The Official Review Thread of 2007

[flipp525]

Anyway, yes of course the girls in these films can't have an abortion because then there'd be no story. But in Knocked Up it makes absolutely no sense that THIS woman with THIS man wouldn't have one. Or at least not have a really convincing reason why she shouldn't. And that makes it conservative propaganda.

That's exactly it, Steph. There was no compelling enough reason offered as to why she would opt to have that loser's child. An abortion in that position was like a no-brainer if I've ever heard of one.

On the casting note, I forgot to mention that the idiot "Danger" who mucked up Million Dollar Baby, is one of the most unappealing actors I've ever seen. His shtick (which he doesn't change movie to movie) is just so lame.

Oh, and as far as Katherine Heigl being some prototypically hot, bodacious, blonde chick, am I the only one who thinks she's not really all that attractive? Obviously, she's not my thing, but I just think there's something weird about her mouth and teeth. I'll probably have the "gross conceptualization of beauty in America" police sicced on me, but if she was cast as the truly unattainable "hot chick" stereotype, well, I wasn't really buying that either.

Trying to inject an abortion debate into this thread is like bringing up the issue of the rising price of oil in a There Will Be Blood thread.



Edited By flipp525 on 1201268294

[Uri]

I used my prerogative to choose not to see Knocked Up, but speaking about social hierarchy - isn't the whole idea of this movie, hence its title, that by getting pregnant the woman in it, since she doesn't have any real choice, somehow becomes damaged goods, her pitiful position downgrades her significantly and equals her status to that of the guy?

[anonymous1980]

I didn't like Knocked Up, I have yet to see Juno and I'm not really interested in an abortion debate so I'm not gonna argue.

[Steph2]

Steph2: Isn't choosing not to have an abortion part of being pro-choice?

Yes, that's why I fucking called it an "abortion" playlist, not a "pro-choice" playlist. See how that works? If I wanted middling semantics, I'd just watch the Democratic Debates. I wasn't trying to leave room from ambiguity - I'm pro-abortion.

Anyway, yes of course the girls in these films can't have an abortion because then there'd be no story. But in Knocked Up it makes absolutely no sense that THIS woman with THIS man wouldn't have one. Or at least not have a really convincing reason why she shouldn't. And that makes it conservative propaganda. (and it's also why so many men liked this film) I found Juno more plausible (in a way) and ultimately, a much more satisfying film.

Plus I just hated all the characters in Knocked Up. I kept wishing all their mothers had opted for abortions.

(By the way, my favorite abortion line comes from South Park: "Unlike this fetus, I was not born yesterday.")

[Sonic Youth]

Yes, of course you're both right. But it's the sort of topic that tailspins into an ugly imbroglio.

Anyway, I haven't seen Juno but there's a reason why these characters choose not to have an abortion. Terminate the pregnancy, terminate the screenplay.

In comedies, full-term gestation makes for great crescendos and awsome structure.

[Penelope]

Isn't choosing not to have an abortion part of being pro-choice?

Oh, you've done it now......

Well, he's right, but not in the way that he probably thinks he's right (or, perhaps, he does): of course a woman should be able to choose to not have an abortion, but she should also be able to choose to have an abortion--and not have the government dictate the choice for her.

[flipp525]

Steph2: Isn't choosing not to have an abortion part of being pro-choice?

Oh, god...

[Sonic Youth]

Isn't choosing not to have an abortion part of being pro-choice?

Oh, you've done it now......

[anonymous1980]

So, I'm working on my Knocked Up review and I keep thinking: When are we going to get a movie about a not-so-pretty woman getting together with a handsome fellow?

Hairspray.

Granted, Nikki Blonsky is, in fact, beautiful. But she's not a skinny, big-breasted blonde which is what defines 'beautiful' in movie terms and she still gets the handsome boy.

Steph2: Isn't choosing not to have an abortion part of being pro-choice?

[Damien]

Oh and in keeping with what I thought these girls SHOULD have done, I'm creating an "Abortion" playlist on my ipod. Yes, that's right. Music to nix your fetus to. First track: Drowning Pool's "Bodies." Suggestions are welcome.

Cyndi Lauper's "Sally's Pigeons"

Michelle Shocked's "Prodigal Daughter"

Devo's "Freedom of Choice"

Janis Joplin's "Bye Bye Baby"

And just to mix it up, you can add Seals and Crofts' "Unborn Child" -- an anti-choice ditty and one of the worst songs ever written

[Sonic Youth]

I agree with 99% of everything you say, Johnny, save for this:

yet it's Heigl who seems to be all alone and tethered and nothing in the film indicates that this is weird, or that any characters see anything weird about it.

There are people in the world who are loners, and it's not weird or a bad thing: we just prefer to be by ourselves. Obviously, the movie never makes much of this, but then that's par for the course.

I'd speculate there are more loners in LA than we'd think. How many young people leave their hometowns, their families and friends behind to work double-time in the hope of making it big in Hollywood, with relatively little time for a grouded support system? I don't remember the details in "Knocked Up", so I don't know if it applies. Did she grow up in LA, or did her sister take her in?

Older women/younger men... there's "White Castle" and "How Stella Got Her Groove Back."

[ITALIANO]

Let's not forget Ettore Scola's Passione d'amore.

Nice that you remember it... So was it distributed commercially in the US?

There are countless movies where unattractive or older women are seduced by handsome (and often younger) men - though usually for reasons which don't have anything to do with love (the fact that men - straight or gay - are generally the writers of these movies can partly explain this).

There are some exceptions, though - Passione d'amore being the most extreme of course (Valeria D'Obici even today complains that that movie limited her career, but she's unforgettable in it). Bertrand Blier's Trop Belle Pour Toi (a beautiful title by the way, especially in French) is all about Gerard Depardieu slowly falling in love with plain Josiane Balasko despite being married to glamorous Carole Bouquet. And the best example is probably Fassbinder's masterpiece Fear Eats the Soul, with that moving relationship between a simple, overweight 60 year old woman and an Arab man twenty years younger - love has rarely been portrayed on screen with such honesty and raw tenderness. It's a quietly heartbreaking movie.

But to get back to more familiar territory, there's always The Way We Were... (Yes, I know, Streisand is a movie star, so maybe we shouldn't include her here, but unlike for example Bette Davis before or Meryl Streep later - great and not conventionally beautiful actresses - looks DID play a role in Streisand's films).



Edited By ITALIANO on 1201223859

[flipp525]

Oh and in keeping with what I thought these girls SHOULD have done, I'm creating an "Abortion" playlist on my ipod. Yes, that's right. Music to nix your fetus to. First track: Drowning Pool's "Bodies." Suggestions are welcome.

"Icicle" by Tori Amos
"Flush" by Mötley Crüe
"Abort Your Babies" by Serpent



Edited By flipp525 on 1201211237

[Johnny Guitar]

Of course you're quite right, Penelope. I didn't mean to imply that "loners are weird."

What is weird is that Heigl is not presented or cast as someone who likes or chooses to be alone, but who nevertheless is relatively alone--with the exception of her family. That is, her status as a (relative) loner comes more through narrative laziness (and an attendent, deep-seated sexism, I think) than any kind of character development.

[Steph2]

That's awesome Johnny Guitar and I couldn't agree more! I especially like the class reality you sneak in there. (returning to the middle class life he grew up with) Movies like Knocked Up drive me nuts - they're basically this straight male fantasia (a certain kind of straight male of course, not all of you) about how cool it is to remain a bumble-fuck adolescent and still nail the hot/financially stable girl.

I'm so glad this horrible screenplay wasn't nominated at the Oscars. Say what you will about Juno, but it's still MUCH better (and less offensive) than Knocked Up.

Oh and in keeping with what I thought these girls SHOULD have done, I'm creating an "Abortion" playlist on my ipod. Yes, that's right. Music to nix your fetus to. First track: Drowning Pool's "Bodies." Suggestions are welcome.