The Marriage Debate

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Post by Sonic Youth »

Unless you're Argentinian, that is.
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Post by OscarGuy »

It's a sad day when gay couples can wed in parts of Argentina but can't marry in one of the most progressive states in the country (California).

http://www.cnn.com/2009....ex.html
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Post by OscarGuy »

I have to say that Episcopalians may be the only organized religion I don't have a problem with.



Episcopalians: Bishops can bless same-sex unions

By MICHELLE RINDELS, Associated Press Writer Michelle Rindels, Associated Press Writer – Fri Jul 17, 6:07 pm ET

ANAHEIM, Calif. – Episcopalians on Friday authorized bishops to bless same-sex unions and research an official prayer for the ceremonies, capping a meeting that moved the church closer to accepting gay relationships despite turmoil over the issue in the Anglican family.

The Episcopal General Convention also underscored the church's desire to remain a full member of the global Anglican Communion. But the actions at the national assembly are likely to damage the already strained relations within the fellowship.

Delegates voted earlier this week to effectively drop a pledge that they would act with "restraint" when considering any more openly gay candidates for bishop.

The Episcopal gay advocacy group Integrity said the church "turned an important corner" with the vote.

But the Rev. Dan Martins of the Dioces of Northern Indiana said he feared the measure would widen the rift with overseas Anglicans.

"On this day, my church is covering itself in shame, and I am profoundly sorry for it," he said.

The Episcopal Church caused an uproar among Anglicans in 2003 by consecrating the first openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire. The Anglican spiritual leader, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, has struggled ever since to keep the communion unified.

Anglican leaders had pressed Episcopalians for a moratorium on electing more gay bishops, and asked the church not to develop an official prayer for same-gender couples.

But the measure adopted Friday noted the growing number of U.S. states that allow gay marriage, civil unions and domestic partnerships, and gave bishops in those regions discretion to provide a "generous pastoral response" to couples in local parishes.

The resolution also authorized a church commission to "collect and develop theological resources and liturgies" for blessing same-gender relationships for consideration at the next national convention in 2012. Many dioceses already allow clergy to bless same-sex couples, but there is no liturgy for the ceremonies in the denomination's Book of Prayer.

Williams attended the opening days of the convention and told delegates, "I hope and pray that there won't be decisions in the coming days that could push us further apart."

Back in England, he has said only that he regrets the convention's decision to lift the de facto moratorium on gay bishops. The archbishop of Canterbury does not have the authority to force a compromise on the issue because each Anglican province is independently governed.

The 77 million-member communion is the third-largest grouping of churches worldwide, behind Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches.

Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, head of the Episcopal Church, sent Williams a letter, released publicly Friday, saying that the actions of the convention were not meant to offend and did not mean that all — or any — diocese would necessarily consecrate a gay bishop.

"We remain keenly aware of the concerns and sensibilities of our brothers and sisters in other churches across the communion," she wrote. "We believe also that the honesty reflected in this resolution is essential if we are to live into the deep communion that we all profess and earnestly desire."

David Steinmetz, an expert in Christian history at Duke Divinity School in Durham, N.C., said Anglicanism has always accommodated different views, but "the question now is whether or not they can find enough things to agree about so they can still disagree about other things and stay in the family."

Last month, breakaway Episcopal conservatives and other like-minded traditionalists formed a rival national province to the Episcopal Church called the Anglican Church in North America.

The new body includes four seceding Episcopal dioceses and is supported by several overseas Anglican leaders who have broken ties with the Episcopal Church.

Some traditional Episcopal bishops have stayed with the denomination, but many predicted the latest votes would break the Anglican fellowship. At the end of the convention, about 25 bishops with more conservative Bible views signed a statement that they "reaffirm our commitment to the doctrine, discipline, and worship of Christ as this church has received them."

Delegates wrapped up the meeting with an emotional debate before over same-sex blessings, then sang "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" while the votes were counted.

The Rev. Ian Douglas, a scholar of Anglicanism at Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, Mass., said he realized the resolution could "cause turmoil," but he believed the church was "being faithful to God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit."

"Some will want to cast this decision as a choice between our faithfulness to God and our place in the Anglican Communion. But I will not join in," he said. "I pray that our service to God's mission of reconciliation will keep us together."

George Wing, a theological conservative and delegate from the Diocese of Colorado, said he worries that the church's liberal direction has caused active churchgoers to leave.

"The problem is, the most dedicated of the young people are evangelicals. They're gone, and they're not coming back," Wing said.
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Post by Sabin »

Nothing on "Con-Fused in Gayness"? Nothing...?
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Post by flipp525 »

I might go get fucked right up against the Washington Monument later on today in protest. The sun just came out and after all, it is the big, white cock of our city.
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Post by Mister Tee »

Maybe it's a signal of how dead things are around here that there's been so little reaction to this.

Or, maybe, most see it as I do: as a narrow, "we're not crazy about it but it was a democratic vote" ruling, where the judiciary was loathe to overrule a constitutionally sanctioned public vote, but clearly made a mockery of the ban itself by allowing all the prior marriages to stay in place. (It's worth remembering that Clarence Darrow and his defendant lost the Scopes trial...but when the judge imposed a piddling $100 fine, that made the larger, lasting statement about the anti-evolution statute)

It's hard to say what will put gay marriage over the top first: the legal collision course created by this unequal protection ruling, or the mere fact that pro-marriage forces will keep bringing the issue back to the ballot year after year until demographics bring about its success. And in subsequent years, people will be as incredulous about the struggle as they are today about the fact that women were, not even that long ago, denied the vote.
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Post by Sabin »

The ban was just upheld in California. If you're already making an active mockery of the sacred bonds of heterosexual godliness, then you're still in. If not? We're trying to find a more problematic term than "Civil Union" so don't you worry! You'll be able to get "Con-Fused in Gayness" in California for years to come.



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Post by Damien »

Sonic Youth wrote:It looks like New York is going to move on this very soon as well, and I'd expect Pennsylvania and Jersey to follow. California's going to give it another try, and the West Coast, Mid-west and Great Lakes region will likely be very willing to do the same. A decade from now, I bet we'll have 20 states with legalised gay marriage. They'll mostly be in cold areas, but you can't have everything.
All the better for snuggling up with your hubby.

I believe Rhode Island is the most Democratic state in the country, so there should be some movement there before long. It's also predominantly Catholic, but I don't think most Catholics -- especially young Catholics - are particularly homophobic these days.
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Post by Sonic Youth »

Rhode Island is the only state in New England that hasn't taken steps to legislate gay marriage, and it may be because the economy has devastated R.I. far more than the other states and they just haven't gotten to it yet. We'll see.

Rather than "avalanche", I think the right word is "zeitgeist". In New England at least, it appears to be at the point where many people support gay marriage not because of any individual reason or thought process, but because people sense the general trend and accept it with little to no misgivings. Which I guess is what happens with all political movements and trends once they inhabit the mainstream.

It looks like New York is going to move on this very soon as well, and I'd expect Pennsylvania and Jersey to follow. California's going to give it another try, and the West Coast, Mid-west and Great Lakes region will likely be very willing to do the same. A decade from now, I bet we'll have 20 states with legalised gay marriage. They'll mostly be in cold areas, but you can't have everything.




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Post by OscarGuy »

New Hampshire may become #6:

New Hampshire lawmakers approve same-sex marriage
Posted: 06:42 PM ET

(CNN) — New Hampshire lawmakers on Wednesday passed a same-sex marriage bill, now headed to Gov. John Lynch.

The state House passed the bill in a 178-167 vote. The Senate last week approved the legislation in a 13-11 vote.

The bill passed Wednesday differed from an earlier bill passed in the House by distinguishing between civil and religious marriage. It allows each religion to decide whether to acknowledge same-sex marriage, but extends the option of civil marriage to any two individuals.
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Post by flipp525 »

D.C., despite the cracked-out ramblings of Marion Barry, has also chosen to recognize marriages from those states. Yay! I live near a building that was dedicated in his honor in 1986 and spit on it on my way home from work yesterday. Drugged-up bitch.
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Post by Mister Tee »

Gov. Baldacci obviously thinks it's some kind of unstoppable wave, or he wouln't have adjusted his recently-expressed stance.

Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo notes that this appears to be the first state to generate such a law without prompting from a court ruling...another step along the way. It's all a matter of time, now.
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Post by Eric »

OscarGuy wrote:Is this like an Avalanche?
While I didn't exactly use the term "avalanche," I do believe this was the sentiment I was sharing a few weeks back. I feel the tide has truly turned. Battles may be lost here and there, but the war is decisively won, at least in this generation.
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Post by OscarGuy »

And it's now officially 5:

Maine becomes 5th state to allow same-sex marriage

By GLENN ADAMS, Associated Press Writer Glenn Adams, Associated Press Writer – 23 mins ago

AUGUSTA, Maine – Maine's governor signed a freshly passed bill Wednesday approving gay marriage, making it the fifth state to approve the practice and moving New England closer to allowing it throughout the region.

New Hampshire legislators were also poised to send a gay marriage bill to their governor, who hasn't indicated whether he'll sign it. If he does, Rhode Island would be the region's sole holdout.

The Maine Senate voted 21-13, with one absent, for a bill that authorizes marriage between any two people rather than between one man and one woman, as state law currently allows. The House had passed the bill Tuesday.

Democratic Gov. John Baldacci, who hadn't previously indicated how he would handle the bill, signed it shortly afterward. In the past, he said he opposed gay marriage but supported civil unions, which provide many benefits of marriage.

Debate was brief. Senate President Elizabeth Mitchell, D-Vassalboro, turned the gavel over to an openly gay member, Sen. Lawrence Bliss, D-South Portland, to preside over the final vote.

Republican Sen. Debra Plowman of Hampden argued that the bill was being passed "at the expense of the people of faith."

"You are making a decision that is not well-founded," warned Plowman.

But Senate Majority Leader Philip Bartlett II said the bill does not compel religious institutions to recognize gay marriage.

"We respect religious liberties. ... This is long overdue," said Bartlett, D-Gorham.

Maine is now the fourth state in New England, to allow same-sex marriages. Connecticut enacted a bill after being ordered to allow gay marriages by the courts, and Vermont passed a bill over the governor's veto.

New Hampshire's House was also expected to vote on a bill Wednesday and send it to Gov. John Lynch, a Democrat.

Massachusetts' high court has ordered the state to recognize gay marriages. In Rhode Island, a bill to legalize same-sex marriage has been introduced but is not expected to pass this year.

Outside New England, Iowa is recognizing gay marriages on court orders. The practice was briefly legal in California before voters banned it.
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