Decision 2016

[Greg]

These Reports Allege Trump Has Deep Ties To Russia:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/t ... .uoO5vpXWv

This report released by BuzzFeed, however, is still yet to be verified. I must say, I did read an hilarious pun related to one of the bizarre sexual allegations. What is the difference between a lentil and a chickpea? Trump would not pay $1,000 to have a lentil on his face.

[Sonic Youth]

criddic3 wrote
Let's try to give Mr. Trump a real chance to prove us wrong before throwing nasty hypothetical scenarios at him.

I've never thought this about another living person before, but I just hope he dies. He's a terrible human being who is categorically unfit for office. Additionally, he's about as perfect an example as we can find of everything that is wrong with this country. Sure, it'd be fun to expose everything that he's done in his awful life, but it's not going to do anything. The Democratic Party is going to be incompetent opposition against him. The 2018 midterms are brutal for Democrats, despite whatever boost in turnout we might hopefully get. We're looking at a four year Republican super majority under a Donald Trump Presidency, which means we're going to see a balance between corporate and crazy that will fuck a hole through the country and the world. I have zero hope.

I don't want anyone to kill him. I just want his heart to explode under the pressure of actual work, and maybe for him to be alone when it happens, so he feels helpless and scared. Maybe naked. Maybe his last thoughts are "Oh, no. Someone's gonna see my dick." That'd be fine. Maybe a few years later, a White House Staffer writes a book called: "Small: The Story of The Time I Saw The President's Dick." I'd prefer somebody from his family not kill him so that we're not plunged into years of reality show scandal. I could just see that dragging out for a while, but whatever happens sooner: murdered by his family or a heart attack. Or a coma! I'm fine with a coma or a stroke.

Actually, I'm going to amend my statement. I hope he has a stroke and it becomes clear he can't serve, so he has to step down. He can leave a hero, beloved by the nation. He can live for twenty more years. When he does die, we can mourn him and think "What if he actually got a chance to serve!" I'm fine with that. I'll never say another bad word about him ever. I just really hope he has a stroke and has to leave office immediately.

I've got this funny feeling that Trump is wishing the same thing right now.

[Sonic Youth]

Clearly I must have some sort of block, whether it be mental or psychological. I just can't wish violent and physical suffering upon other people, and not with such graphic and emotional intensity. All thoughts and fantasies can spiral out of our control if they're entertained too often or too seriously, so it benefits everyone if they can be kept in check. Once we go dark, who's to say we can't go even darker than that? And although I think phrases like "You sink down to their level" or "Then the bad guys have won" is empty rhetoric, I buy it in this case. We've got to stay as focused as we can.

Please understand, though, it doesn't mean I'm better and more moral than anyone else. I'm not saying anyone needs to be ashamed of saying such things. Not at all. Thoughts are thoughts, and hatred is a natural instinct. I have my share, although rather than wish for death and suffering, I think what we need is more t-------m.... Okay, I can't say the word, because I don't want to trip up any Washington agency's computer programs and get me in trouble. Let's call it "civil disobedience taken to the next level". Basically, we need a new Weather Underground. Trump has buildings all over the world with his name on them. They're prime targets. What's wrong with a little property destruction? As long as no one gets killed or injured, this would be a great disruption and make a great statement. But no one can get hurt, otherwise it's a failure afaic. I really don't see why such a thing can't be done. There's a guy named Banksy who goes all around the world defacing public property. He has never been caught, no one has ever seen him, and he's regarded as a modern day Robin Hood. This would be just taking unlawful but non-violent expression to a higher level.

And let me add that I HAVE NO interest in masterminding or participating in such an idea. I don't have the desire, the brains, the know-how, the enthusiasm, the ability, and especially not the money to pull off anything like this. Nor do I want to go to jail and risk not raising my child. It's just a whim. (This paragraph was written for the behalf of the secret service agent who is no doubt reading this. *waves* Hey you, with the dark glasses! Hello! I see you!)

Donald Trump is a deplorable person, reactionary, opportunistic, abominable, undeserving , etc. etc. etc. With those adjectives being on record, what does that make a Mike Pence? The man who would be president upon stroke , heart attack, incapacitation, death . Am I alone in being more fearful of such a deplorable?

The answer to that is no, but I am not one of them. I would MUCH rather have Pence as president than Trump. And for a lot of reasons, but I only have time for one right now. Basically: the devil you know vs. the devil you don't know. And I think claiming we know Trump by now is a big mistake. There are other reasons, but that's all I have time for.

[OscarGuy]

Apart from financial supporters in his cabinet, the selections made this far REEK of Pence, who has led the transition team. We know that Trump has ZERO interest in actually governing and is mostly delegating that responsibility. It's why we get someone like Betsy DeVos nominated for Education Secretary, a position where she'll be able to push for voucher programs, taking money out of the public school system and siphoning it into religious institutions that will either refuse those students who aren't "smart" enough to test, who don't have a specific religion, sexuality, or gender representation, and then teach those they do accept the tenets of Creationism and anti-evolutionary theory. They will be indoctrinated in ways we could never imagine. As someone who went to Catholic School from 2nd through 5th grades, I can attest that they are very religious, requiring prayer at the start of each school session and we were even required to attend mass every Friday.

DeVos, apart from being a key Trump donor, would not be someone I can ever see Trump selecting for this post. He was never outspoken on Education and the selections smells of Mike Pence. Whether Trump dies and Pence is sworn in or Pence remains vice president, it won't matter as his imprimatur will be on this administration regardless. The ONLY real reason to wish Trump out of the office is so that his petulance won't lead the world into war at the drop of an insult. This is a man who doesn't listen to the criticism levied at him, he just responds in a negative way. No one who ACTUALLY listened to what Streep had to say about him would have thought she said anything that wasn't true, but he didn't hear what she said, he just reacted. That's his response to everything. He's a child who's never been told no and when he is, he goes out of his way to make their lives miserable. That's a dangerous person. Pence, for all his faults, is a politician, a dangerous one, but a politician and at least understands diplomacy.

Too bad Trump won't make it out of history without the moniker President, and he certainly won't live long enough to discover that he's ranked among the Hardings and Grants and Johnsons as one of the worst; nor will a lot of those who will be damaged by two years, let alone four, of Republican policies. Look at the detritus in Kansas, and look what's about to happen in Missouri. We are at the vanguard of a dangerous period where Republicans have taken control through various nefarious means and the people who are going to pay the price aren't just the minorities (women are a majority, but I'll count them in the minority for this purpose), but those who supported Trump and the Republican through it all. For all the talk of moochers and immigrants stealing jobs, when the economy sucks enough that they aren't creating jobs and are actually killing them, then and only then will they realize that perhaps it was a bad move.

During the election, I heard people wonder why we can't referencing Bush when he hadn't been president for eight years. This is why. Because the last time a Republican had full control of congress and the presidency, the Great Recession happened.

Sorry, for the rant. I'm tired and can't see very well because my eyes are still heavily swollen.

[Big Magilla]

Trump is shit and largely because of the party he has semi-recently chosen, but the Pences, Sessiones, Mattises, Perrys, Tillermans, Flynns, Priebuses, and Bannons are the real real problem...in the same-ish way Bush was a buffoon with a few ideas but Cheney was a warlord with frightening conservative ideals running the show.

Yes. Be careful what you wish for. Except for Bannon, if Trump were to leave office for any reason, Pence would retain just about all those who surround him except for him, Kushner and maybe the dragon lady (Conway).

The one saving grace about Trump is that he is pragmatic. He can and does change on a dime. Pence is an ideologue who will work his will on the country just as he did in Indiana. He's infinitely more dangerous, this benign face of evil.

I don't wish death or incapacity on anyone, not even Trump, but I can't help thinking that the death, incapacity, resignation or retirement of one of the conservative judges on the Supreme Court could restore balance if the liberals stay healthy and the Dems can truly block appointments through the next four years. The Court is the biggest problem. The evils of the new White House gang can be overturned in the next election, but the damage caused by bad Supreme Court rulings could take thirty years or more to be rectified.

[Bog]

I don't think it's possible too be fearful enough of what lies ahead.

This, 1000 times this. I haven't been able to add as much to this (or any) thread as I wish I could (pronounced should), but all respect to Sonic I'm not certain there are functional pads, the brake lines have been cut, hydraulic fluid has dried up, and our feet have cramped up as far as hitting, let alone pumping the brakes with regard to what has happened to this country as it stands. Sabin, I agree with Okri and Tee and am not at all offended by a single word you wrote. I personally will choose not to wish death upon someone or anyone, while at the same time (for fear of sounding like an idiot Trumper) am sick of the "salt of the earth" "no bad man ever died" type of political correctness bullshit. Something about our society or the way death hits with its finality seems to encourage the need to avoid talk of objective proof of being a terrible person while walking earth...even prior to sadly being elected the most important person on this earth. When statements like Sabin's are made we are inherently supposed to be offended or aghast that someone would wish such "awful" events to occur.

I will counter by asking the collectively smartest people I know politically (this beloved board) a question of which maybe I'm all wet: isn't this leader of the free world the most malleable and potentially hopeful (for us ) of any of the 2 dozen or so "human beings" about to run this now MUCH murkier supposedly drained swamp? Donald Trump is a deplorable person, reactionary, opportunistic, abominable, undeserving , etc. etc. etc. With those adjectives being on record, what does that make a Mike Pence? The man who would be president upon stroke , heart attack, incapacitation, death . Am I alone in being more fearful of such a deplorable? A man who will say aloud he wishes gas chamber for anyone not considered a heterosexual, who beseeches Planned Parenthood to come with a full funeral/burial fee...and believes these ideas outside of loud grandstanding to get elected.

Trump is shit and largely because of the party he has semi-recently chosen, but the Pences, Sessiones, Mattises, Perrys, Tillermans, Flynns, Priebuses, and Bannons are the real real problem...in the same-ish way Bush was a buffoon with a few ideas but Cheney was a warlord with frightening conservative ideals running the show.

If there is hope...and it does seem dire...2018 can only serve to energize those scorned despite the very minimal options. If the 2010 Tea Party anti-Obamacare midterms is a reference where a crazy shitshow amount of seats swapped due to sudden negative reaction to our new president, we just need blue to stay blue and snag Nevada and Nebraska as well as either Arizona and/or Tennessee (harder endeavor) but possibly Giffords in the former and Karl Dean the latter could snip some power and subdue the bastard-elect just 2 years into this debacle. Before you dismiss this as impossible imagine yourself watching Beyonce sing 8 years ago and thinking John Boehner would be the second most important politician during the Obama administration...

[Mister Tee]

Not gonna lie, I thought Sabin was fairly polite in his initial comments - that's how dark I've taken these past two months.

Me both. I'm in my 60s, and I fear this blunder is going to have negative repercussions lasting the rest of my life. I've never been as pessimistic about American life as I have been since election day. The fact that this was so unnecessary -- that, at minimum, minus the Comey intrusion, we'd have Hillary being inaugurated; that her popular margin was negated by an electoral college that has now effectively gerrymandered the presidency -- only makes it all worse. I don't think it's possible too be fearful enough of what lies ahead.

[Okri]

Not gonna lie, I thought Sabin was fairly polite in his initial comments - that's how dark I've taken these past two months.

[Sabin]

Sonic Youth wrote
Sabin, I thought my loathing for Trump knew no bounds, but I guess I was wrong because I can't imagine going to such lengths to write what you did. No, not even for Donald Trump. I totally get your despair, but pump the brakes a bit. It's probably not good for YOUR heart. And while I don't believe in karma, why tempt it? In this case, karma could come in the form of an FBI file.

White supremacists are empowered and memberships are on the rise. We're looking at four years or more of zero climate change regulation and we're at the tipping point. Our golden opportunity for a progressive Supreme Court is gone. Why? Because Donald Trump just felt like running for president one day and bumble-fucked his way into an unreal coalition of working class white voters, pro-life Latinos, WOMEN!!!!, swamp people who came on land for the first time to vote, and Democrats who stayed home. Fuck. Him.

Look on the bright side! Think of all those awesome road trip movies we're going to have of fathers who have to drive their daughters across state lines to get a legal abortion before she hits the second trimester and it becomes illegal. Alexander Payne has been waiting his entire career for this.

[Sonic Youth]

Sabin, I thought my loathing for Trump knew no bounds, but I guess I was wrong because I can't imagine going to such lengths to write what you did. No, not even for Donald Trump. I totally get your despair, but pump the brakes a bit. It's probably not good for YOUR heart. And while I don't believe in karma, why tempt it? In this case, karma could come in the form of an FBI file.

That said, were he to die tomorrow, I certainly won't mourn him.

Criddic, although I don't believe for a second that it will happen, I really am open to the possibility that Trump may surprise everyone and prove our worst fears were unfounded. (Although, looking at all the open bigotry and hostility his campaign - let alone his win - has unleashed, some of our worst fears have happened already.) But I don't understand why we have to "give him a chance" until that does or does not happen. If we were wrong about him, then we were wrong, and we'll all eventually come around with a little egg on our faces. But a). he's going to be the president. Isn't that enough of a chance? And b)., it's not like he's Bob Dole or John McCain or Mitt Romney. He's not someone who's policies we may dislike or abhor, but as a human being is someone who is civil and respectful to his colleagues and to the people, and who may actually have studied the Constitution. Trump is in a different league altogether. He is brutal. He is vicious. He is contemptuous. He is not someone that could possibly make people feel good about America. (And do you think he knows one thing about the Constitution other than the occasional amendment?) Yes, mutual respect is wonderful. But if there needs to be a respectful relationship between Trump and the citizens, then it's Trump who has to extend the hand to us. I know the "rule" is supposed to be we at least respect the office of the presidency, but that baseline of automatic respect is badly damaged. And it's all his doing. He doesn't respect the office himself, or any other of our institutions.

I do appreciate that you did not vote for Trump, though. I really do.

[Sabin]

criddic3 wrote
Let's try to give Mr. Trump a real chance to prove us wrong before throwing nasty hypothetical scenarios at him.

I've never thought this about another living person before, but I just hope he dies. He's a terrible human being who is categorically unfit for office. Additionally, he's about as perfect an example as we can find of everything that is wrong with this country. Sure, it'd be fun to expose everything that he's done in his awful life, but it's not going to do anything. The Democratic Party is going to be incompetent opposition against him. The 2018 midterms are brutal for Democrats, despite whatever boost in turnout we might hopefully get. We're looking at a four year Republican super majority under a Donald Trump Presidency, which means we're going to see a balance between corporate and crazy that will fuck a hole through the country and the world. I have zero hope.

I don't want anyone to kill him. I just want his heart to explode under the pressure of actual work, and maybe for him to be alone when it happens, so he feels helpless and scared. Maybe naked. Maybe his last thoughts are "Oh, no. Someone's gonna see my dick." That'd be fine. Maybe a few years later, a White House Staffer writes a book called: "Small: The Story of The Time I Saw The President's Dick." I'd prefer somebody from his family not kill him so that we're not plunged into years of reality show scandal. I could just see that dragging out for a while, but whatever happens sooner: murdered by his family or a heart attack. Or a coma! I'm fine with a coma or a stroke.

Actually, I'm going to amend my statement. I hope he has a stroke and it becomes clear he can't serve, so he has to step down. He can leave a hero, beloved by the nation. He can live for twenty more years. When he does die, we can mourn him and think "What if he actually got a chance to serve!" I'm fine with that. I'll never say another bad word about him ever. I just really hope he has a stroke and has to leave office immediately.

[criddic3]

Is there some reason Anonymous or someone else cannot hack into Trump's tax returns so we can at least see how deep he is in with them? I also think there could be some serious blackmail material Putin has on Trump including, but not limited to, tapes that portray underage and perhaps non-consensual (rape), sex between Trump and a minor.

Hoping for the worst is a rather shallow way to live. I didn't vote for the guy and I am just as puzzled by his attitude towards Putin, but the election is over. Let's try to give Mr. Trump a real chance to prove us wrong before throwing nasty hypothetical scenarios at him.

[flipp525]

This is just mind-boggling. I truly believe that Donald Trump has been compromised by a hostile foreign country and now our national security is under threat (under threat? It's already been breached). Russia hacked into the RNC too, so any Republican in Congress must also, at the very least, be considered to be compromised.

Is there some reason Anonymous or someone else cannot hack into Trump's tax returns so we can at least see how deep he is in with them? I also think there could be some serious blackmail material Putin has on Trump including, but not limited to, tapes that portray underage and perhaps non-consensual (rape), sex between Trump and a minor.

I haven't been very active on this thread mostly because I've been in a state of shock since the election (and had the decidedly un-fortuitous luck of releasing my book the week after said election and have focused my attention on promotion, reviews, interview, etc.) This is very frightening territory we're about to enter here, folks. And I think every person who voted for Trump is a traitor to the United States of America.

[criddic3]

Well, it's official....

https://www.c-span.org/video/?421237-1/ ... -president

[Big Magilla]

If this goes any further, it will need its own thread, but for now...

http://nypost.com/2017/01/06/new-york-c ... for-mayor/