New Developments III

Big Magilla
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Post by Big Magilla »

The whole thing is confusing.

A public option is not a panacea, but it does seem like the surest way to force insurance companies to cut costs. If there is a viable alternative, fine, but no one has come up with one. But how exactly would the public option be structured? Hopefully better than Medicare. The key, aside from eliminating greed, which is impossible to legislate, is for both private and public health care to cut back on the paperwork that accounts for most of the overhead.

What is most perplexing to me is the opposition of "seniors", a ridiculous grouping of people aged 65 and over. That grouping may have made sense in the 1930s when people tended to not live much longer than their 65th birthday but with modern medicine keeping large numbers of people alive well into their 80s and 90s there is a big difference between those in the 65-74 range, those in the 75-84 range and those who are older both in the way they think and the medical coverage they require.

Catastrophic illness can strike at any age, but is more likely the older you get. You can retire early as I did and pay reasonable insurance rates until you turn 65 but once you reach that milestone you are put in an insurance pool with everyone that age and beyond. Your insurance doubles overnight.

Medicare costs a base rate of $94 per month deducted from your Social Security check, but for every dollar you earn over a certain amount from other sources based on your tax return of two years earlier, your cost for Medicare increases. Medicare's benefits are limited. I don't know anyone who can survive on Medicare alone. You have to have a supplemental insurance plan to cover Medicare's cost prohibitive deductibles. Those plans aren't cheap. Yet a large percentage of "seniors" want to maintain the status quo. My guess is if they were to breakdown the "senior" polling by the age groups I mentioned you would find most of the opposition is from those over 75, maybe even 85.
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Post by taki15 »

Heksagon wrote:
taki15 wrote:I'm really confused with the Health Care debate. Besides all the nonsense spewed around by the usual suspects, I was intrigued by an article by Joe Klein.
Is this article available online? Klein writes for Time, right?
Klein's Article.

Apparently his commenters too are unable to verify or refute Klein's assesment, they just resort to name-calling and general bashing.
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Post by Heksagon »

taki15 wrote:I'm really confused with the Health Care debate. Besides all the nonsense spewed around by the usual suspects, I was intrigued by an article by Joe Klein.
Is this article available online? Klein writes for Time, right?
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Post by Greg »

White House Adviser on ‘Green Jobs’ Resigns
By SARAH WHEATON
Published: September 6, 2009

In a victory for Republicans and the Obama administration’s conservative critics, Van Jones resigned as the White House’s environmental jobs “czar” on Saturday.

Controversy over Mr. Jones’s past comments and affiliations has slowly escalated over several weeks, erupting on Friday with calls for his resignation.

Appointed as a special adviser for “green jobs” by President Obama, Mr. Jones did not go through the traditional vetting process for administration officials who must be confirmed by the Senate. So it was not until recently that some of Mr. Jones’s past actions received broad airing, including his derogatory statements about Republicans in February and his signature on a 2004 letter suggesting that former President George W. Bush might have knowingly allowed the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to occur in order to use them as a “pre-text to war.”

Mr. Jones’s involvement in the 1990s with a group called Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement prompted recent accusations by conservative critics that he associated with Communists. The group, according to a post-mortem written by some of its founders, was an anti-capitalist, antiwar organization committed to achieving “solidarity among all oppressed peoples” with “direct militant action.”

Republican blogs and conservative talk show hosts, notably Glenn Beck of Fox News Channel, seized upon Mr. Jones’s statements and associations. Mr. Jones apologized on Wednesday for derogatory words he directed at Republican opponents of Mr. Obama’s Congressional agenda during a lecture in February, calling his remarks “inappropriate” and noting that they were made before he joined the administration. Mr. Jones has also said in the past that the Sept. 11 petition did not reflect his views.

“I cannot in good conscience ask my colleagues to expend precious time and energy defending or explaining my past,” Mr. Jones said in a statement announcing his resignation that was released early Sunday morning. That message was followed by another from Nancy Sutley, chairwoman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, affirming that she had accepted his resignation.

On Friday, Representative Mike Pence of Indiana, chairman of the House Republican conference, called on Mr. Jones to resign, and Senator Christopher S. Bond of Missouri called for a hearing on Mr. Jones’s appointment. Mr. Obama has appointed more than two dozen special advisers who are not subject to the confirmation process.

Prior to joining the Obama administration in 2009, Mr. Jones wrote the book “The Green Collar Economy” and co-founded several nonprofit organizations, including the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights and Green for All.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009...._r=1&hp
Big Magilla
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Post by Big Magilla »

Obama didn't blow it yet, but he's certainly on the verge of it.

It's fine to be a pragmatist, to listen to all sides, be willing to bend without compromising your principles, emphasis on the latter, but there has to be a point where enough is enough. How much more being made a fool of by the rabid Republicans can he take before he develops a public spine? If he doesn't come across a little like Harry Truman in Wednesday night's speech it won't just be all over for viable health reform, it will be all over for Obama. Hillary may take her time but eventually she will resign as Secretary of State and announce her intention to run against him in the 2012 primaries, which is just about the only thing that will give the Democrats hope if this fails.
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Post by Sonic Youth »

Mister Tee wrote:Based once again on anonymous quotes from the same journalists. It may turn out to be the case, but call me cautious -- I wait till something actually happens before I comment on it.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. a). I didn't post any article just now, and b). the article I posted a few weeks ago didn't contain a single anonymous quote. I based this on my observation of un-anonymous statements - made by Sibelius, Axelrod, Conrad, Obama himself ("trigger" indeed) - and by generally watching the developments of this travesty unfold. If the Democrats do somehow manage to squeak the public option into their bill, it will be no thanks to Obama, who really blew this.

I don't suppose you waited to see if Bush's statement "I haven't decided yet to go to war with Iraq or not" would pan out before coming to the a-blind-man-could-see-it conclusion that we were invading anyway.




Edited By Sonic Youth on 1252248709
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Post by Mister Tee »

Sonic Youth wrote:
Mister Tee wrote:
Sonic Youth wrote: Oh, I disagree. I think the term for what's going on is "trial balloon".

The New York Times reported this much the same way in yesterday's paper. And I'd stay away from news blogs and other outlets to the left of them, because they'll probably be less than charitable in their read of what's going on.
The New York Times, and the rest of the press, also reported that: Hillary had exposed Obama's fatal weakness with white working class voters; Sarah Palin was going to single-handedly swing the election to McCain; Cash for Clunkers would be stopped by the Senate; and Sonia Sotomayor could never be confirmed before Fall. The Times in particular has a "Democrats in disarray" article-template they trot out periodically, of which this is the latest variant.

I do agree that portions of the lefty blogosphere are equally guilty -- Arianna leading the way -- because in their Nader-ite souls they want to be disappointed, as it will confirm their dim view of American society. They'd have screamed at the compromises FDR made to get Social Security through.
It's sure looking more and more like they got this one right, doesn't it?
Based once again on anonymous quotes from the same journalists. It may turn out to be the case, but call me cautious -- I wait till something actually happens before I comment on it.
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Post by taki15 »

I'm really confused with the Health Care debate. Besides all the nonsense spewed around by the usual suspects, I was intrigued by an article by Joe Klein.
He mentioned there that the whole Public Option issue is blown way out of proportion and that the really crucial part of the reform are the so-called Health Care Exchanges. He went on to say that smart conservatives are most worried about them because they have the potential to evolve into a single payer system in time.

Now, i there anyone here to enlighten me if this is true or just another DC blowhard not knowing what he is talking about?
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Sonic Youth
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Post by Sonic Youth »

Mister Tee wrote:
Sonic Youth wrote:
Mister Tee wrote:I wouldn't take the interpretation of anyone in the mainstream media -- especially the AP, which has been carrying GOP water since Ron Fournier took it over -- for gospel. If I hear the plan has actually been dropped, I'll be disappointed. Hearing "some people tonight SEEM to be signalling it's dropped" is worse than worthless, and exactly the sort of bad reporting that's marked all coverage of this debate.
Oh, I disagree. I think the term for what's going on is "trial balloon".

The New York Times reported this much the same way in yesterday's paper. And I'd stay away from news blogs and other outlets to the left of them, because they'll probably be less than charitable in their read of what's going on.
The New York Times, and the rest of the press, also reported that: Hillary had exposed Obama's fatal weakness with white working class voters; Sarah Palin was going to single-handedly swing the election to McCain; Cash for Clunkers would be stopped by the Senate; and Sonia Sotomayor could never be confirmed before Fall. The Times in particular has a "Democrats in disarray" article-template they trot out periodically, of which this is the latest variant.

I do agree that portions of the lefty blogosphere are equally guilty -- Arianna leading the way -- because in their Nader-ite souls they want to be disappointed, as it will confirm their dim view of American society. They'd have screamed at the compromises FDR made to get Social Security through.
It's sure looking more and more like they got this one right, doesn't it?
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Post by cam »

Biggest Non-secret ever held!

Can we go back to the medical insurance situation in the US? The amount and obviousness of untruths abound--like Canada is a Socialist country( read: bad).
Yet there are millions is Americans who believe these nonsenses-- those millions who are a little right of Attila The Hun.
These unwashed appear to believe that a socialist medical system, does not permit the government to "kill Grandma". Stem cell research should not be carried on , because there might be clones of a Bad Guy produced, on purpose, by Big Brother.

The closest I have come to observing much in the way of the Democratic-Progressives countering the Right is the Town Hall meeting of Obama's in Colorado( I think it was). And I have a lot of time to read and watch TV now.

Politics on this Board are the best way I have had for ten years in picking up what intelligent Americans, who are, with the exception of criddic and the odd dodo, Progressives, have to say. Unless I have missed it, the discussion of this topic seems to have ended.




Edited By cam on 1250983891
Damien
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Post by Damien »

Greg wrote:Ridge Claims That He Was Pressured to Elevate Threat Warning
File this under Duh.

Many people pointed out the obviousness of this during the fall of 2004.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
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Post by Greg »

Ridge Claims That He Was Pressured to Elevate Threat Warning
By Garance Franke-Ruta

Former Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge, the first director of the Department of Homeland Security, says that he was pressured by other agency heads to raise the national security-threat level on the eve of the 2004 presidential election -- a move he rejected as having political undertones.

The disclosure comes in promotional materials for Ridge's new book, due out Sept. 1, in which he writes that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Attorney General John D. Ashcroft tried to pressure him to raise the threat level.

"After that episode, I knew I had to follow through with my plans to leave the federal government for the private sector," Ridge writes in the book, "The Test of Our Times: America Under Siege ... and How We Can Be Safe Again," according to publishers Thomas Dunne Books.

He submitted his resignation within the month.

Another official in George W. Bush's administration, White House homeland security adviser Frances Fragos Townsend, told the Associated Press on Thursday that Ridge "was certainly not pressured," while a spokesman for Rumsfeld rejected Ridge's assertion.

"The story line advanced by his publisher seemingly to sell copies of the book is nonsense," Keith Urbahn said in a statement. "During the fall of 2004, Osama bin Laden and an American member of al-Qaeda released videotapes that said in no uncertain terms that al-Qaeda intended to launch more attacks against Americans. ... Given those facts, it would seem reasonable for senior administration officials to discuss the threat level."

Ridge's publicist, Joe Rinaldi, said Thursday that the former secretary was not doing interviews.

Ridge will also say in the book that his relationship with Rumsfeld had been distant, with the Pentagon chief rarely making himself available for meetings with his domestic security counterpart.

And Ridge will also reveal that he was never invited to a White House National Security Council meeting -- Condoleezza Rice was NSC director during President George W. Bush's first term -- that he was routinely "blindsided" by an information-withholding Federal Bureau of Investigation during Oval Office briefings, and that his efforts to establish regional Homeland Security offices in New Orleans and six other major cities in the years before Hurricane Katrina were thwarted by bureaucracy.

The man who oversaw America's airport screening was himself singled out for screening more than two dozen times, he will say.

Threat-level warnings became a subject of controversy in 2004 after one rise was declared just days after the Democratic National Convention that summer. The move was seen by some at the time as redirecting public attention toward an issue where Bush was stronger (terrorism) and away from questions about the war in Iraq being raised by challenger Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.).

Some of the intelligence behind the alert was ultimately revealed to be three to four years old, though newly obtained.

"We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland of Security," Ridge said at the time.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44...._w.html
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Post by OscarGuy »

Now if only people would flock from the South in general, get out of places like Texas, drop those states down in pop bringing up northern states...
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Post by Greg »

Florida loses population for the first time since World War II
By James Thorner, Times Staff Writer

The growth state is officially shrinking.

Hit by a double-whammy of the housing crash and the recession, Florida has lost population for the first time since the demobilization of hundreds of thousands of soldiers after World War II.

University of Florida demographers will report Friday that the state shed about 50,000 residents between April 2008 and April 2009. That should knock the number of Floridians down a notch from the previously reported 18.3 million.

It's the first time since 1946 that Florida has been a net population loser. Even during the Great Depression, new residents swept into the state in search of work and leisure. But the severe housing contraction, combined with the sputtering of Florida's job creation machine, has eclipsed the state's former gravitational pull.

"You've had families with kids move out when housing prices went up too high," said UF economist David Denslow. "And with construction down, immigrant workers have left.". . .

http://www.tampabay.com/news....447.ece
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Post by Greg »

Here's a video of Frank at the town hall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8
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