1994 Oscar Shouldabeens

1927/28 through 1997
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Post by kaytodd »

WOW! I had to go back to Aug. 7 posts by Magilla and flipp525 to find out where this interesting thread about who should and should not have gotten acting noms for 1994 got so badly off track. Magilla posted something negative about Rob Schneider, flipp responded by saying he is willing to give Schneider a pass because of his recent criticism of Mel Gibson...and off we go!

But it is nice to see a forum with people who are so passionate and willing to say what is on their mind. That is one reason I like coming here.

Anyway, I am with the minority of those who think Nigel Hawthorne was more deserving of a nom than Robbins and I am with the majority who think it was appropriate to nominate Jackson in supporting and Travolta in lead.

Just thought I should say something on topic.
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Post by Sonic Youth »

--criddic3 wrote:As you can see I DID ask for clarification AND I mention this is the wrong thread for this discussion. Days ago!! Tell me again how I'm a liar.

I wasn't talking about THAT!

I was talking about the New Developments thread. Which I made clear.

"And yet it's proven over and over again, as recently as that blatant misquoting of me last night."

"I will not argue with you on this thread anymore. New Developments is where the source of this impasse is."

(That sould have been a hint. Not that one was needed, or so I thought.)




Edited By Big Magilla on 1299640598
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Post by criddic3 »

It wasn't an argument. It was dismissive ad hominum. I actually wrote something far more compelling. Fortunately, I erased it.

I will not argue with you on this thread anymore. New Developments is where the source of this impasse is.

But it should be pointed out that everything criddic just said is a lie. Everything. Especially the part where I "offered no genuine alternative to it, even though [criddic] requested a clarification." Two lies in one sentence.

It's really stunning.

--

criddic3 wrote:
I never said he was racist. I said he was intolerant (please see my original post below). And I never even said he was specifically, I "finger-pointed" his administration (of which, yes, he does set the tone). God, Sonic is right. You really do just manipulate everyone's words, don't you?


"Manipulate" isn't accurate. Everyone interprets what they read or hear, and what I saw in your statements about the administration on this topic was an accusation of racism and intolerance. When someone says that the adminstration (and by explicit extension the President) has bred a "culture of intolerance," how is a reader to interpret that as anything other than an implication of racist/discriminatory attitudes?

I'm sorry to seem so defensive here (not to mention, urging this discussion in the wrong thread), but perhaps a clarification of what you actually meant (if this wasn't your intention) might make this little simpleton understand how his perception was wrong in this case.

As you can see I DID ask for clarification AND I mention this is the wrong thread for this discussion. Days ago!! Tell me again how I'm a liar.
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Post by criddic3 »

of stale talking points that have long been disproved


What's been disproved? All I said was that we tried to use diplomacy with Saddam Hussein, through the UN and through inspectors and that 9/11 served to teach us that we could not continue that way. Are you saying we didn't do any of that? Are you saying he didn't mislead inspectors when they were there. The inspectors themselves were telling us that for years. Talking points, my a--!
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Post by Sonic Youth »

--flipp525 wrote:
--Sonic Youth wrote:I actually wrote something far more compelling. Fortunately, I erased it.

Sonic, I saw your original reply before you erased it. You should keep it on file for another time because I think it was pretty on point.

Maybe, but it would have exascerbated things. I don't think people who want to read about the 1994 Oscar race should have to deal with it.

He's really showing his true colors, though. Can't we have a killfile option here?




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Post by Damien »

--criddic3 wrote:a. It had to do with 9/11 in the sense that we couldn't go on in circles with Saddam Hussein . . .

The response that begins with the above quote is such a mindless rehash of stale talking points that have long been disproved that I'm returning to the one sensible stance: that of not responding to criddic (and why I so frequently veer away from that stance I'll never know; hopefully I won't again).


criddic, you are just willful in your ignorance.




Edited By Big Magilla on 1299640568
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Post by flipp525 »

Sonic Youth wrote:I actually wrote something far more compelling. Fortunately, I erased it.
Sonic, I saw your original reply before you erased it. You should keep it on file for another time because I think it was pretty on point.
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Post by Hustler »

I assume that it´s pointless to continue a debate related to the nonsense.
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Post by dws1982 »

In the interest of not becoming okri or some others who have ventured onto this board, beating an argument to death with no intelligence or understanding of the issues, I will end this one with this post.

Oh, dear. Not only is that a smug, pompous, and offensive (offensive to Okri or "some others") statement, it also demonstrates an almost distrubing lack of self-awareness.
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Post by Sonic Youth »

--criddic3 wrote:I will only say that this statement is your least compelling argument yet.

It wasn't an argument. It was dismissive ad hominum. I actually wrote something far more compelling. Fortunately, I erased it.

I will not argue with you on this thread anymore. New Developments is where the source of this impasse is.

But it should be pointed out that everything criddic just said is a lie. Everything. Especially the part where I "offered no genuine alternative to it, even though [criddic] requested a clarification." Two lies in one sentence.

It's really stunning.




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Post by criddic3 »

In the interest of not becoming okri or some others who have ventured onto this board, beating an argument to death with no intelligence or understanding of the issues, I will end this one with this post.
Just shut up. You're an embarrassment.


I will only say that this statement is your least compelling argument yet. Usually you and others here have at least something interesting to respond with. Maybe I touched a nerve, but I don't expect you to acknowledge it. I made good points in my last post. I did not misquote you. You did not like my interpretation of what you said, but offered no genuine alternative to it, even though I requested a clarification. Intelligent people should know that when someone doesn't take their words as they are meant, it is wise to explain where they went wrong. It is therefore unwise to provoke a debate over semantics, name-calling and side-stepping the original reason for the argument in the first place.

I am only an embarrassment to you because you have not made yourself clear. I do not presume to be smarter than anybody here, but I surely know that pretending to have all the answers when you disagree with someone is not the way to express your viewpoint. It betrays your desire to remain ignorant of all other points-of-view, which no amount of academic knowledge can cure.
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Post by Sonic Youth »

--criddic3 wrote:
Because you're not smart enough to hide your dishonest intentions effectively


Maybe that's because I am not trying to hide my intentions. Maybe you think I'm dishonest because you want to believe that.

And yet it's proven over and over again, as recently as that blatant misquoting of me last night.

Just shut up. You're an embarrassment.




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Post by criddic3 »

Because you're not smart enough to hide your dishonest intentions effectively


Maybe that's because I am not trying to hide my intentions. Maybe you think I'm dishonest because you want to believe that. Or you have to believe that in order to reject what I have to say.

criddic, just think of all the Iraqis who are dead who were alive when Bush decided to start a war that had nothing to do with 9/11. Or weapons of mass destruction. Or terrorism.


a. It had to do with 9/11 in the sense that we couldn't go on in circles with Saddam Hussein, who created terror in his region and harbored/aided terrorists in his own country. After 9/11 the mentality of failed diplomatic efforts through 10 years was not the way to go.

b. It had to do with the perception around the world that Hussein had huge stockpiles of WMD. Some weapons, with varying degrees of capability, were found in Iraq that had previously been declared nonexistent by Hussein. He lied. What else was he hiding?

c. President Bush has always seen Iraq as a way to position the war in the symbolic heart of the Middle East. He wanted to change the make-up of tyrannical, terror-driven societies. Iraq was a major influence in the region, often helping terrorist groups and seeking deadly weapons to become more powerful. Hussein's evasions of inspectors defies the argument that we should have let inpectors continue their work in Iraq. They were never allowed to do their work, because they'd be misled or turned away from various sites. In addition, Hussein was bribing countries to break down the influence of sanctions, so that he may resume his life-long ambition to obtain weapons and take over much of the Middle East with the intention of possibly attacking us. He said as much through the years, saying that he won the Gulf War or that the war was never finished.

d. It's not a massacre. It's a war. We aren't lining up dozens of Iraqis and killing them. Our forces are fighting alongside Iraqis. Our government is helping Iraqis to form democracy, holding elections and trying to unify the different factions (many of whom are involved in the Iraq Government).
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Post by Damien »

criddic wrote:
People are being massacred daily BECAUSE of his policies? Gee, I don't see that being the case

criddic, just think of all the Iraqis who are dead who were alive when Bush decided to start a war that had nothing to do with 9/11. Or weapons of mass destruction. Or terrorism.
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Post by Hustler »

People are being massacred daily BECAUSE of his policies? Gee, I don't see that being the case

That´s for sure. you don´t see.
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