The Marriage Debate

[OscarGuy]

Another one bites the dust. And who said gays don't have clout or push?



Los Angeles Film Festival Boss Resigns

25 November 2008 11:03 PM, PST

The director of the Los Angeles Film Festival has resigned after he came under fire for donating funds in support of the California's recent ban on same-sex marriages.

Richard Raddon was heavily criticised by Hollywood heavyweights and gay-rights campaigners after it emerged he had given $1,500 (GBP1,000) to help pass the controversial Proposition 8 law.

Same-sex unions were legalised in the state in May, but the legislation was reversed early this month when the majority of voters backed the bill to reintroduce the ban.

According to reports, the festival's boardmembers refused to accept his initial resignation two weeks ago.

But Raddon, a devout Mormon, was granted his bid to resign earlier this week after he feared his actions had brought the festival, and its organisers, Film Independent, "negative attention".

He tells the Hollywood Reporter, "I have always held the belief that all people, no matter race, religion or sexual orientation, are entitled to equal rights.

"But I am profoundly sorry for the negative attention that my actions have drawn to Film Independent and for the hurt and pain that is being experienced in the Glbt community."

A representative for Film Independent says, "(Raddon) has always shown complete commitment to our core principles of equality and diversity during his long tenure. We are sorry to see him go."

[Mister Tee]

Last week, hundreds of protesters picketed El Coyote restaurant in Los Angeles because one of its managers donated $100 to the Yes on 8 campaign.

When I lived in L.A., I went to El Coyote -- a classic Mexican restaurant -- twice a week, and now when I was in Los Angeles I always went back. Never again.

I was shocked to hear about this. It's been 20 years since I was in LA, but El Coyote and the El Adobe Cafe were the two places we went for Mexican.

[OscarGuy]

I hated Chuck Norris long before I found out his political views. He's some "cool guy" in the gaming world and I detest him simply from that perspective, but what a crock of shit. I agree with his sentiment against SOME protestors, but he seems to have neglected the fact that there were plenty of Anti-Obama sentiments around the country and plenty of people doing things like tearing down Obama signs and other acts against those who supported them...vandalized cars, etc. But, as is the Republican way, it is only the side we most fear that does anything wrong. I don't agree with many of the actions the opponents of the ban have gone to, but let's not blanket everyone in that community with the label of intolerance. This letter is intended to inflame those who are opposed to the demonstrations and get them to rally behind the cause.

He also neglects to speak about the fact that there were many who were confused about the proposition and may have voted wrongly for the other decision. And he's also an idiot for thinking that the will of the majority is truly the will of the people or that there wasn't a desire to strip away rights. Chuck Norris is a fucktard and deserves to have a failed career and be the internet version of Pee Wee Herman. All the rage for a little while and then entire forgotten.

[anonymous1980]

His opinion of course doesn't matter much (if at all) but here's Chuck Norris' take on Prop. 8:

If Democracy Doesn't Work, Try Anarchy
by Chuck Norris


Protestors of Proposition 8 in California (the marriage amendment) shoved aside a 69-year-old woman who was bearing a cross. They reportedly spit on her and stomped on her cross. They then aligned themselves in a human barricade, blocking the media from getting to or interviewing the woman.

Prop. 8 supporter Jose Nunez, 37, was assaulted brutally while distributing yard signs to other supporters after church services at the St. Stanislaus Parish in Modesto.

Calvary Chapel Chino Hills was spray painted by vandals after they learned that the church served as an official collection point for Prop. 8 petitions.

Letters containing white powder (obviously mimicking anthrax) were sent to the Salt Lake City headquarters of the Mormon church and to a temple in Los Angeles. (Thankfully, the FBI said the substance was nontoxic.)

The 25-year artistic director of the California Musical Theatre, who also happens to be a Mormon, was muscled to resign because of his $1,000 donation to the campaign to ban gay marriage in California.

A pro-homosexual, pro-anarchy organization named Bash Back marched into the middle of a church service and flung fliers and condoms to the congregants. They also hung a banner from the balcony that featured two lesbians in provocative positions at the pulpit.

And lastly, the tolerance-preaching activists also have taken their anger to the blogosphere, where posts have planted ideas ranging from burning churches to storming the citadels of government until our society is forced to overturn Prop. 8. You even can find donor blacklists online. The lists include everyone who financially backed Prop. 8 -- even those who gave as little as $46 -- with the obvious objective that these individuals will be bantered and boycotted for doing so.

What's wrong with this picture? Lots.

First, there's the obvious inability of the minority to accept the will of the majority. Californians have spoken twice, through the elections in 2000 and 2008. Nearly every county across the state (including Los Angeles County) voted to amend the state constitution in favor of traditional marriage.

Nevertheless, bitter activists simply cannot accept the outcome as being truly reflective of the general public. So they have placed the brainwashing blame upon the crusading and misleading zealotry of those religious villains: the Catholics, evangelical Protestants, and especially Mormons, who allegedly are robbing the rights of American citizens by merely executing their right to vote and standing upon their moral convictions and traditional views.

What's surprising (or maybe not so) is that even though 70 percent of African-Americans voted in favor of Proposition 8, protests against black churches are virtually nonexistent. And everyone knows exactly why: Such actions would be viewed as racist. Yet these opponents of Prop. 8 can protest vehemently and shout obscenities in front of Mormon temples without ever being accused of religious bigotry. There's a clear double standard in our society. Where are the hate-crime cops when religious conservatives need them?

There were many of us who passionately opposed Obama, but you don't see us protesting in the streets or crying "unfair." Rather, we are submitting to a democratic process and now asking how we can support "our" president. Just because we don't like the election outcome doesn't give us the right to bully those who oppose us. In other words, if democracy doesn't tip our direction, we don't swing to anarchy. That would be like the Wild West, the resurrection of which seems to be happening in these postelection protests.

I agree with Prison Fellowship's founder, Chuck Colson, who wrote: "This is an outrage. What hypocrisy from those who spend all of their time preaching tolerance to the rest of us! How dare they threaten and attack political opponents? We live in a democratic country, not a banana republic ruled by thugs."

Regardless of one's opinion of Proposition 8, it is flat-out wrong and un-American to intimidate and harass individuals, churches and businesses that are guilty of nothing more than participating in the democratic process. Political protests are one thing, but when old-fashioned bullying techniques are used that restrict voting liberties and even prompt fear of safety, activists have crossed a line. There is a difference between respectfully advocating one's civil rights and demanding public endorsement of what many still consider to be unnatural sexual behavior through cruel coercion and repression tactics. One thing is for sure: The days of peaceful marches, such as those headed up by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., seem to be long gone.

The truth is that the great majority of Prop. 8 advocates are not bigots or hatemongers. They are American citizens who are following 5,000 years of human history and the belief of every major people and religion: Marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman. Their pro-Prop. 8 votes weren't intended to deprive any group of its rights; they were safeguarding their honest convictions regarding the boundaries of marriage.

On Nov. 4, the pro-gay community obviously was flabbergasted that a state that generally leans left actually voted right when it came to holy matrimony. But that's exactly what happened; the majority of Californians -- red, yellow, black and white -- voted to define the margins of marriage as being between one man and one woman. California is the 30th state in our union to amend its constitution in doing so, joining Florida and Arizona in this election. Like it or not, it's the law now. The people have spoken.

[Damien]

Last week, hundreds of protesters picketed El Coyote restaurant in Los Angeles because one of its managers donated $100 to the Yes on 8 campaign.

When I lived in L.A., I went to El Coyote -- a classic Mexican restaurant -- twice a week, and now when I was in Los Angeles I always went back. Never again.



Edited By Damien on 1227081936

[Penelope]

Same-sex activists target Sundance
Boycotts ahead for No on Prop 8 supporters?
By ROBERT HOFLER, MICHAEL JONES

With activists against Proposition 8 -- California's ban on same-sex marriage -- turning to threats of boycotts, attention is focusing on a surprising target: The Sundance Film Festival.
The festival has been fielding calls and emails from activists calling for Sundance to pull its films from a Park City fourplex operated by Cinemark Theaters, whose CEO, Alan Stock, contributed $9,999 to the Yes on Prop. 8 campaign.

Sundance still plans on using those screens and issued a statement Monday saying, "As a nonprofit organization devoted to supporting artists, we very much appreciate and are sensitive to the larger issue at hand and respect the rights of individuals to express themselves. It is our hope that people will embrace the festival for its commitment to diversity, not avoid it."

Cinemark is among the most prominent companies that have come under fire for their connection to the Yes on 8 campaign, with threats of boycotts being fueled via viral campaigns. No organized effort has yet materialized, but the threat of a boycott has inspired concern among some firms given that activists have proved especially adept at organizing, via the Internet, large-scale demonstrations across the country.

Fred Karger, who operates the website Californians Against Hate, said his group has been combing through California secretary of state records for what it calls a "Dishonor Roll" of businesses and individuals who gave substantially to the campaign. They plan to launch a boycott this weekend of A1 Self-Storage because its owner, Terry Caster, and his family members gave more than $600,000 to the Yes on 8 campaign, Karger said.

Last week, hundreds of protesters picketed El Coyote restaurant in Los Angeles because one of its managers donated $100 to the Yes on 8 campaign.

Composer Marc Shaiman ("Hairspray") sparked an Internet protest against Scott Eckern of the Sacramento Musical Theater, who donated $1,000 to Yes on Prop. 8. The artistic director resigned within 24 hours.

The Los Angeles Film Festival issued a statement Friday distancing itself from the political activity of its director, Rich Raddon, who also contributed to the Yes on 8 campaign, after it fielded calls and emails calling on him to be fired.

Fest organizers refused, but Film Independent, which oversees the event, said in a statement, "As a champion of diversity, Film Independent is dedicated to supporting the civil rights of all individuals. At the same time, our organization does not police the personal, religious or political choices of any employee, member or filmmaker."

Other activists have called on a boycott of Sundance altogether, merely because of its ties to Utah, where the Mormon Church is headquartered. Church leaders and members were involved in the campaign to ban gay marriage.

"I think it's also time for the Sundance Film Festival to leave Utah. And for any gay and gay-friendly producers to pull their films," wrote John Aravosis, editor of Americablog.

More fuel was added to that effort Monday when the Associated Press reported that Sundance had asked for funding help from the governor's office. But Sundance executive Sarah West denied that organizers asked for more money and insisted that the meeting had been on the books for weeks.

Chad Griffin, a consultant to the No on 8 campaign, said it would "not be warranted or justified" to go after the Sundance Film Festival, citing its support of gay and lesbian filmmakers and independent film in general.

He is not organizing a boycott, but he said that Cinemark Theaters could be targeted specifically, including the four-screen Holiday Village venue used by the festival.

Cinemark issued a press statement saying that "any individual act or contribution is just that, individual acts of personal expression and do not reflect company positions or policy."

Until Brad Pitt donated $100,000 to No. on Prop. 8 in September, many in the Hollywood community had been largely silent on the subject. Then there were reports of big-cash donations from Steven Spielberg (another $100,000) and Ellen DeGeneres, who, in the wake of her marriage to Portia de Rossi, taped a TV commercial opposing the proposition. And on the eve of election day, Ellen Page gave a pep talk to leafleteers ready to protest Prop. 8 at the polls.

"I'm sorry that I can't vote with you. Where I'm from, marriage is legal for everyone," the Canadian "Juno" actress told the Equality California volunteers gathered at the Gay & Lesbian Center in Hollywood.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who supported No on 8 but would not tape a TV ad, made a quick denunciation of the election-day vote, telling CNN, "I think this will go back into the courts ... it's the same as in the 1949 case when blacks and whites were not allowed to marry. This falls into the same category."

George Clooney opined to E!: "At some point in our lifetime, gay marriage won't be an issue, and everyone who stood against this civil right will look as outdated as George Wallace standing on the school steps keeping James Hood from entering the U. of Alabama because he was black."

And there were strong denunciations from Bill Maher, Jon Stewart and Keith Olbermann on their respective TV shows.

Drew Barrymore joined the demonstrators at a Nov. 8 Silver Lake march of 10,000 protesters, and Whoopi Goldberg participated Wednesday at a Gotham rally of 5,000 protesters who met in front of a Mormon temple at the intersection of Columbus and Broadway.

As Goldberg put it, "If you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't marry a gay person." She then took the cause to "The View," where she battled it out on air with Prop. 8 sympathizer Elisabeth Hasselbeck, leaving it to Barbara Walters to mediate.

Thursday evening, Focus Features preemed the Gus Van Sant-directed "Milk" at the AMPAS Theater in Beverly Hills, where the consensus seemed to be that the film, based on the life of gay activist Harvey Milk, preached to the choir but would galvanize the entertainment community to repeal Prop. 8.

On Saturday, the effort to repeal Prop. 8 took to the streets again, this time with a nationwide protest on the steps of city halls across the country. In downtown L.A., the crowd listened to many activists as well as a few entertainers, including Lucy Lawless, Marissa Jaret Winokur and Ricki Lake. In Las Vegas, comedian Wanda Sykes spoke out and talked about marrying her wife on Oct. 25.

[Penelope]

More from Wanda Sykes at the rally (courtesy a blog called Vegas Happens Here ):

"I thought, man we are moving in the right direction. And then at about 11 o’clock I was crushed. We took a huge leap forward and then got dragged 12 feet back. I felt like I was being attacked, personally attacked, our community was attacked. I got married Oct. 25, I don’t really talk about my sexual orientation, I felt like I was living my life, I wasn’t in the closet, but I was just living my life. Everybody who knows me personally, they know I’m gay. And that’s the way people should be able to live our lives, really. We shouldn’t have to be standing out here demanding something we automatically should have as citizens of this country. ... They pissed off the wrong group of people. They have galvanized a community. We are so together now and we all want the same thing and we shouldn’t have to settle for less. Instead of having gay marriage in California, no, we’re gonna have gay marriage across the country. When my wife and I leave California, I want to have my marriage also recognized in Nevada, in Arizona, all the way to New York. ... I’m proud to be a woman, I’m proud to be a black woman and I’m proud to be gay."

"...people shouldn’t have to talk about their sexual orientation, we shouldn’t have to do it, but with the legislation that they passed, I can’t sit by and just watch. I just can’t do it."

[Penelope]

Highlighting a section of this article, as a famous comedian has come out; from the NY Times:

Across U.S., Big Rallies for Same-Sex Marriage
By JESSE McKINLEY

SAN FRANCISCO — In one of the nation’s largest displays of support for gay rights, tens of thousands of people in cities across the country turned out in support of same-sex marriage on Saturday, lending their voices to an issue that many gay men and lesbians consider a critical step to full equality.

The demonstrations — from a sun-splashed throng in San Francisco to a chilly crowd in Minneapolis — came 11 days after California voters narrowly passed a ballot measure, Proposition 8, that outlawed previously legal same-sex ceremonies in the state. The measure’s passage has spurred protests in California and across the country, including at several Mormon temples, a reflection of that church’s ardent backing of the proposition.

On Saturday, speakers painted the fight over Proposition 8 as another test of a movement that began with the riots at the Stonewall Inn in New York in 1969, survived the emergence of the AIDS crisis in the 1980s, and has since made enormous strides in societal acceptance, whether in television shows or in antidiscrimination laws.

“It’s not ‘Yes we can,’ ” said Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco city supervisor, referring to President-elect Barack Obama’s campaign mantra. “It’s ‘Yes we will.’ ”

Carrying handmade signs with slogans like “No More Mr. Nice Gay” and “Straights Against Hate,” big crowds filled civic centers and streets in many cities. In New York, some 4,000 people gathered at City Hall, where speakers repeatedly called same-sex marriage “the greatest civil rights battle of our generation.”

“We are not going to rest at night until every citizen in every state in this country can say, ‘This is the person I love,’ and take their hand in marriage,” said Representative Anthony D. Weiner of Brooklyn.

In Los Angeles, where wildfires had temporarily grabbed headlines from continuing protests over Proposition 8, Mayor Antonio R. Villaraigosa addressed a crowd of about 9,000 people in Spanish and English, and seemed to express confidence that the measure, which is being challenged in California courts, would be overturned.

“I’ve come here from the fires because I feel the wind at my back as well,” the mayor said, who arrived at a downtown rally from the fire zone on a helicopter. “It’s the wind of change that has swept the nation. It is the wind of optimism and hope.”

About 900 protesters braved a tornado watch and menacing rain clouds in Washington to rally in front of the Capitol and on to the White House. “Gay, straight, black, white; marriage is a civil right,” the marchers chanted.

In Las Vegas, the comedian Wanda Sykes surprised a crowd of more than 1,000 rallying outside a gay community center by announcing that she is gay and had wed her wife in California on Oct. 25. Ms. Sykes, who divorced her husband of seven years in 1998, had never publicly discussed her sexual orientation but said the passage of Proposition 8 had propelled her to be open about it.

“I felt like I was being attacked, personally attacked — our community was attacked,” she told the crowd.

And while some speakers were obviously eager to tap crowds’ current outrage, others took pains to cast the demonstrations as a peaceful, long-term, campaign over an issue that has proved remarkably and consistently divisive.

“We need to be our best selves,” said the Rev. G. Penny Nixon, a gay pastor from San Mateo, Calif., who warned the San Francisco crowd against blaming “certain communities” for the election loss. “This is a movement based on love.”

The protests were organized largely over the Internet, and featured few representatives of major gay rights groups that campaigned against Proposition 8, which passed with 52 percent of the vote after trailing for months in the polls. The online aspect seemed to draw a broad cross-section of people, like Nicole Toussaint, a kindergarten teacher who joined a crowd of more than 1,000 people in Minneapolis.

“I’m here to support my friends who are gay,” said Ms. Toussaint, 23, who is African-American. “I think my generation will play a big role.”

The big crowds notwithstanding, it has been a tough month for gay rights. Proposition 8 was just one of three measures on same-sex marriage passed on Nov. 4, with constitutional bans also being approved in Arizona and Florida. In Arkansas, voters passed a measure aimed at barring gay men and lesbians from adopting children.

That vote was on the minds of many of the 200 people who protested Saturday in front of the State Capitol in Little Rock. One of those, Barb L’Eplattenier, 39, a university professor, said some of her gay friends with adopted children were fearful of state action if they appeared in public. “They think their families are in danger,” said Ms. L’Eplattenier, who married her partner, Sarah Scanlon, in California in July.

The protests over Proposition 8 also come even as same-sex marriages began Wednesday in Connecticut, which joined Massachusetts as the only states allowing such ceremonies. By contrast, 30 states have constitutional bans on such unions.

At a Boston rally on Saturday, Kate Leslie, an organizer, said the loss in California had certainly caught the attention of local gay men and lesbians who have had the right to marry since 2004.

“You’re watching people who could be you and are part of your community being stripped of their rights,” Ms. Leslie said. “And in some ways that’s why so many people are infuriated in Massachusetts and willing to stand up for a rally.”

In California, a State Supreme Court decision legalized same-sex marriage in May. As many as 18,000 couples married, some traveling from other states to tie the knot. Such marriages may be challenged in court.

David McMullin, a garden designer from Atlanta, was one of those who made the trip, marrying his partner in Oakland, Calif., in September, in part to let their two adoptive children feel part of a married family.

“We just want our kids to know we’re O.K.,” said Mr. McMullin, who had come to a protest in front of the Georgia State Capitol. “We have rights as people even if we don’t have rights as citizens.”

Supporters of the proposition have repeatedly argued that Proposition 8 was not antigay, but merely pro-marriage.

“The marriage is between a man and women,” said Frank Schubert, the campaign manager for Protect Marriage, the leading group behind passing Proposition 8. “If they want to legalize same-sex marriage, they are gong to have to bring a proposal before the people of California. That’s how democracy works.”

Equality California, a major gay rights group here, indicated this week that it would work to repeal Proposition 8 if legal challenges fail.

Such dry approaches seemed a million miles away, however, from the boisterous scene in front of San Francisco City Hall on Saturday, where as many as 10,000 people gathered, carrying signs, American flags and even copies of their marriage licenses.

One of those was Lawrence Dean, 57, who had married his partner, Steven Lyle, in San Francisco in July. It was the fifth time that the couple of 19 years had held a ceremony to announce their commitment, and, of course, accept wedding gifts.

“If we keep this up, maybe I won’t have to again,” Mr. Dean said, looking out at the protest. “I have enough pots and pans.”

[Eric]

I worship at the phallic altar of cock.

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Save me!

I don't think you seek salvation, child.

[flipp525]

All religions are cults.

I worship at the phallic altar of cock.

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Save me!

[Eric]

All religions are cults.

I worship at the phallic altar of cock.

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

[flipp525]

All religions are cults.

I worship at the phallic altar of cock.



Edited By flipp525 on 1226764433

[Okri]

But this is not a case of disagreeing on a political issue. It's a case of taking away fundamental human rights. And anyone in favor of depriving other people of their rights deserves to have his or her "rights" -- including livelihood -- taken away as well.

Exactly. Why the hell should we tolerate the intolerant?

[Penelope]

All religions are cults.

[Damien]

A similar story to the theatre director, reported in The Hot Blog.

The cited article says: "And so… the question is now one that a lot of people in the Los Angeles indie community must answer directly… how do we all – gay, straight, and otherwise – feel about seriously damaging careers of people just because we disagree with them politically?"

But this is not a case of disagreeing on a political issue. It's a case of taking away fundamental human rights. And anyone in favor of depriving other people of their rights deserves to have his or her "rights" -- including livelihood -- taken away as well.

I know Jesus said turn the other cheek, but I think even he would have drawn the line at Prop 8 supporters. And He probably would have been appalled at a musical staged by a homophobe. Any musicals staged by this homophobic schmuck would probably have the same finesse as Sidney Lunet when he directed The Wiz.

And Mormonism isn't a religion, it's a cult.



Edited By Damien on 1226726367