The Dark Knight

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Zahveed
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Postby Zahveed » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:32 pm

Holy crap, do you have to argue about Amy Ryan again? Can we bring back the Sweeney Todd thread too while we're at it?
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Postby OscarGuy » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:03 pm

Oh, yes! My site is the epitome of "does he want it to" checking for Oscar voters. They read what I write and then vote accordingly just to fuck with me.

I wasn't protesting her nomination or her award (until I saw it and realized it wasn't really worth the attention), I just thought you guys were lumping your eggs in one basket for her too early...and perhaps your over exuberance for her performance and the constant early talk and buzz helped diminish people's appreciation of her work and caused her to sink. It certainly wasn't my one voice urging caution, but I'd bet it had more to do with the the constant flogging of her name by so many people so early on.

If they don't handle it correctly, this will backfire and not only will he not win, he won't get nominated.

And I'm speaking as someone who HAS seen Heath Ledger's work and think he was an amazing talent and have very high hopes for his performance as the Joker (many of my friends were reticent to see him playing the role, but I didn't have those kinds of reservations...I was apprehensive at first, but after I considered his past work, I embraced it). And I'm one of those that think he should have won Best Actor in his year. So, I come at Ledger's potential from a different perspective than Amy Ryan's.

My thoughts on Amy Ryan came as an outside observer. If I do like his performance or even love it, I'm going to be very cautious and optimistic about flogging him or pushing him for recognition, simply because too much of a good thing (hype for Dreamgirls anyone?) can sink an otherwise stellar opportunity.
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Postby flipp525 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:47 am

I think your sight unseen protestations against an Amy Ryan nomination last year actually helped propel her to one (as well as the lionshare of critical support), so fire away!
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Postby OscarGuy » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:30 am

You say she was very close because you were championing her for a win. My entire point was pushing Ledger like this sounds just like the push for Amy Ryan last year. We cannot say anything will happen for sure until it happens and especially when we don't know who his competition will be for that nomination.
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Postby flipp525 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:03 am

OscarGuy wrote:Or, how about Amy Ryan?

If The Changeling is as good as early reviews say it is and her performance is powerful enough, she could most definitely get in. She was very close to winning for Gone Baby Gone.
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Postby kaytodd » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:58 am

rudeboy wrote:
jack wrote:The question is: if Ledger hadn't died, would this Oscar hysteria be happening? Clearly we'll never know, but it's still worth thinking about.

No. I can't see this as the sort of role which, in normal circumstances, would lead to the Oscars. Even out and out raves would simply point to a future win for a more typical awards-friendly role.

I cannot agree. Had Heath not died, I still think this performance would have gotten a lot of attention and praise and that it would have had a good chance at a Supporting Oscar nom.

I was really impressed with Heath when the trailer came out a couple of months ago. The snippets on the trailer indicated to me Heath had done something very interesting with the Joker character. He kept the evil fun, humor and playfulness of Cesar Romero and Jack Nicholson (both of whom were wonderful Jokers). But his grungy dress, sloppy makeup (the makeup looked to me like a stroke of genius for which I'll bet Heath was primarily responsible) and the air of desperation made this Joker appear much more over the edge than the rather dapper ones Jack and Cesar delighted us with. The trailer made me want to see Heath's performance very much.

The reviews tell me my predictions about Heath's performance were correct. More importantly for Heath's Oscar chances, I will not be disappointed in the film. If Heath were still with us, and the film itself was quality work that made a lot of money, he would have had a good chance at a Supporting nom. But I think the Oscar itself would have gone to a more traditional performance and film.
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Postby OscarGuy » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:58 am

Or, how about Amy Ryan?
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Postby rolotomasi99 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:33 am

flipp525 wrote:There will be no backlash. He'll be nominated (in support) and will have a good chance of winning. Not only will it be the chance to recognize a performance that has already entered film canon, but it's also the last chance to honor an actor who many believed was a throw-back to the old school performers of Brando, Dean and other method actors.

Also, I think the Academy has opened itself up to recognizing different kinds of performances lately. Nominating a "comic book performance" seems no more outlandish to me than recognizing Jennifer Hudson's one belting hit in Dreamgirls, Cate Blanchett's gender-bender in I'm Not There or William Hurt's cameo in A History of Violence (not to mention such precedent-setting nods as Al Pacino in Dick Tracy). If Ledger has truly committed an iconic performance to celluloid as early reviews suggest, there's no reason to believe it won't stand up through nomination season.

In addition, I think there are several people who think that he deserved to win the Oscar back in 2005 over Philip Seymour Hoffman and we all know how that sentiment can carry actors to follow-up nods/wins.

well, i guess that settles that then. we can now cross supporting actor of our predictions list since ledger has it all sewn up. ???

i am just waiting for tom o'neil to declare ledger the winner (like he did with DREAMGIRLS and SWEENEY TODD). that will pretty much end any chance of him winning.
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Postby flipp525 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:48 am

There will be no backlash. He'll be nominated (in support) and will have a good chance of winning. Not only will it be the chance to recognize a performance that has already entered film canon, but it's also the last chance to honor an actor who many believed was a throw-back to the old school performers of Brando, Dean and other method actors.

Also, I think the Academy has opened itself up to recognizing different kinds of performances lately. Nominating a "comic book performance" seems no more outlandish to me than recognizing Jennifer Hudson's one belting hit in Dreamgirls, Cate Blanchett's gender-bender in I'm Not There or William Hurt's cameo in A History of Violence (not to mention such precedent-setting nods as Al Pacino in Dick Tracy). If Ledger has truly committed an iconic performance to celluloid as early reviews suggest, there's no reason to believe it won't stand up through nomination season.

In addition, I think there are several people who think that he deserved to win the Oscar back in 2005 over Philip Seymour Hoffman and we all know how that sentiment can carry actors to follow-up nods/wins.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."



-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell

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Postby rolotomasi99 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:12 am

this is just starting to get annoying. on cnn.com one of the main headlines is about whether ledger will get an oscar. it is not in the entertainment section, but right there with all the major news of the day, next to the colombian hostages being freed and mccain shaking up his campaign staff.

i would love to see him nominated if the performance is worthy, but even i am starting to feel a backlash against this oscar hysteria.




Edited By rolotomasi99 on 1215098586
"When it comes to the subject of torture, I trust a woman who was married to James Cameron for three years."
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Postby rudeboy » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:29 am

jack wrote:The question is: if Ledger hadn't died, would this Oscar hysteria be happening? Clearly we'll never know, but it's still worth thinking about.

No. I can't see this as the sort of role which, in normal circumstances, would lead to the Oscars. Even out and out raves would simply point to a future win for a more typical awards-friendly role.

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Postby Okri » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:37 pm

The Original BJ wrote:
Mister Tee wrote:Let me confess something that makes me queasy about this: the fact that so many people began touting Ledger for an Oscar within hours/days of his death.

I completely agree with this statement. "Maybe he'll win an Oscar for Dark Knight" was something that NEVER crossed my mind until I kept reading it everywhere.

Also, I have to confess I'm surprised at how beloved Ledger seems to be by the Hollywood/critical establishment. I loved his performance in Brokeback Mountain and thought him a very promising actor, but this "Ledger MUST win Oscar" movement has caught me completely off guard. Is it the tragic death alone that has lionized him...or am I missing something?

All of that being said, I guess there's some Oscar precedent with Pacino in Dick Tracy, though dear lord I hope Ledger's performance is MUCH better...

Can I get a ditto on that?

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Postby Zahveed » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:07 pm

jack wrote:The question is: if Ledger hadn't died, would this Oscar hysteria be happening? Clearly we'll never know, but it's still worth thinking about.

Maybe a globe...
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Postby jack » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:06 pm

The question is: if Ledger hadn't died, would this Oscar hysteria be happening? Clearly we'll never know, but it's still worth thinking about.

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Postby Zahveed » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:29 pm

From my understanding, the early word on Ledger's deserving an oscar was a result of both his death and the cast and crew's comments about how insane and frightening he was during filming. I don't doubt the critic's have heard at least one or two interviews last year regarding Ledger's performance and soon took it upon themselves to assume the rumors could be true - Ledger could be outstanding. They ran with it, saying that it's possible he could get a nom if it really is that good. Now that the press has seen TDK it seems to be nearly unanimous. It could be the real thing or they could all be caught in the moment. Who knows? We'll just have to find out in two weeks.
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