Web of Sex Scandals

Reza
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Reza » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:50 pm

ITALIANO wrote:
OscarGuy wrote:
It's a lesson certain people on this board need to learn.


Names please.


Well certainly prim Phillip for one lol

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Reza » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:47 pm

OscarGuy wrote:What Okri MEANT was that Damon is inserting his foot in his mouth. This isn't about freedom of speech or Puritanism or racism. It's about speaking out of turn. It's about learning to speak with consideration and moderation, not saying whatever fool thing comes into your mind. All he's doing, by speaking on this subject, is showcasing his privileged position. Maybe he understands what women are going through and empathizes with them. However, his opinions on the subject are immaterial and when you're privileged, you tend to say things that just showcase that privilege.

Freedom of speech is not the same thing as freedom from repercussions. No one is saying he doesn't have the right to speak, what Okri is implying is that perhaps he should guard his speech and not just open his mouth when he may end up doing more damage than he thinks he will. So, Okri is suggesting that Damon is only hurting himself by speaking out on the subject and saying stupid things, which is why his publicist would want to staple his mouth shut to keep him from damaging himself.

It's a lesson certain people on this board need to learn.


Dude there was no need for this long winded explanation. I already understood what Damon said, what he was trying to say and what he should not have said.

The situation is now getting so out of hand that even a wink at someone could now be misconstrued as sexual harrassment. There is no stopping anyone from retaliating. It's scary and not helped by many like you who are ready to jump down people's throats for asking questions.

I was only trying to add once again that all of you are far too trigger happy in this current scenario failing to see that each case is different and all cannot be lumped together. Yes, there should ideally be no sexual harrassment but it is a direct result of the sexual revolution your society craved and fought for. No amount of flogging your chests is going to make it go away. Speaking out is an excellent start as a means of bringing it out in the open. But you may as well reconcile yourselves to the fact that it's not going anytime soon or at all.
Last edited by Reza on Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Reza » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:44 pm

flipp525 wrote:Reza, you seem overly-invested to say the least. We all remember how you referred to a rape victim once as a “slut” so I really don’t think your opinions on the many dangers of being too politically correct (nevertheless, your multiple, voluminous posts on the subject) really hold all that much water here.


I think I called you a "slut" some years ago but I swear I didn't know you had been raped. I'm now sorry I called you a "slut". Please forgive me.

And kindly desist from acting like bloody Yoda forever dispensing unwanted "sage" advice. You don't HAVE to read my "voluminous" posts. Close your eyes just as I do when you pop up here. Have been doing it for years.
Last edited by Reza on Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby ITALIANO » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:34 pm

OscarGuy wrote:
It's a lesson certain people on this board need to learn.


Names please.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby flipp525 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:20 am

Reza, you seem overly-invested to say the least. We all remember how you referred to a rape victim once as a “slut” so I really don’t think your opinions on the many dangers of being too politically correct (nevertheless, your multiple, voluminous posts on the subject) really hold all that much water here.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby OscarGuy » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:53 am

What Okri MEANT was that Damon is inserting his foot in his mouth. This isn't about freedom of speech or Puritanism or racism. It's about speaking out of turn. It's about learning to speak with consideration and moderation, not saying whatever fool thing comes into your mind. All he's doing, by speaking on this subject, is showcasing his privileged position. Maybe he understands what women are going through and empathizes with them. However, his opinions on the subject are immaterial and when you're privileged, you tend to say things that just showcase that privilege.

Freedom of speech is not the same thing as freedom from repercussions. No one is saying he doesn't have the right to speak, what Okri is implying is that perhaps he should guard his speech and not just open his mouth when he may end up doing more damage than he thinks he will. So, Okri is suggesting that Damon is only hurting himself by speaking out on the subject and saying stupid things, which is why his publicist would want to staple his mouth shut to keep him from damaging himself.

It's a lesson certain people on this board need to learn.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Reza » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:36 am

Okri wrote:On the other hand, Matt Damon is asking people to differentiate amongst the spectrum of sexual harassment. His publicist must want to staple his mouth shut.


"Staple his mouth shut"? So now the famous "freedom of speech" is also being put under the spotlight. And no, before any trigger happy cowboy here decides to shoot me from the hip, I'm not saying I agree with Damon.

Another very "white" American friend had this to say about the on going brouhaha in the United States:

"The pendulum swings. America has the Puritanical urge in its DNA and yet there is the celebration in individual freedom to do almost anything one likes. Clearly, those two urges are in conflict, and most Americans don’t know what to do but figure out the prevailing wind of the day and then start shooting from the hip. We can’t even pose a question without putting ourselves in the spotlight as one who is suspect of being “impure.” I’m fascinated watching people trying to argue for sexual freedom and permissiveness while also arguing good manners and behavior. Sexual passion is by its very nature not well-ordered or well-mannered, which is why it has normally been restricted to marriage—and sometimes managed prostitution in liberal societies".

It seems this very sexual permissiveness which was fought for and won has now come back to bite many in their ass.

Maybe it's time to go back to what the Bible says about sex?

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Okri » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:38 pm

On the other hand, Matt Damon is asking people to differentiate amongst the spectrum of sexual harassment. His publicist must want to staple his mouth shut.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby dws1982 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:24 pm

Late last week it came out that Peter Jackson had considered both Mira Sorvino and Ashley Judd for roles in the Lord of the Rings movies, but Weinstein (who partially funded the movies) told them that they were nightmares to work with and they should avoid working with them. Terry Zwigoff also said that he wanted Sorvino for Bad Santa, but every time he brought her name up to Weinstein, he would hang up the phone. Weinstein, who still has a spokesperson for some reason, has denied having any input on casting in either film.

I'd be willing to bet that many other actresses were similarly kneecapped by Weinstein.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Greg » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:10 pm

First Female Politician Brought Down By Harassment Allegation:

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-run/art ... allegation
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:41 pm

Mister Tee wrote:This is a long piece, and I far from agree with parts of it. But it's a very a thoughtful piece, written by a woman, and it expresses ideas that not a few people have worried about in conversations with me, but which seem to be being hushed in the wide media coverage.

https://www.the-american-interest.com/2 ... lock-hunt/



Very good piece! Thanks for the link - it shows that in the US it IS still possible to express sensible opinoons on this subject. Sadly, I'm afraid that an American MAN would never dare to do so, but I guess that today it takes courage even for a woman. It's true, one may not agree with everything she writes, but let's face it - only the sexophobes (there are many though, at laast on that side of the ocean) couldn't agree with the main points in the piece.

I'm not sure that those who accused me of being a rapist will say the same about her now - she is, after all, American. But i can imagine their reaction... :)

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Mister Tee » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:18 pm

This is a long piece, and I far from agree with parts of it. But it's a very a thoughtful piece, written by a woman, and it expresses ideas that not a few people have worried about in conversations with me, but which seem to be being hushed in the wide media coverage.

https://www.the-american-interest.com/2 ... lock-hunt/

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby ITALIANO » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:58 am

Sonic Youth wrote:
No, I didn't think so. Actually, I was pointing out the similarities between nascent movements.



But these "nascent movements" can't be compared - don't you understand? In those cases it was ethnic or sexual minorities claiming for equal rights, changes of laws, etc. In this case it's impossible to generalize, as each case is different and when even an old high-school-time photo can be used and looked at with suspicon, we are in a completely different territory. This is what I'm trying to say since I've started writing about this subject here.

As for me being pro-rape, you lately wrote that you had changed your mind and that you agree with my accusers (not in this thread). Even just saying "I am sorry, ITALIANO" would have been more honorable than always avoiding my points. But ok, never mind.

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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby Sonic Youth » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:34 pm

ITALIANO wrote:
I don't know how anyone could compare civil rights... with individual cases


Did I really say that? Hmmm....

Yes, there's going to be false accusations, mistaken accusations, and exaggerated accusations. All of this, unfortunately, also happened with every civil rights movement in history. It shouldn't happen. But it does. Historically, it's one of the inevitable consequences whenever there's a liberation movement going on. There will always be victims of an injustice as the oppressed or mistreated group in question assert themselves. We're fooling ourselves if we're expecting a nice, clean, victim-less paradigm shift. There's no such thing. That doesn't mean it's lost legitimacy.


No, I didn't think so. Actually, I was pointing out the similarities between nascent movements.

ITALIANO wrote:Interestingly, all this from someone who - in another thread - joined others in accusing me of being pro-rape :D

Let the record show that on Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:24 pm, I wrote:

I don't want to be in the middle of this fight, but I should say that whatever my disagreements with Italiano here, I don't agree at all with accusations that Italiano is pro-rape or an apologist for rapists (which was the original statement). That was uncalled for.


ITALIANO wrote:See how everything has a logic?

Not when the premise is false.

ITALIANO wrote:I think this is very interesting, really. And I'm glad to see others here being more balanced in their examination of such a complex, subtle, and sometimes contradictory issue. Each case must be judged individually

No, we were evaluating the Democratic party's handling of the situation, and the bind they were in.

ITALIANO wrote:I swear that I don't have anything against this Sonic Youth. I even chosed to forget - and forgive - his homophobic remarks from years ago.


I allowed the possibility of this because I may have said something when you and I were engaging in tough-guy playground taunts, which tend to be "heteronormative". (That's in quotes for your benefit just in case you consider it to be one of the politically correct words you can't stand.) But you gave no specifics, so I'm left in the dark about this. As I said before, I would hate for it to be true.

But judging from the untruths, misunderstandings and inaccuracies of all the other claims you made above, chances are pretty fair that this is another inaccuracy, misunderstanding or untruth.

These point by point corrections are probably as boring to read as they are to write, so this will be the last one. Feel free to willingly or unwillingly misconstrue anything else I say.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:36 am

Sonic Youth wrote:
Yes, there's going to be false accusations, mistaken accusations, and exaggerated accusations. All of this, unfortunately, also happened with every civil rights movement in history.



I don't know how anyone could compare civil rights (and laws which rightly guarantee equality in society for whole and sadly disciminated sections of it) with individual cases - some definitely real and terrible, but others probably fake or exaggerated - which can only be judged separately and for which laws - thank God - already exist. If one is fair and not blinded by excited fanaticism, I mean.

When I read this person's florid and clearly agitated posts I realize even more how dangerous this situation could become in the future. The idea that lives can be destroyed by lies because, well, it's for a higher goal, is so devoid of any humanity and ethical conscience that it makes me scared now. Not even angry anymore. Scared. Since this person has used the civil rights movements in a totally inappropriate way, I will do something similar and say I can only imagine what this person would have said and how he would have acted for example in Nazi Germany or other regimes, when fake accusations where the norm and, again, for a higher goal.

Interestingly, all this from someone who - in another thread - joined others in accusing me of being pro-rape :D See how everything has a logic? I think this is very interesting, really. And I'm glad to see others here being more balanced in their examination of such a complex, subtle, and sometimes contradictory issue. Each case must be judged individually - those who try desperately to apply their general, and self-serving theories to ALL of them do a disservice first of all to truth, which is never unique, then to humanity, which is compoed of so many different fragments and can't be unified (though it is of course much simpler and reassuring not to understand this). And, lastly, to themselves, for many reasons which I don't want to go into now.

I swear that I don't have anything against this Sonic Youth. I even chosed to forget - and forgive - his homophobic remarks from years ago. I don't think he is a bad person or a stupid one. I'm sure that his ideas and principles come from something deep inside himself. But can I be honest? If Americans were all like him, I'd be worried. Very worried.


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