Best DVD Week Ever

[criddic3]

I have never said that I support the amendment. I don't think we need an amendment. I do support Civil Unions, as a way of providing a peaceful solution to the debate over how to recognize gay couples in American society.

I support President Bush on many issues. I don't think he hates gay people, but like many straight men probably doesn't fully understand what it really means to be gay. This doesn't make him evil or necessarily discrimatory by nature, as he has promoted openly gay persons to government positions and has reached out to the Log Cabin Republicans on occassion.

He is a great leader much of the time. Standing by his word and his principles, especially in the War on Terror, he has impressed me as a president. I had a feeling that he would back in 2000 when he ran for the Republican nomination. And I wasn't the only one. Former President Bill Clinton has said that when he heard Bush speaking about Compassionate Conservatism, he called Vice President Gore and told him to watch out because "this guy could beat us." (as said during the opening of his library, and other times)

I am among the few who has been steadfastly supportive since that time, and I remain so because I am convinced of his conviction and desire to do right by his country. Many people disagree with his approach, with his strategy in Iraq and with several of his policies. I appreciate and respect this. But I'm not self-loathing, by any means.

My sexuality is what it is. If I find a man who is willing to share in my life and who can have a respect for my political views, than I will be happy. There is nothing wrong with having some conservative views or with supporting a strong leader. This also has absolutely nothing to do with who I want to sleep with.

[Damien]

Are you a conservative gay man? Do you have friends who are?

Even if you do, every person deals differently with their sexuality and political views. The kind of description you gave of self-loathing indicates someone who would never, under any circumstances, let people know he was gay (except maybe his lover).

Anyone who would support and embrace those in power who consider him a second class person and not only want to deny him equal rights but codify that denial in the U.S. constitution is by definition self-loathing.

No, neither I nor any of my friends are conservatives queers because neither I nor any of my friends are self-loathing.

[Damien]

It does seem a bit difficult (I was going to say hard, but that seemed too much like a pun) to fathom that Clift and his partner would keep at it once Sinatra entered the room and that the other man would remain in an aroused state until Sinatra pulled Clift off of him, but, hey, it sure fits in with a discussion of Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.

Hey, if Monty Clift had been going down on me, I wouldn't let the rude intrusion of Frank Sinatra interrupt the proceedings either.

And then there is that singular fetish of Sinatra's of eating scrambled eggs for breakfast off the naked chests of Las Vegas hookers . . .

[Reza]

Speaking of an ''erect penis'', has anyone read ''Brando Unzipped'' by Darwin Porter?

It seems Brando used his ''noble tool'' on just about every male and female star to come out of Hollywood. The book gives details of Brando's antics in bed. After reading a few pages it all seems rather absurd as the man does nothing but fornicate morning, noon and night. It's a wonder he found time to appear on stage and on the big screen.

[Big Magilla]

My, how this thread has gone off in so many different directions all at once.

I never heard the Sinatra/Clift told story in such graphic terms. It does seem a bit difficult (I was going to say hard, but that seemed too much like a pun) to fathom that Clift and his partner would keep at it once Sinatra entered the room and that the other man would remain in an aroused state until Sinatra pulled Clift off of him, but, hey, it sure fits in with a discussion of Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.

I've always found Sinatra a mixed bag. A better dramatic actor than he's usually given credit for, but a chore to watch in many of his comedic roles. He had the best phrasing of any male singer, but was often sloppy with the lyrics, substituting lines which only got worse as he got older. It really irks me that his bastardized version of New York, New York, not Liza Minnelli's difinitive version, is the one most people are familiar with.

As a human being, he was mean, nasty and vindictive. I would love to see Mia Farrow, Kathryn Crosby and Elizabeth Taylor talk about him for an hour on Larry King.

Eric, thanks for the link. I love reading your reviews even when I don't agree with them. I saw Beyond the Valley of the Dolls only once about ten or twelve years ago. While it struck me as a better film than the one it spoofs, I found it to be only mildly amusing. I am looking forward to watching it again.

I do have an enduring affection for the other film you mention, Myra Breckinridge, being one of only a handlful of people who actually saw the damn thing when it first came out. Gotta love Rex Reed's spoof of Ronald Reagan's line from Kings Row and Mae West's immortal chirping of "Aren't you going to give me a ticket to the policeman's ball, or is it the firemen who have the balls in this town?"

[Penelope]

criddic, I've heard the Sinatra/Clift story several times, it's very well known.

[Eric]

What, no Beyond the Valley of the Dolls?

Got that one for free.

[criddic3]

Frank Sinatra declared himself forever indebted to Montgomery Clift for working with him on his performance as Maggio in From Here To Eternity, at a time, of course, when Sinatra's career was at a low point. Because of Clift's guidance and support, Sinatra said Monty would be a friend he would always love and cherish. Then one night at a party at his house, Sinatra walked into a bedroom and saw Montgomery Clift going down on another guy. Enraged, Mr. Sinatra pulled Clift off the erect penis and ordered him out of his home, and never spoke to him again.

-- Damien

Where did that story come from?

Frank Sinatra had his temper. I think that is indisputable. Yet he worked tirelessly on behalf of civil rights from the early forties on. He seemed to have a double-sided nature, alternately kind and gentle, and then on a dime could be very nasty. As you say, he was a human being. We all have moments where we say or do things we probably shouldn't. He was just prone to rather dramatic versions of such incidents. Don't know if I really believe the story you posted, though. It's easy to see a tough, heterosexual going overboard after seeing two guys getting on, even in today's world, but I have never read that story before. And I've read and heard plenty of outrageous Sinatra anecdotes through the years.

Not an assumption. A statement of fact.

And you know this how?

Are you a conservative gay man? Do you have friends who are?

Even if you do, every person deals differently with their sexuality and political views. The kind of description you gave of self-loathing indicates someone who would never, under any circumstances, let people know he was gay (except maybe his lover). Someone who would never advocate for equal protection under the law (which I do, although I have mixed feelings about gay marriage as opposed to civil unions -- just a change of name in my opinion, which as I envision it would give everyone what they really want). And someone who is perhaps homophobic himself. Since I am none of those things, I can't be a "self-loathing fag who wishes we were back in pre-Stonewall days."

[Damien]

It's interesting that you assume all Republicans or Bush supporters who might also be gay must be self-loathing.

Not an assumption. A statement of fact.

[Damien]

Frank Sinatra is my all-time favorite singer, and a hero of mine since I was a boy. My only mention of Eydie Gorme and Steve Lawrence (a talented married singing couple) was my description of the time I saw them open for Mr. Sinatra in 1990 for his December 11 kick off of his Diamond Jubilee 75th Birthday tour. It was my birthday present that year, as I had recently discovered Sinatra's music and had become a huge fan. The fact that he also was a solid actor much of the time, and an Oscar winner, makes him relevent to discussions on this board.

Frank Sinatra declared himself forever indebted to Montgomery Clift for working with him on his performance as Maggio in From Here To Eternity, at a time, of course, when Sinatra's career was at a low point. Because of Clift's guidance and support, Sinatra said Monty would be a friend he would always love and cherish.

Then one night at a party at his house, Sinatra walked into a bedroom and saw Montgomery Clift going down on another guy. Enraged, Mr. Sinatra pulled Clift off the erect penis and ordered him out of his home, and never spoke to him again.

Don't get me wrong. I love Sinatra. I have just about every album he ever made, and consider him the second greatest non-classical singer ever, after Johnny Hartman. But as a human being, he was a shi t.

[Damien]

Damien, that doesn't help anything.

I know, but in a cheap moment I couldn't help myself.

[criddic3]

Quote (criddic3 @ June 13 2006,21:54) I own two "gay" themed movies: Get Real and Brokeback Mountain (which I ordered alongside two books on the Bush presidency. I wonder what the amazon,com people must've thought. hehe).

They recognized you as a self-loathing fag who wishes we were back in the pre-Stonewall days when polite society didn't acknowledge or talk about such things.

-- Damien

Sonic's right: That doesn't help. Besides, it's so inaccurate, you have no idea. I'm out to all my friends, co-workers, mother and sister. It's interesting that you assume all Republicans or Bush supporters who might also be gay must be self-loathing.

If you engaged in a discussion about Kurosawa as you do Ronald Reagan or Ron Howard - instead of just mention him in passing - people would see there's another dimension to you.

Well Kurosawa needs less boosting than Ron Howard does on this board. While Howard is nowhere near the film maker that Kurosawa was, he is worthy of some praise. As for Reagan, I just like him that's all. He wasn't that good an actor, but was likable and showed dedication (which occassionally worked in his favor on film).

Frank Sinatra is my all-time favorite singer, and a hero of mine since I was a boy. My only mention of Eydie Gorme and Steve Lawrence (a talented married singing couple) was my description of the time I saw them open for Mr. Sinatra in 1990 for his December 11 kick off of his Diamond Jubilee 75th Birthday tour. It was my birthday present that year, as I had recently discovered Sinatra's music and had become a huge fan. The fact that he also was a solid actor much of the time, and an Oscar winner, makes him relevent to discussions on this board.

I wasn't so much defending myself against your remarks as I was trying to explain that I have a varied range when it comes to film.

[Sonic Youth]

Criddic, I took my statement back so that you wouldn't have to feel defensive.

There's nothing wrong with your tastes. You are who you are. But you have to admit, repeated admiration of Ronald Reagan and Charlton Heston, Ron Howard and Frank Sinatra (and Eydie Gormet and Steve Lawrence!!) and now John Wayne and the politically incorrect Charlie Chan... well, your cultural conservatism fits perfectly with your political conservativism. And it IS amusing.

I know you like a variety of things. But the particular things you choose to highlight above everything else is what draws attention. If you engaged in a discussion about Kurosawa as you do Ronald Reagan or Ron Howard - instead of just mention him in passing - people would see there's another dimension to you.

Damien, that doesn't help anything.

[Damien]

I own two "gay" themed movies: Get Real and Brokeback Mountain (which I ordered alongside two books on the Bush presidency. I wonder what the amazon,com people must've thought. hehe).

They recognized you as a self-loathing fag who wishes we were back in the pre-Stonewall days when polite society didn't acknowledge or talk about such things. In other words, a quintessential Uncle Tom's Cabin Republican.

[criddic3]

Thank you Sonic for noticing the types of films I like. Seriously, though, i enjoy a wide range of films from Hitchcock and Kurosawa to Spielberg and Ang Lee. I own an ecclectic selection of films from Corman's The Intruder to Van Dyke's The Thin Man to Donner's Superman and Cameron's Terminator movies.

Many of my dvds (and cds) consist of Frank Sinatra items, from his concert specials to From Here to Eternity and Suddenly.

I also have such wonderful classics as The Night of the Hunter, Casablanca and Singin' in the Rain.
And newer films like The Lord of the Rings and Gladiator. Many others.

I own two "gay" themed movies: Get Real and Brokeback Mountain (which I ordered alongside two books on the Bush presidency. I wonder what the amazon,com people must've thought. hehe).

Additionally I have a number of boxed sets, including Astaire/Rogers Vol. 1, Kurosawa Samurai Films (from criterion), Godfather trilogy, Indiana Jones trilogy, Back to the Future trilogy, four seasons of Columbo (with no. 5 on the way).

On video I also have Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet (1996), which has yet to be released on dvd. The VHS is widescreen, so I don't mind waiting as much as I would otherwise.

Is this selection typical of the kind of person you think I am? I like to think I'm fairly unique in my choice of films, but maybe I'm not.