "amount of time" point of view, and, even more importantly, definitely a lead from the emotional point of view (what I guess I am trying to say is, for the movie to be successful, she SHOULD be perceived as a lead, no doubts about that).

I'm glad to know that the movie is a masterpiece. In my opinion, the novel isn't, though I must admit that it's very interesting, especially if one sees it as a metaphor of the German people wrestling with its terrible past (this is why I wasnt, and still am not, sure that a non German director, or at least THIS non German director, could do justice to the complicated issues that the book, not always openly, presents). But it is, of course, a potentially unforgettable, challenging role for an actress, and could be a personal triumph for Winslet.


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