Scorsese and DiCaprio return to Boston

Big Magilla
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Post by Big Magilla »

I have no problem with the depiciton of feminism or any other topic per se, I just don't like to be hit over the head with it. I do think The Piano was Campion's most accomplished film, and both Holly Hunter and Anna Paquin were amazing even if it was at the expense of the under-developed male characers in the film.

Hard Candy is an example of a femisist film that I actually liked - didn't enjoy, but liked - the femisism in that being so over the top it was impossible to take seriously.

1993 was a year of major disappointments, so much so that I still consider The Piano, reservations and all, to be the year's second best film behind Schindler's List.

Speaking of Groundhog Day, imagine having to repeat the year 1993 over and over again. I'd go nuts!
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Post by Johnny Guitar »

Big Magilla wrote:Ah, yes, he didn't break any, he just cut one off, that's so much more genteel, right?


It was a matter of technicality, that's all. It should be obvious I wasn't trying to say one was more excusable than the other.

Big Magilla wrote:I don't get the Baise-Moi reference. Women killing men in modern society is quite different from patriarchal men maiming straying wives in 1850s backwater New Zealand. I just found it to be more heavy handed than it needed to be, sort of like the snarling villains in old time melodramas, no different than Billy Zane in Titanic for example, though Neill is, of course, a better actor than Zane.


My point was to suggest that if The Piano's "feminist man-bashing" (a major overreaction & mischaracterization if you ask me) makes you squirm, you should not watch Baise-moi, which is a semi-random example of a much more polemical exercise than The Piano (both with a feminist groundwork), and much more violent and schematic, and hence, much more "heavy-handedly man-bashing"--or it would seem this way to those who interpret assertive feminism as an attack on men.

A comparison between the fictional representations in each film is irrelevant.
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Post by Sabin »

I love 'An Angel at My Table' and 'Sweetie', but I must confess that re: the '93 Oscar smack-down, some days I think just back fondly on 'Groundhog's Day'.
There is a lot to like about The Piano, but I think its feminist man-bashing goes a bit too far when Sam Neill breaks Holly Hunter's fingers.

If anything, isn't 'The Piano' guilty of being an anti-feminist tale? Ada's true betrayer is her daughter. I really don't see it as male-bashing at all. Sam Neil is a virginal victim. I have not seen 'The Piano' in some time so I can't attest to its staying power, but I'm not sure its ideology is rooted in man-bashing.
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Big Magilla
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Post by Big Magilla »

Johnny Guitar wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:There is a lot to like about The Piano, but I think its feminist man-bashing goes a bit too far when Sam Neill breaks Holly Hunter's fingers.

'Feminist man-bashing'? There's nothing particularly man-bashing about making a story that acknowledges a patriarchal society, and indicates that some men lord over and mistreat women, is there? Don't ever watch Baise-moi, Magilla!

(Also, it's been awhile since I've seen The Piano, but Neill never actually breaks any fingers--he just cuts off the one, right?)
Ah, yes, he didn't break any, he just cut one off, that's so much more genteel, right?

I don't get the Baise-Moi reference. Women killing men in modern society is quite different from patriarchal men maiming straying wives in 1850s backwater New Zealand. I just found it to be more heavy handed than it needed to be, sort of like the snarling villains in old time melodramas, no different than Billy Zane in Titanic for example, though Neill is, of course, a better actor than Zane.

I find Jane Campion to be one of the most over-rated directors of all time. Not just one of the most over-rated female directors, or the most over-rated Austalian directors, or one of the most orver-rated modern director, but one of the most-overrated directors of any sex, nationality or whatever other label you want to put on her. An Angel at My Table is ultimately moving takes too long to get going, Portrait of a Lady has a couple of good supporting performances but is not particulary compelling. Holy Smoke, though, is a worse ordeal to sit through than a two hour dental procedure and In the Cut is a worse nightmare than watching your dentist and his assistant murdered in the middle of a two hour dental procedure that you are forced to endure while the novacine wears off and you have to seek medical help after the police finally show up.

On the other hand, I had no problem with seeing Keitel nude in The Piano. That sight was certainly preferable than the sight of him nude in Bad Lieutenant.
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Post by Akash »

Oh good grief! I'll make this quick.

1) No one cared about Harvey Keitel's naked bits and the film doesn't man bash any more than most films marginalize and essentialize their female characters.

2) I really don't see how anyone can say Speilberg's film was a competent adaptation of Walker's novel. Like at all. And I'm of the camp that feels a film doesn't have to be slavishly faithful to the source material at all, so that's not even the reason I find it lousy. It's easy, fake, maudlin. Goldberg and Avery's tender scenes are the best things in it. Even I liked "Miss Celie's Blues" but the rest is forgettable.

3) Huston was divine and one of their best choices.

4) Have we coaxed Eric into a nude scene?

5) Oprah Winfrey is a butt nugget.




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Post by OscarGuy »

See, quite on the contrary, Penelope, I found the pink-coated little girl's scenes mesmerizingly poignant. The devastating resolution to that one scene stayed with me for a long time after watching. I thought it was a brazen decision that worked terrifically. Perhaps the best single scene in the entire film and that's amongst a number of wonderfully affecting and effective segments.
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Post by Eric »

Touche.
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Post by Greg »

Look who's talking. :p
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Post by Eric »

OscarGuy wrote:I do think the film is terrific, but I shudder when I think of Keitel nekkid...almost as much as Kathy Bates in About Schmidt.
Jeez, let's see your nude scene.
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Post by flipp525 »

Uri wrote:Winfrey was the standout in the cast of The Color Purple (quite an easy task, if you ask me, but she indeed was surprisingly good), but Huston was so brilliant and sharp and above all stylish in so many ways – for once the academy got it right, don’t bother with it.
You’re right, Uri, Anjelica Huston is fantastic in Prizzi’s Honor and more than deserved to win that year. I just preferred Oprah’s performance a bit more. There was something unfettered and organic about it that I found very real. The book really changed Winfrey’s life when it first came out and I think she poured a lot of herself into that role in a way another actress might not have.

What was Amy Madigan doing in that lineup for Twice in a Lifetime? What a forgettable performance and a truly awful movie. I love Madigan but, really, what was that about?
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Post by Penelope »

Oh, no, it has nothing whatsoever to do with seeing Harvey Keitel naked; instead, it has to do with precisely what Johnny says--for the first time, a truly feminist--yet humane--vision was presented on film, and brilliantly so, too. I know that it is a film that has deeply affected many women who have seen it--my mother, for example, who usually is willing to talk about a film after we see it, was so overwhelmed that all she could talk about was how it felt like, for the first time, she was seeing her story in a film, how her experiences were being brought to the surface by what she saw. It had never happened before and hasn't happened since.

Schindler's List has some strong moments in it--and some terrific acting, especially Ralph Fiennes--but it also has some unfortunately hacky moments in it: the little girl wandering through the ghetto while the nasty Nazis do their thing is one of the most embarrassingly silly moments in movie history.
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Post by OscarGuy »

I think the love from others on the board for The Piano comes from seeing Harvey Keitel naked.

I do think the film is terrific, but I shudder when I think of Keitel nekkid...almost as much as Kathy Bates in About Schmidt.
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Post by Uri »

flipp525 wrote:Oprah Winfrey (who should've won against Huston),
After all we’ve been through together on this thread, you stub me right in the heart. But I know your day will come, since no one mess with Maerose Prizzi without paying for it dearly.

Winfrey was the standout in the cast of The Color Purple (quite an easy task, if you ask me, but she indeed was surprisingly good), but Huston was so brilliant and sharp and above all stylish in so many ways – for once the academy got it right, don’t bother with it.

As for The Piano’s 'Feminist man-bashing' – Johnny got it perfectly right. Furthermore, I’d say that the way Campion depicted Keitel’s character is so compassionate and generous this accusation seems out of place. But maybe the fact that here was a very rare case of having a truly feminine (and indeed feminist) observation of male behaviors (and bodies), that many people found it threatening.
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Post by Johnny Guitar »

Big Magilla wrote:There is a lot to like about The Piano, but I think its feminist man-bashing goes a bit too far when Sam Neill breaks Holly Hunter's fingers.
'Feminist man-bashing'? There's nothing particularly man-bashing about making a story that acknowledges a patriarchal society, and indicates that some men lord over and mistreat women, is there? Don't ever watch Baise-moi, Magilla!

(Also, it's been awhile since I've seen The Piano, but Neill never actually breaks any fingers--he just cuts off the one, right?)
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Post by flipp525 »

Big Magilla wrote:I've never gotten The Color Purple bashing. If you want to see silly and embarassing watch the sugary Oprah Winfrey produced musical version.
I'd also like to come out of the closet in support of The Color Purple. I think it's a competent adaptation of Walker's epistolary novel, anchored by an auspicious debut from Whoppi Goldberg and a strong supporting cast including Oprah Winfrey (who should've won against Huston), Margaret "God Wants me to have an Oscar" Avery and Danny Glover. Its faults -- an over-reliance on sentimentality & an unwillingness to truly explore female sexuality and homosexuality -- are far outweighed by powerful performances and good art direction. For its time, it was a fair and reasonable accomplishment. Avery's performance of "Miss Celie's Blues (Sister)" is one of my favorite film moments due, in most part, to Goldberg's girlish infatuation and joy which shines through the scene like a beacon in that drafty, riverfront bar.
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