Well Cabaret is leagues ahead of Jazz. Do watch it again.mlrg wrote:Probably I should. Funny enough, I saw All that Jazz fourteen years earlier and I thought at the time it's was masterpiece. I rewatched it again a couple of years ago and still think the same way.Reza wrote:It wouldn't harm you to give Cabaret another shot. After all four years is a long time. Who knows you may see it with more mature eyes and discover the masterpiece it is.mlrg wrote:Almost for years ago, after watching Cabaret for the first time, I posted in the "Other film discussion forum" my rating fo the film and wrote that I was pretty much unimpressed by the movie as a whole. I felt the musical numbers were ok and Michael York was totally miscast. I was mocked at the time because of my opinion. Four years have gone by and I can barely remember a scene of Cabaret.
Best Picture and Director 1972
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
Probably I should. Funny enough, I saw All that Jazz fourteen years earlier and I thought at the time it's was masterpiece. I rewatched it again a couple of years ago and still think the same way.Reza wrote:It wouldn't harm you to give Cabaret another shot. After all four years is a long time. Who knows you may see it with more mature eyes and discover the masterpiece it is.mlrg wrote:Almost for years ago, after watching Cabaret for the first time, I posted in the "Other film discussion forum" my rating fo the film and wrote that I was pretty much unimpressed by the movie as a whole. I felt the musical numbers were ok and Michael York was totally miscast. I was mocked at the time because of my opinion. Four years have gone by and I can barely remember a scene of Cabaret.
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Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
Some not-in-English films seem only to be available in dubbed versions -- I finally watched Das Boot that way, after much searching for a subtitled version. But I can tell you The Emigrants certainly played the US with subtitles in its 1972/73 run, so it might be worth hunting a little further.The Original BJ wrote:iTunes has both The Emigrants and The New Land for rent, and I rented the former in preparation for this poll, as I have never seen it. But I just noticed the audio for the film is in English, and I feel like that's not necessarily the best way to view a film like this, so I may have to hold off on this year until I can get my hands on a copy of it.
Interestingly, iTunes lists that the audio for its version of The New Land is in Swedish.
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Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
iTunes has both The Emigrants and The New Land for rent, and I rented the former in preparation for this poll, as I have never seen it. But I just noticed the audio for the film is in English, and I feel like that's not necessarily the best way to view a film like this, so I may have to hold off on this year until I can get my hands on a copy of it.
Interestingly, iTunes lists that the audio for its version of The New Land is in Swedish.
Interestingly, iTunes lists that the audio for its version of The New Land is in Swedish.
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
It wouldn't harm you to give Cabaret another shot. After all four years is a long time. Who knows you may see it with more mature eyes and discover the masterpiece it is.mlrg wrote:Almost for years ago, after watching Cabaret for the first time, I posted in the "Other film discussion forum" my rating fo the film and wrote that I was pretty much unimpressed by the movie as a whole. I felt the musical numbers were ok and Michael York was totally miscast. I was mocked at the time because of my opinion. Four years have gone by and I can barely remember a scene of Cabaret.
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
So I think Sabin was right when he wrote that Godfather would do poorly here
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
Almost for years ago, after watching Cabaret for the first time, I posted in the "Other film discussion forum" my rating fo the film and wrote that I was pretty much unimpressed by the movie as a whole. I felt the musical numbers were ok and Michael York was totally miscast. I was mocked at the time because of my opinion. Four years have gone by and I can barely remember a scene of Cabaret.
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Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
I feel like we’ve pre-debated the main 1972 competition in multiple threads over recent years, to the point I have nothing much new to say. As to the year in general…
Like Magilla, I was surprised that NY Critics’ winner Cries and Whispers wasn’t given a token LA release to make it eligible. This began a three-year streak of NY winners being carried over to the next calendar year (the last of which bit Steven Spielberg on the ass). Of the films that were eligible, my main miss would be Slaughterhouse-Five, a surprisingly nimble screen translation of Vonnegut. Tokyo Story wasn’t even on the radar, to my memory; it’s obviously a great film, but the years-later release is problematic (as it is for Limelight, for me). I can’t say I’ve ever viewed The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeioisie as up to the level critics have claimed. To me, it’s vaguely similar to The Exterminating Angel but overall not as interesting, and nowhere near the achievement the then-recent Belle du Jour or Tristana were.
When the best picture nominees were announced, a number of us did a double-take. Where was the awful entry -- the Hello, Dolly!/Airport/Nicholas and Alexandra, to foul the slate? These nominees were all so…well…respectable. And The Poseidon Adventure was hanging right out there, to fill the crud slot. Could this be a sign the Academy was adjusting to the new Hollywood world? Not without some burps in the years ahead, but, on the whole, yes.
Not that all contenders here were great. Sleuth was a minor piece of work onstage – a one-twist mystery (though that twist was a corker) – and it played pretty much that way on film, despite strong performances. It seems an odd candidate for lone director, given that it’s such a talky effort; the nomination probably had a lot to do with years of affection for Mankiewcz. But it’s worth noting how successfully Mankiewicz used the house and grounds visually – he almost made them a character in the piece, keeping it from feeling stage-bound. Not a necessary nomination, but not a terrible one.
A friend of mine (who’s black) said he thought Sounder was nominated because, in an era of Sweet Sweetback’s Baadassss Song, it was such a nice, sedate, unthreatening black movie. It’s true it’s not an especially bold or potent effort. But tactful and sensitive and, all right, nice isn’t the worst thing in the world. Sounder is a thoughtful, very well-acted movie, focused on characters till then normally seen as supporting roles in someone else’s story. It wasn’t Roots, but it was something then fresh, and, compared to what might have replaced it (i.e., The Poseidon Adventure), a masterpiece.
The nomination for The Emigrants caught me completely off-guard. Liv Ullmann’s Globe win had made her a likely best actress candidate, but the film/director nods came as major surprise. And what a nice one. Troell’s epic (especially in combination with The New Land) represented one of the strongest chronicles of the emigrant/immigrant experience we’d then seen – letting us see both what the characters left behind and what they found when they got to America. The two films together represent a major undertaking, and the nominations are well deserved.
Deliverance had some script issues – a bit too much mystical mumbo-jumbo about needing to explore the river – but it had a really gripping narrative, with characters making what seemed rational decisions along the way yet somehow ending in the clutches of a nightmare. Burt Reynolds had the bulk of the bum dialogue, but Jon Voight, Ronny Cox and Ned Beatty were all very strong (Beatty a lot more impressive than in his nominated work), and Vilmos Zsigmond’s cinematography was hugely evocative (can’t believe he wasn’t nominated, especially given what was). The film isn’t quite at the level of the big two, but it’s powerful filmmaking, easily deserving of both nods here.
Which brings us to the behemoths, and I’m serious that I’m pretty tired of talking about either of them, especially in competition with one another. To state my case briefly: The Godfather is an engrossing, beautifully detailed classical piece of filmmaking. Coppola took trashy source material, drilled down to its resonant core, and made a powerful epic that’s as much about family as it is about organized crime. I never felt the movie re-invented the wheel, the way some critics did. But I think it’s an excellent piece of film-making, and it’s one of the more distinguished best picture winners.
But Cabaret was, for me, one of the great film-going experiences of my lifetime. Like The Godfather, it had unlikely source material: not because Hal Prince’s stage production wasn’t good, but because it was so determinedly theatrical it seemed impossible to recapture on film. Bob Fosse somehow not only kept Prince’s concepts intact, he expanded them to create a wholly cinematic film that, for me, DID re-invent the wheel. I felt like many did about Citizen Kane in 1941: that it expanded my idea of what movies could be (let alone musicals). Every moment, every shot felt freshly imagined – the opening number, where Liza Minnelli is introduced in practically a throwaway shot; the gorgeous Liza-in-blue-light Maybe This Time; the growing-in-horror beer garden rendition of Tomorrow Belongs to Me (with the almost subliminal super-imposition of Joel Grey’s smirking face); the cross-cut collage of Liza’s decision on Brian and the baby. The film is deservedly remembered for its smashingly staged numbers (Money, Money and Two Ladies are particularly memorable), but it simultaneously exists as a compelling drama, treating topics then considered on-the-edge, like transvestitism and bisexuality, with a completely casual, grown-up eye. From the day I saw it – and in multiple re-viewings over the years—I’ve found the film a landmark of invention, and for me it easily deserves the best picture and director prizes for this year.
That said: Sabin, I don’t know why you’d expect The Godfather to do poorly here. It’s always finished well in various rankings we've done. It’s certainly true that a few, like me, have loudly advocated for Cabaret over the years, but, as Okri implies, those who vote and don’t speak here seem to have long favored The Godather.
Like Magilla, I was surprised that NY Critics’ winner Cries and Whispers wasn’t given a token LA release to make it eligible. This began a three-year streak of NY winners being carried over to the next calendar year (the last of which bit Steven Spielberg on the ass). Of the films that were eligible, my main miss would be Slaughterhouse-Five, a surprisingly nimble screen translation of Vonnegut. Tokyo Story wasn’t even on the radar, to my memory; it’s obviously a great film, but the years-later release is problematic (as it is for Limelight, for me). I can’t say I’ve ever viewed The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeioisie as up to the level critics have claimed. To me, it’s vaguely similar to The Exterminating Angel but overall not as interesting, and nowhere near the achievement the then-recent Belle du Jour or Tristana were.
When the best picture nominees were announced, a number of us did a double-take. Where was the awful entry -- the Hello, Dolly!/Airport/Nicholas and Alexandra, to foul the slate? These nominees were all so…well…respectable. And The Poseidon Adventure was hanging right out there, to fill the crud slot. Could this be a sign the Academy was adjusting to the new Hollywood world? Not without some burps in the years ahead, but, on the whole, yes.
Not that all contenders here were great. Sleuth was a minor piece of work onstage – a one-twist mystery (though that twist was a corker) – and it played pretty much that way on film, despite strong performances. It seems an odd candidate for lone director, given that it’s such a talky effort; the nomination probably had a lot to do with years of affection for Mankiewcz. But it’s worth noting how successfully Mankiewicz used the house and grounds visually – he almost made them a character in the piece, keeping it from feeling stage-bound. Not a necessary nomination, but not a terrible one.
A friend of mine (who’s black) said he thought Sounder was nominated because, in an era of Sweet Sweetback’s Baadassss Song, it was such a nice, sedate, unthreatening black movie. It’s true it’s not an especially bold or potent effort. But tactful and sensitive and, all right, nice isn’t the worst thing in the world. Sounder is a thoughtful, very well-acted movie, focused on characters till then normally seen as supporting roles in someone else’s story. It wasn’t Roots, but it was something then fresh, and, compared to what might have replaced it (i.e., The Poseidon Adventure), a masterpiece.
The nomination for The Emigrants caught me completely off-guard. Liv Ullmann’s Globe win had made her a likely best actress candidate, but the film/director nods came as major surprise. And what a nice one. Troell’s epic (especially in combination with The New Land) represented one of the strongest chronicles of the emigrant/immigrant experience we’d then seen – letting us see both what the characters left behind and what they found when they got to America. The two films together represent a major undertaking, and the nominations are well deserved.
Deliverance had some script issues – a bit too much mystical mumbo-jumbo about needing to explore the river – but it had a really gripping narrative, with characters making what seemed rational decisions along the way yet somehow ending in the clutches of a nightmare. Burt Reynolds had the bulk of the bum dialogue, but Jon Voight, Ronny Cox and Ned Beatty were all very strong (Beatty a lot more impressive than in his nominated work), and Vilmos Zsigmond’s cinematography was hugely evocative (can’t believe he wasn’t nominated, especially given what was). The film isn’t quite at the level of the big two, but it’s powerful filmmaking, easily deserving of both nods here.
Which brings us to the behemoths, and I’m serious that I’m pretty tired of talking about either of them, especially in competition with one another. To state my case briefly: The Godfather is an engrossing, beautifully detailed classical piece of filmmaking. Coppola took trashy source material, drilled down to its resonant core, and made a powerful epic that’s as much about family as it is about organized crime. I never felt the movie re-invented the wheel, the way some critics did. But I think it’s an excellent piece of film-making, and it’s one of the more distinguished best picture winners.
But Cabaret was, for me, one of the great film-going experiences of my lifetime. Like The Godfather, it had unlikely source material: not because Hal Prince’s stage production wasn’t good, but because it was so determinedly theatrical it seemed impossible to recapture on film. Bob Fosse somehow not only kept Prince’s concepts intact, he expanded them to create a wholly cinematic film that, for me, DID re-invent the wheel. I felt like many did about Citizen Kane in 1941: that it expanded my idea of what movies could be (let alone musicals). Every moment, every shot felt freshly imagined – the opening number, where Liza Minnelli is introduced in practically a throwaway shot; the gorgeous Liza-in-blue-light Maybe This Time; the growing-in-horror beer garden rendition of Tomorrow Belongs to Me (with the almost subliminal super-imposition of Joel Grey’s smirking face); the cross-cut collage of Liza’s decision on Brian and the baby. The film is deservedly remembered for its smashingly staged numbers (Money, Money and Two Ladies are particularly memorable), but it simultaneously exists as a compelling drama, treating topics then considered on-the-edge, like transvestitism and bisexuality, with a completely casual, grown-up eye. From the day I saw it – and in multiple re-viewings over the years—I’ve found the film a landmark of invention, and for me it easily deserves the best picture and director prizes for this year.
That said: Sabin, I don’t know why you’d expect The Godfather to do poorly here. It’s always finished well in various rankings we've done. It’s certainly true that a few, like me, have loudly advocated for Cabaret over the years, but, as Okri implies, those who vote and don’t speak here seem to have long favored The Godather.
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
I do have a copy of The Emigrants (DVD rip) in case you are interestedPrecious Doll wrote:
I saw The Emigrants over 20 years ago on TV in a dubbed version. Both it and The New Land (it's sequel which I have never seen) seem to have become virtually impossible to see since then. They have been long rumoured to be coming some time in the future in fully restored versions by Criterion. Hope it turns out to be true.
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Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
I had The Emigrants and The New Land on Laserdisc in the 1990s, which I was able to copy over to DVD when I had the equipment that allowed me to do so. I had seen The Emigrants in the theatre but hadn't seen The New Land until much later, possibly on TV.Precious Doll wrote:I ashamed to admit that I have always gotten Jan Troell and Bo Widerberg mixed up.
I saw The Emigrants over 20 years ago on TV in a dubbed version. Both it and The New Land (it's sequel which I have never seen) seem to have become virtually impossible to see since then. They have been long rumoured to be coming some time in the future in fully restored versions by Criterion. Hope it turns out to be true.
My personal favourite Jan Troell film a guilty pleasure, 1979's Hurricane.
I forgot Troell directed the 1979 version of The Hurricane which I liked even less than Zandy's Bride. Maybe I should give that one another try as well.
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Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
I had no idea Jan Troell still had a career until I looked him up on IMDb. The last thing I saw of his was 1974's Zandy's Bride which I didn't like but probably ought to re-visit if it's ever released on DVD. His 2008 film, Everlasting Moments looks interesting but there are complaints on IMDb that the English subtitles on the DVD are too small.Reza wrote:I'm amazed that Fosse is trailing here and Troell appears to have received votes for his career instead of for The Emigrants.
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Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
I ashamed to admit that I have always gotten Jan Troell and Bo Widerberg mixed up.
A number of Bo Widerberg films are coming to DVD later this year which will help to fill a few gaps for me.
I saw The Emigrants over 20 years ago on TV in a dubbed version. Both it and The New Land (it's sequel which I have never seen) seem to have become virtually impossible to see since then. They have been long rumoured to be coming some time in the future in fully restored versions by Criterion. Hope it turns out to be true.
My personal favourite Jan Troell film a guilty pleasure, 1979's Hurricane.
I voted for Cabaret and Fosse, though my personal 1972 favourite is the little seen Savage Messiah by Ken Russell, which like Cabaret has held up very well 40 years later.
A number of Bo Widerberg films are coming to DVD later this year which will help to fill a few gaps for me.
I saw The Emigrants over 20 years ago on TV in a dubbed version. Both it and The New Land (it's sequel which I have never seen) seem to have become virtually impossible to see since then. They have been long rumoured to be coming some time in the future in fully restored versions by Criterion. Hope it turns out to be true.
My personal favourite Jan Troell film a guilty pleasure, 1979's Hurricane.
I voted for Cabaret and Fosse, though my personal 1972 favourite is the little seen Savage Messiah by Ken Russell, which like Cabaret has held up very well 40 years later.
"I want cement covering every blade of grass in this nation! Don't we taxpayers have a voice anymore?" Peggy Gravel (Mink Stole) in John Waters' Desperate Living (1977)
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
I'm amazed that Fosse is trailing here and Troell appears to have received votes for his career instead of for The Emigrants.
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
A great year with The Godfather and Cabaret, which are both among my favourite films. My vote goes to The Godfather (that is, my best director vote goes to Coppola; I haven't seen Sounder so I will not vote for best picture).
Re: Best Picture and Director 1972
Don't have a great deal of time to go into details, but I went with The Godfather and Troell. I mainly went with Troell because this is the only chance to honor this great filmmaker (Coppola has another chance coming up just ahead)--and he is a great filmmaker; He's easily, in my opinion, the best filmmaker in this lineup. I'm not sure why he doesn't get the acclaim that many other foreign filmmakers from that era do, but I think he's great.
It's a very solid lineup though, top-to-bottom.
It's a very solid lineup though, top-to-bottom.