Osama Bin Laden Killed
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Big Magilla
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What do you know about the Italian legal system, flipp? Tell me. I'm waiting for your detailed, and for once please intelligent, analysis.
But we are talking about the US now, not about Italy. And what I'm seeing now on CNN, etc, isn't just barbaric (the reaction of the people, I mean, not the legal aspects) - it's plainly stupid. Do they really think that terrorism is finished forever now? Then I can only say: poor idiots.
In the context of history - but the problem is that most Americans don't know much about history - September 11 is a minor, very minor atrocity. This can't be said in the US, but it's a fact. Showy, admittedly, but minor. Much worse things have been committed - some, but even this can't be said in the US, by the US themselves.
This doesn't mean that the supposed responsible shouldn't be captured, judged and punished, of course. But the way it has been done - and where is his body by the way? - is objectively wrong, and stupid, even (unless they wanted to hide something). There are more effective way of fighting terrorism - the one they have chosen will ultimately prove to be a big mistake. Good for some fireworks and a night of collective relief, but studying history isn't good just for understanding the past - it's also good for understanding, and sometimes foreseeing, the future, my dear flipp.
So tell me now, flipp - what have I said so wrong in this and my other two posts? Objectively I mean. I'm waiting for your answer. Behave like a man for once.
Edited By ITALIANO on 1304347505
But we are talking about the US now, not about Italy. And what I'm seeing now on CNN, etc, isn't just barbaric (the reaction of the people, I mean, not the legal aspects) - it's plainly stupid. Do they really think that terrorism is finished forever now? Then I can only say: poor idiots.
In the context of history - but the problem is that most Americans don't know much about history - September 11 is a minor, very minor atrocity. This can't be said in the US, but it's a fact. Showy, admittedly, but minor. Much worse things have been committed - some, but even this can't be said in the US, by the US themselves.
This doesn't mean that the supposed responsible shouldn't be captured, judged and punished, of course. But the way it has been done - and where is his body by the way? - is objectively wrong, and stupid, even (unless they wanted to hide something). There are more effective way of fighting terrorism - the one they have chosen will ultimately prove to be a big mistake. Good for some fireworks and a night of collective relief, but studying history isn't good just for understanding the past - it's also good for understanding, and sometimes foreseeing, the future, my dear flipp.
So tell me now, flipp - what have I said so wrong in this and my other two posts? Objectively I mean. I'm waiting for your answer. Behave like a man for once.
Edited By ITALIANO on 1304347505
anonymous wrote:We all know Fox "News" is going to spin this into a negative for Obama.
"Did Obama put the U.S. in danger for killing Bin Laden?"
This is so true. I'm stealing it.
The celebration outside of the White House last night was an amazing moment. From someone who was actually there, it wasn't so much people dancing feverishly on the grave of a dead man, but (like Big Magilla said) a collective sigh of relief after a decade of so much fear and turmoil.
Italiano, honestly, your opinions on this matter are rather banal to me at this point. I just don't think someone who lives in a country with a legal system as, well, primitive as Italy's can really throw out words like "barbaric" in describing the U.S. with a completely straight face.
Edited By flipp525 on 1304346741
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Yes, of course, but maybe, even vaguely, he knew one thing or two about Al Qaeda and its "network", and at least one should have checked that before quickly killing him. But then of course Americans want death, they desperately want death, and a simple imprisonment wouldn't have had the "symbolic" (and, I'd add, cathartic) meaning that you refer to and that is making a whole country so happy.
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Big Magilla
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I don't think all this dancing in the streets is elation over one man's death but rather the symbolic notion that his death means closure to the events of 9/11 and renewed optimism that the troops can come home now.
There was speculation on the news that the body would be destroyed, not allowed to be buried in a grave to serve as a rallying point for more terrorists.
Al Quaida is not an organization with one man at the top but a network of individual cells, so of course the fanaticism and the terrorism will not stop. Bin Laden himself had been out of the loop and apparently living in luxury in his walled compound in Pakistan for the last six years.
There was speculation on the news that the body would be destroyed, not allowed to be buried in a grave to serve as a rallying point for more terrorists.
Al Quaida is not an organization with one man at the top but a network of individual cells, so of course the fanaticism and the terrorism will not stop. Bin Laden himself had been out of the loop and apparently living in luxury in his walled compound in Pakistan for the last six years.
Ok, he's been killed. I find all this joy from Americans quite barbarian, but I'm not surprised - it's understandable, I guess, in a country where death penalty is allowed and "eye for an eye" seems to be the rule (as even movies have taught us), as it is, I'm sorry to say this but it's a fact, in most uncivilized cultures.
So I can understand - if personally not agree with - the emotional side of all this. But according to the law shouldn't he have been taken prisoner and submitted to a trial - an American or more probably international trial, as his crimes have been international? And I'm not saying this only from a moral point of view - it would have helped us to understand more about Al Qaeda and its ramifications, which still survive and will probably strike again.
Because what Americans will never understand it's that it's not about individuals - it's about ideas.
Edited By ITALIANO on 1304326906
So I can understand - if personally not agree with - the emotional side of all this. But according to the law shouldn't he have been taken prisoner and submitted to a trial - an American or more probably international trial, as his crimes have been international? And I'm not saying this only from a moral point of view - it would have helped us to understand more about Al Qaeda and its ramifications, which still survive and will probably strike again.
Because what Americans will never understand it's that it's not about individuals - it's about ideas.
Edited By ITALIANO on 1304326906
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anonymous1980
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MovieWes
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George W. Bush has released a statement:
Earlier this evening, President Obama called to inform me that American forces killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of the al Qaeda network that attacked America on September 11, 2001. I congratulated him and the men and women of our military and intelligence communities who devoted their lives to this mission. They have our everlasting gratitude. This momentous achievement marks a victory for America, for people who seek peace around the world, and for all those who lost loved ones on September 11, 2001. The fight against terror goes on, but tonight America has sent an unmistakable message: No matter how long it takes, justice will be done.
"Young men make wars and the virtues of war are the virtues of young men: courage and hope for the future. Then old men make the peace, and the vices of peace are the vices of old men: mistrust and caution." -- Alec Guinness (Lawrence of Arabia)
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Sonic Youth
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Mister Tee
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Geez, I take an hour to watch The Killing, and look what I missed.
I view this the same way I do the end of the Cold War: long-established policy led to it, but the president standing there when it happens gets a special pat on the back.
Kudos to all. A long time coming, and undeniably good news. Hardly the end of anything.
I view this the same way I do the end of the Cold War: long-established policy led to it, but the president standing there when it happens gets a special pat on the back.
Kudos to all. A long time coming, and undeniably good news. Hardly the end of anything.
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OscarGuy
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I think the credit the president deserves is that he took a different approach and restructured what was going on in that area, so while the troops (and more specifically, the intelligence-gathering operatives) deserve credit, Obama does deserve some credit.
Someone found it interesting, as do I, who commented that today is the 8th Anniversary of Bush's Mission Accomplished speech.
Someone found it interesting, as do I, who commented that today is the 8th Anniversary of Bush's Mission Accomplished speech.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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MovieWes
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I never credited Bush for capturing Saddam Hussein. He wasn't the one out there risking his life. He was real good at ordering our men and women to risk their lives, but he was never willing to risk his. That's why he joined the Texas Coast Guard during Vietnam.
"Young men make wars and the virtues of war are the virtues of young men: courage and hope for the future. Then old men make the peace, and the vices of peace are the vices of old men: mistrust and caution." -- Alec Guinness (Lawrence of Arabia)
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Sonic Youth
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