Web of Sex Scandals

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ITALIANO
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Post by ITALIANO »

Precious Doll wrote: I continued to watch his films because I will not boycott anybody's films over events in their personal lives or because of their political views either. Once you start doing that sort of thing, where do you stop?
Exactly.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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Precious Doll wrote: Allen's affair with his long time girlfriends adopted daughter, Soon-Yi Previn has torn the Farrow family apart and I cannot muster up any sympathy for Woody Allen. "The heart wants what the heart wants" he stated back in 1992. He also has a brain but clearly no moral compass.
True, but then all these suddenly conscience-stricken actors and actresses in his films since knew that when they signed on to make them.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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dws1982 wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:He was exonerated in court long ago on charges brought by Mia Farrow who many believe put the notion of her then 7-year-old daughter Dylan's being molested by him in her head.
The prosecutor declined to prosecute because he felt he couldn't get a conviction (which is often the case for sexual assault cases, especially those involving children), but that's not exoneration.
OK.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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Big Magilla wrote:He was exonerated in court long ago on charges brought by Mia Farrow who many believe put the notion of her then 7-year-old daughter Dylan's being molested by him in her head.
The prosecutor declined to prosecute because he felt he couldn't get a conviction (which is often the case for sexual assault cases, especially those involving children), but that's not exoneration.
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Precious Doll
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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I was a big Woody Allen fan but those allegations back in 1992 certainly made me take a step back. Whilst we will never now if he did or did not molest his adopted daughter, there has been so much conflicting evidence in the press and on the internet over the years that it is virtually impossible to decipher what may be the truth.

But Allen's affair with his long time girlfriends adopted daughter, Soon-Yi Previn has torn the Farrow family apart and I cannot muster up any sympathy for Woody Allen. "The heart wants want the heart wants" he stated back in 1992. He also has a brain but clearly no moral compass.

I continued to watch his films because I will not boycott anybody's films over events in their personal lives or because of their political views either. Once you start doing that sort of thing, where do you stop?

I feel Allen's films from Sleeper to Bullets Over Broadway, inclusive, as one of the most impressive run of films of virtually any director in the history of cinema. I could watch some of them every week forever and don't think I would get bored. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I haven't gained some pleasure by the decline in his work over the last 20 years. He sometimes gives us some pleasures like Small Time Crooks, You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger, Blue Jasmine, Midnight in Paris & Cafe Society but most of his work has been mediocre at best and embarrassing at worst. I also feel not having a muse to write for (i.e. Diane Keaton & Mia Farrow) and stilted him as a writer. Farrow in particular stretched Allen as a writer/director for which he bestowed on filmgoers some of the most inventive films of his career.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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God knows I have never been Woody Allen's biggest fan. I have been uneasy about his depiction of young girls since Mariel Hemingway in Manhattan, but I find this current shaming of him abhorrent.

He was exonerated in court long ago on charges brought by Mia Farrow who many believe put the notion of her then 7-year-old daughter Dylan's being molested by him in her head. Her adopted son, Moses, 14 at the time, has publicly come out against her. Dylan's younger brother, Woody's only biological son, Ronan, 4 or 5 at the time, whose investigation exposed Harvey Weinstein, supports her. For decades now, actors have steered clear of taking sides in the dispute. Now, because of the #MeToo movement, it's become fashionable to believe the accuser, even when nothing in the accused's background shows similar behavior. Allen is suddenly toxic for no rational reason.

My first thought when I heard that Timothée Chalamet had given up his salary on Allen's latest film, in which he stars, was is the young actor suddenly so wealthy that he can afford to mimic Mark Wahlberg? With no other films in the offing, Chalamet really isn't in position to throw money around. His career could fizzle as quickly as it took flight this past year. As the worm turns, he could find himself holding the short end of the stick with public opinion swinging back in the other direction.

With more misses than hits since the Farrow breakup, it's probably time for the 82-year-old Allen to give it a rest, but he shouldn't be forced to do so for something that has been out there for more than a quarter of a century with no further clarity now than it had then.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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With developments in recent weeks in relation to the on-going allegations against Woody Allen, I suspect it's very unlikely we will see any new films from Woody Allen. It seems like only yesterday (late 1992) since these first came to light.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/j ... llegations
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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OscarGuy wrote:We all knew when this started that there would, unfortunately, be opportunists who used the movement as a score-settling mechanism
Well... Actually when I tried to say that I was accused of being pro-rape :D (You can read those posts and see, they aren't even too old.)

But of course it's not just - or always - opportunism. Sabin's girlfriend, I am sure, isn't an opportunist. And like her, many others. It's a much deeper problem, but ok, if you want to see it white-and-black, like in American movies, I give up :)

By the way... Sabin - leave her :wink:
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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We all knew when this started that there would, unfortunately, be opportunists who used the movement as a score-settling mechanism or a fame-getting tool, but we cannot allow these isolated incidents, which are VERY QUICKLY rooted out and exposed and appropriately ridiculed, to stop the momentum of the overall movement.

I find the difference in responses interesting between folks like Ansari and those who are legitimately scummy like Spacey, Hoffman, Douglas, TJ Miller, and Franco. The latter set deny, obfuscate, or otherwise deflect while Ansari acknowledged the problem and handled the whole situation with class even though he knew that the situation had been grossly misrepresented.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

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Sabin wrote:There's one part of the story that keeps jumping out at me. It's where she says he ordered white wine. She prefers red, but he ordered white. Which makes it seem like she had no control over the course of the evening at all...

Then order your own wine.
It wasn’t white wine that he had ordered. He had an open bottle waiting for both of them to enjoy at his place before they went out to dinner.

That detail was a huge red flag for me (a red flag pointing toward a very entitled millennial woman).
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Post by ITALIANO »

Please read what I wrote on this board about this subject. Yes, exactly those posts which led to Oscar Guy accusing me of being a rapist or a potential rapist and implying that I should be banned, to Sonic Youth, Uri and others attacking me in a more subtle but I'd say even nastier way, and most here - except a few who were suppotive either publicly or privately - being cowardly silent. My God, some even wrote about their (certainly terrible) experences on this subject as if I had personally done those to them! At the same time, that confirmed my fears: the witch-hunt had started, as I knew it would.

I had expressed very balanced, very obvious truths. Truths which I knew about because I have a life - I do live, and I know how varied and potentially ambiguous this subject can be, and that while certain acts are OBVIOUSLY wrong, and should be toughly punished (preferably by justice rather than on the web), there is also a grey area which is extremely dangerous and subtle, and can be used either intentionally or even unintentionally in the worst possible way. For the simple reason that while I love sex (unlike, I feel, most of my accusers here I have a very healthy sexual life), I also know how, let's say, complicated it can be. Fascinatingly complicated, I'd add - but still so complex that each case is different, and general theories unfortunately (oh, how simple they are, and how easy it would be if thet could be always applied!) can't exist.

The hysteria here (more American and Israeli than European, I must say) meant that I just had to wait, and soon facts would have confimed my fears. And this is, of course, what's happening now. Some were annoyed when I didn't feel moved by those stars dressed in black at the Golden Globes. I found that hypocritical, and I still feel that way. Some compared such movements to the civil-rights protests of the 60s. I smiled - a sad smile - because I knew that it wasn't the same thing. Definitely not.

Most importantly - there is (I must choose words carefully because Oscar Guy otherwise will have a heart attack) a physical aspect in sex. (This is why I'm not sure that those who attacked me have a healthy sexual life). A contact of bodies which can be sometimes playful, sometimes rough, sometimes even aggressive, and sometimes downright clumsy (one can make mistakes, and maybe for example try to kiss someone who doesn't really want that. Embarassing, of course - but is that sexual harassment)? If one - I repeat: intentionally or not - starts considering these and other thousands different sexual aspects as rape, not only the result is a damage to innocent people, but also a damage to a cause which is, I repeat, right and justified - a damage to the REAL victims of rape and sexual harassment.

And even our own reaction to sexual harassment especially is so... subjective. Oh, before someone says it: sexual harassment is always WRONG if it is REAL - even more wrong if done to those who are in a lower position or who are simply weaker (children, employees, women etc). But even the victims' reaction can be different. When I was much younger - and maybe more attractive than I am now, but definitely more naive - I, like everyone, was groped by strangers in crowded buses, and once assaulted by a married man in his car. Was it annoying? Yes. Was it a tragic shock which marked me for life and still inflences my view of sex? Of course not. I will always defend those who can be hurt by experiences like these - but I personally can't play the role of the tearful victim, I wouldn't be honest, because frankly I considered those as not pleasant but in a way important lessons of life. And life isn't always smooth and easy.

Oh, now the sexophobes will react again. But can I be honest again? In a case of sexual harassment, if I were part of a jury, I feel I'd me more qualified than those who keep attacking me here. Mora balanced, certainly.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Post by Sabin »

There's one part of the story that keeps jumping out at me. It's where she says he ordered white wine. She prefers red, but he ordered white. Which makes it seem like she had no control over the course of the evening at all...

Then order your own wine.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Post by flipp525 »

The girl herself identified the encounter as a sexual assault in the original “reporting” (if you can even call it that). For the record, I don’t think this qualifies as an assault, but I’m not pulling the term out of my ass.

I think the whole roll-out of this story has been handled really poorly. And it mostly sounds to me like a girl who wanted to bag a relationship with a famous person (one whom she was not even attracted to) and then became incensed when she realized that he really just wanted to take her home and fuck her.

She tweeted about the whole thing back in October and it didn’t get the traction she wanted so she came out with it again at the height of awards season #MeToo coverage.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Post by Mister Tee »

Anyone, man or woman, who hasn't at some point woke up the day after having sex with someone and regretted it is a) a virgin or b) a liar.

The Aziz Ansari thing is a bad date; bad sex. It happens. It's not assault, and, as many are saying here, it demeans this important movement and its focus on actual assault by conflating every sexual mis-step with Harvey Weinstein. Sex is a complicated thing (for both men and women, though you'd never know that, these days); people misread, misinterpret, or simply have different expectations. If we make that a crime, we're halfway back to the Victorian era. (And there's a real generational thing here. One over-50 lady I've read, reading that article and hearing that the first thing Ansari did was cunnilingus, noted that 30 years ago, she'd have considered that an impossible dream date.)

I get a strong whiff of Madame Defarge from things I'm reading these days. It makes me glad my most sexually adventurous years are past; it feels like a political mine-field.
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Re: Web of Sex Scandals

Post by Sabin »

I've read other hot takes that omit the phrase assault and instead use the word misconduct.

Also, I recommend 'The Atlantic' piece "Aziz Ansari and the Paradox of No." It draws attention to the miscommunication between the two of them, how he could text her the next day saying he enjoyed their evening and she could walk away feeling assaulted.
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