Ten Best Films of 2004

[Sonic Youth]

Samien and Dabin, you've completely ignored the one thing that gives Harold and Kumar its unique quality: our stoner protaganists are Asian-Americans, and much of the humor is based in ethnicity. This provides us with a whole new level of transgressiveness, not only of the stoner-buddy comedy but the second-generation seeking-out-that-dream genre. (So much for "Mom, I want to be a jazz singer".) They're also really smart dudes, which gives it another twist.

Sabin, I don't know what you mean by "A leads to B leads to C". Do you mean the film-making? Yeah, it was pretty plain, but the director (forgot his name; probably never knew it) did know how to capture night-time scenes with just the right touch of ominoso.

Neil Patrick Harris is in my shoulda-been list for Best Supporting Actor, 2004. I had no idea he was gay, straight, or other. Knowing he was once Doogie Howser was enough of an inside joke for me.

[Damien]

Had no idea Neil Patrick Harris was gay. Never would've guessed from his performance.

I knew Neil Patrick was gay ever since reading an interview back in the Doogie Howser days in which he said his favorite music was show tunes.



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[Sabin]

Had no idea Neil Patrick Harris was gay. Never would've guessed from his performance. I would've liked a Harold and Kumar movie that was a little less A-leads to-B-leads to-C but all in all, pretty funny.

[anonymous1980]

Oh, Irvin, my use of the word "simpleton" was a joke -- as indicated by my use of the smile button icon -- a tongue-in-cheek rejoinder to your humorous assertion that I would find you "crazy" for seeing The Incredibles 7 times. I'd hope you realized that I respect and admire you and your film appreciation a great deal.


Having said that, however, isn't it completely obvious that Helen wouls use her elasticity to save her kids when they're falling from the plane? And Dash's expressions and comments, aren't such things found in almost all cartoons?

First off, thanks.

Secondly, yes, it was obvious but again I thought that particular scene is symbolical of what a mother's love is: the ability to stretch so you can keep your kids safe.

About Dash's expressions: Yes, that kind of thing is found in "cartoons" but I was talking about it in terms of the action/comedy/sci-fi/kiddie genre. I don't think even Spy Kids took the effort to add touches like down to earth characterization to make it all relatable and thereby making it more special.

Oh, and correction: I did not see The Incredibles seven times. Just six. Four times in the theater and twice on DVD with one of those times I was listening to the Brad Bird commentary.

[Damien]

Put aside Dogville and The Incredibles. I wanna hear Damien's take on Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle!

I think Harold and Kumar is an honorable addition to the Stoner/Stupid Buddy film sub-genre. It's not quite up there with The Bill and Teds or with the now-legendary Beavis and Butt-head (God, I miss those boys) and it seems the filmmakers may have too self-consciously been aiming to make a movie that would turn into a video cult hit.

It's very shaggy dog but it is mostly genuinely clever and sweet-natured, and the two lead characters are unusual in being basically strait-laced stoners, so they escaped easy characterization and stereotypes. I think the film also very nicely encapsulated common fears of many college- and post-college age guys, especially the (very humorously done) dabbling with gay and homophobic themes, and the mixture of desire, curiosity and fear about the female body. (An extra inside joke is the casting of Neil Patrick Harris as a horn-dog ladies’ man since, at least in New York theatre circles, he is pretty open about gay -- a friend of mine had an affair with him. Plus, I've heard from a couple people that Neil Patricjk is a Gen Y icon.)

[Damien]

I should also point out I, too, loved Before Sunset, Bad Education and Kinsey and very much admired Dogville and The Dreamers. I was also a bit insulted that you think of me as a simpleton because I also happen to love The Incredibles. Apart from that, our assessment of 2004 films are more or less the same give or take a few.

Oh, Irvin, my use of the word "simpleton" was a joke -- as indicated by my use of the smile button icon -- a tongue-in-cheek rejoinder to your humorous assertion that I would find you "crazy" for seeing The Incredibles 7 times. I'd hope you realized that I respect and admire you and your film appreciation a great deal.


Having said that, however, isn't it completely obvious that Helen wouls use her elasticity to save her kids when they're falling from the plane? And Dash's expressions and comments, aren't such things found in almost all cartoons?

As for expectations, I almost never read reviews of films before I see them (and didn't read any for The Incredibles), but when a film is nominated not just for Best Goddamn Cartoon, but Original Screenplay (in lieu of Kinsey !), one can't help but have high expectations and anticipate something really special.

[anonymous1980]

Funny you should mention the auteur status, Sonic, because I was watching the special features of The Incredibles and saw how much of Brad Bird went into it. He directs his animators like he directs actors. The set, the visuals, the action sequences though done by various animators are all guided with his creative hand.

I've always seen The Incredibles as a superhero parody (nearly every superhero/adventure movie cliche are given a poke in the ribs) within a context of a family comedy. It's underlying message of society pressuring people who are different to conform to mediocrity due to poltical correctness ("If everyone's special, no one is."/"If everyone's super, no one will be") has caused some critics to compare it to the works of Ayn Rand (a take which Brad Bird disputes though).

It's depiction of superhero powers as a reflection of their characters and their current stage in life is particularly affecting.. Two particular shots I found affecting is the scene where (SPOILER) Helen and her two kids are falling out of an exploding plane. She sees her kids screaming in fright and she stretches to save them. To me that particular is the essence of a mother's love. What mother wouldn't want that kind of superpower? To be able to stretch her arms around to protect her kids, to be able to turn into a parachute if they fall. She stretches and shapes herself to suit her kids' needs. In the scene where Violet couldn't create force field around the plane, pays off when protects the family from the exploding plane debris in the finale. A moving pay-off to what's essentially an action sequence then punctuated with a laugh by the little boy on the tricycle yelling "That was totally wicked!"

I also loved the way Brad Bird grounded various fantastic elements with relatable, flawed characters and situations. The sequence in which Dash is chased by the Velocipods is a favorite of mine because Bird and his animators took the time to add some character touches. Dash's tumbles, facial expressions, bewilderment and his wide-eyed amazement when he gets to use his superpowers in full-force is a stroke of genius. In a live-action movie that tried this kind of thing wouldn't pay attention to such things. Like when Dash falls and survives he yells "I'm alive! Yes!" or when he hesitates before he punches the henchman. The fact that Bird took the time and effort to add those little touches that made this action sequence 100 times more enjoyable because for me anyway, that's what I would do and how I would react if I was a kid and I was put into that situation. Compare this sequence to that of the Pod Race sequence in The Phantom Menace. Sure both are cool to watch but the The Phantom Menace's action sequence is forgettable because you don't feel much empathy towards Anakin Skywalker as you do for the much more relatable Dash.

A lot of recent Hollywood action movies have tried to do what The Incredibles had finally done. Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies have probably the ones that have done it the closest. I felt The Incredibles took ALL the best elements of a typical summer action blockbuster from James Bond to all the recent comic book adaptations ground them with flawed characters and mundane situations (like typical American suburbia and the typical nuclear family dynamics). This combo, I felt, elevated this film into a higher level than most action blockbusters.

Whoah. I've said way too much. Damien will probably kick my ass anyway. Oh well. I've said my piece. I rest my case.

[Sabin]

How about you start, Sonic. ***1/2, ahead of Million Dollar Baby and not a peep? It's been months, dude.

It's strange. I saw The Incredibles again, liked it, but feel no enthusiasm strong enough to get me in the middle of this debate. I still think very highly of it, even while I wish some of its choices were different (geek/henchmen death bothers me some, would've liked more exposure to a tactile superhero world), but in the end...it's fun. I prefer Monsters, Inc. to both this and Finding Nemo.

[Sonic Youth]

Calling The Incredibles "garbage" is taking things too far. But thank you, Damien, for knocking the overrated Incredibles off its pedestal. I enjoyed The Incredibles for its light entertainment value and basic good-heartedness; at least it's no Shrek. And I appreciate Pixar's attempts at spotlighting their director-creators, giving them auteur status. (Quick! Who directed the last ten Disney films? Shrek? Polar Express? But we all know John Lasseter and Brad Bird.) I'm a huge fan of Pixar's output, but The Incredibles is easily the least of them. I, too, was expecting something far more cutting and layered, but this is just situational comedy, no better or worse than what you might find on network TV.

No matter how sappy and conventional Finding Nemo's storyline could be, it was set in a dazzling universe, ostensibly the perilous ocean as viewed by tiny fish but is really the animators unfettered imaginations. In comparison, The Incredibles feels clamped down. A storyline about superheroes repressing their powers which unfolds in a setting that does nothing to expand the physics of reality had better be aces in the writing department, since it's not going to generate much visual interest for me. But I found it to be a very ordinary mainstream film.

But Damien, you don't even want to give a shout out to Holly Hunter's wonderful voice-over?

Put aside Dogville and The Incredibles. I wanna hear Damien's take on Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle!

[anonymous1980]

I could also write a scholarly dissertation on why I think The Incredibles is a near-perfect masterpiece and probably the best superhero movie ever made. I'm way too lazy to do that. I need to focus my energies on trying to finish up a short story and an article that I would submit to a magazine. Not to mention my screenplay. Plus I've got a birthday coming up. Besides, I love PIXAR's works so far.

Irvin, some time when you have some time, I'd love to see not necessarily a dissertation on The Incredibles, but simply your thoughts on why it's a major work. From the reviews I was expecting the equivalent of maybe Sirk's No Room For The Groom, and I was sorely disappointed. I'd loved to know what oher people are adoring about this film that I'm missing.

Well, Damien, I have an article, a short story and a screenplay in my head waiting to be written so a more detailed defense of The Incredibles would have to wait.

Although I have to say, your disappointed towards the film is because you probably expected something. I always try to see a movie with lowered expectations or no expectations at all. It's not always successful of course, but I always try to watch a film without preconceived notions or expectations so I can assess and judge the film for what it is or what it tries to be, not what I expected it to be. This, compounded with your bias against animated films, would make your disappointment and hatred understandable.

If 'major work' you mean a landmark of cinema which should be viewed and studied by film students and film scholars: No, I do not think The Incredibles is a groudbreaking, landmark artistic achievement in the pantheon of The Battleship Potemkin or Citizen Kane but it is still a very good movie in it's own right and it won a place in my heart. I don't want to call it a guilty pleasure because I feel no guilt in loving it.

I should also point out I, too, loved Before Sunset, Bad Education and Kinsey and very much admired Dogville and The Dreamers. I was also a bit insulted that you think of me as a simpleton because I also happen to love The Incredibles. Apart from that, our assessment of 2004 films are more or less the same give or take a few.

All in all, Damien, I truly do respect your opinions. I look up to you and try to read what you have to say. I gave Skin Deep a chance because of your high opinion on it. So please be kind to me. Thank you.



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[Damien]

I could also write a scholarly dissertation on why I think The Incredibles is a near-perfect masterpiece and probably the best superhero movie ever made. I'm way too lazy to do that. I need to focus my energies on trying to finish up a short story and an article that I would submit to a magazine. Not to mention my screenplay. Plus I've got a birthday coming up. Besides, I love PIXAR's works so far.

Irvin, some time when you have some time, I'd love to see not necessarily a dissertation on The Incredibles, but simply your thoughts on why it's a major work. From the reviews I was expecting the equivalent of maybe Sirk's No Room For The Groom, and I was sorely disappointed. I'd loved to know what so many other people are adoring about this film that I'm missing.



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[anonymous1980]

I guess I must be crazy then. I just saw it for the seventh time on DVD.

I wouldn't necessarily say you were crazy. Maybe a simpleton, and definitely someone with too much time on his hands (and not enough worthwhile DVDs on hand to watch). :p

You're right about the latter. I'm in-between jobs right now.

I could also write a scholarly dissertation on why I think The Incredibles is a near-perfect masterpiece and probably the best superhero movie ever made. I'm way too lazy to do that. I need to focus my energies on trying to finish up a short story and an article that I would submit to a magazine. Not to mention my screenplay. Plus I've got a birthday coming up. Besides, I love PIXAR's works so far.

I have the Pink Panther DVD set and The Rules of the Game Criterion Collection on my collection, if that's any consolation.

I saw Dogville a couple of years ago with very little information beforehand other than it's a Lars Von Trier-Nicole Kidman film. I was taken in by surprise by it's unusual style and a rather grim, shocker of an ending. Never for a minute did I thought of it as anti-American.



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[The Original BJ]

I don't mean to turn this into the Dogville debate thread, but, I too, loved the film. I know that von Trier is a polarizing filmmaker and an acquired taste, but the worst film of the past 35 years!? I can understand that some might think it's a train wreck, but if it is a train wreck, you've got to admit it's an absolutely fascinating one. All I know is I couldn't look away for the entire running time and it stayed in my head for months. (I'd be glad to go into it in more detail on another thread, but I don't know if this one's the place.) I accept that many will think Dogville is a failure, and even a colossal one, but a film this singular and daring deserves better than to be lumped with the loads of cinematic garbage of the past three and a half decades. But, hey, I liked The Blair Witch Project too, so different strokes, I guess . . .

[Damien]

I guess I must be crazy then. I just saw it for the seventh time on DVD.

I wouldn't necessarily say you were crazy. Maybe a simpleton, and definitely someone with too much time on his hands (and not enough worthwhile DVDs on hand to watch). :p

Oh and I thought you hated Dogville, Damien (or am I thinking of Johnny Guitar?)

Johnny Guitar hated Dogville.

I just saw it two weeks ago and was fascinated by it -- thought it was a corrosive examination of human beings as petty, scared, spiteful and, ultimately, evil things, and was mesmerized by its righteous anger and Old Testament wrath. Von Trier’s presentation of a very particular world view is quite terrifying.

[Big Magilla]

Oh and I thought you hated Dogville, Damien (or am I thinking of Johnny Guitar?)

I hated it. Ranks with The Blair Witch Project as the worst film of the last 35 years.



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