I've only seen Duke, but she's a deserving winner. Yes, the performance is a stunt, in a film carefully constructed around it, but what a stunt! Especially considering the actress pulling it was barely a teenager, and had already been playing it on stage. Duke isn't just a well-directed young actress, she's clearly put in the hard yards, understands the physicality of this character and is smart enough to make the grim passages where Keller's disability is used for comic relief double-edged; you see the pain and the frustration bubbling through, and she plays Helen as a girl who knows and aches for something more than she can experience despite never having any empirical knowledge of the alternatives. She wins from me, as well.
My nominees:
1. Patty Duke, The Miracle Worker
2. Lilla Brignone, L'eclisse
3. Hannah Stone, Stark Fear
4. Maidie Norman, What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?
5. Glória Menezes, Keeper of Promises
Best Supporting Actress 1962
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Big Magilla
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Re: Best Supporting Actress 1962
Could that be why she's been ignored for decades already?
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OscarGuy
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Re: Best Supporting Actress 1962
The best way to get her an Honorary Oscar, which she undoubtedly deserves, is to do nothing at all. The Academy is notoriously resistant to pressure and, if anything, such a campaign would probably backfire and she'll be ignored for decades and be dead long before they'd get over it.ksrymy wrote:If there's any way to campaign for an old lady getting something, go to Facebook. That's how Betty White got on SNL.nightwingnova wrote:Wonder where we can start a campaign to give Lansbury an honorary Oscar?
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Best Supporting Actress 1962
If there's any way to campaign for an old lady getting something, go to Facebook. That's how Betty White got on SNL.nightwingnova wrote:Wonder where we can start a campaign to give Lansbury an honorary Oscar?
"Men get to be a mixture of the charming mannerisms of the women they have known." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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nightwingnova
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Re: Best Supporting Actress 1962
Wonder where we can start a campaign to give Lansbury an honorary Oscar?
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Cinemanolis
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Such a difficult year, so hard to choose between Lansbury, Duke and Badham.
Badham is just wonderful, hugely appealing but also plumbing depths of character in a way that is unusual for a child performer. But one does wonder how much of this untrained non-professional actress's performance is Robert Mulligan's, who was a great director of actors. Plus, Phillip Alfprd is every bit as good as Badham, and it seems unfair to reward one and not the other (wjo, inexplicably, wasn't even nominated.)
Strong cases can be made for both Duke and Lansbury. Duke transcends all the broad gestures and sudden movements, using her eyes to express the frustration and eventual hope and love within Helen Keller. Given the nature of the role, it's very surprising to deem the performance understated, but that's exactly what Duke is. In fact, Anne Bancroft is much more mannered.
But I'd probably go with Lansbury, for she took a character that could easily have been cartoonish and created a monster that ia anything but one note and is not without her charms.
Still, I don't mind at all that Patty Duke -- a very underrated actress whose major work other than Miracle Worker occurred on television. And it's cool that she won an Emmy for playing Annie SUllivan in a TV version of The Miracle Worker.
My Own Top 5:
1. Vera Miles in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence
2. Angela Lansbury in The Manchurian Candidate
3. Patty Duke in The Miracle Worker
4. Mary Badham in To Kill A Mockingbird
5. Claire Trevor in Two Weeks In Another Town
Badham is just wonderful, hugely appealing but also plumbing depths of character in a way that is unusual for a child performer. But one does wonder how much of this untrained non-professional actress's performance is Robert Mulligan's, who was a great director of actors. Plus, Phillip Alfprd is every bit as good as Badham, and it seems unfair to reward one and not the other (wjo, inexplicably, wasn't even nominated.)
Strong cases can be made for both Duke and Lansbury. Duke transcends all the broad gestures and sudden movements, using her eyes to express the frustration and eventual hope and love within Helen Keller. Given the nature of the role, it's very surprising to deem the performance understated, but that's exactly what Duke is. In fact, Anne Bancroft is much more mannered.
But I'd probably go with Lansbury, for she took a character that could easily have been cartoonish and created a monster that ia anything but one note and is not without her charms.
Still, I don't mind at all that Patty Duke -- a very underrated actress whose major work other than Miracle Worker occurred on television. And it's cool that she won an Emmy for playing Annie SUllivan in a TV version of The Miracle Worker.
My Own Top 5:
1. Vera Miles in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence
2. Angela Lansbury in The Manchurian Candidate
3. Patty Duke in The Miracle Worker
4. Mary Badham in To Kill A Mockingbird
5. Claire Trevor in Two Weeks In Another Town
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Can I take the contrary position? I like The Manchurian Candidate and Lansbury in it, but to me she doesn't really go beyond what a lot of other actresses would've done. I do prefer her to Meryl Streep in the 2004 version (although I actually think the 2004 version is a better film overall), but I just can't quite get on board with the idea that she's far ahead of the others, at least when we've got two of the greatest child performances ever. (Knight and Ritter are fine but nothing special.)
Between Badham and Duke...I don't know. The interesting thing about Duke to me is that her performance--all of the mannerisms, etc.--seems completely spontaneous. Considering how completely rehearsed it had to have been, it doesn't come across as mannered or forced. Badham was excellent in Mockingbird, very well-directed, a completely winning presence, but I do think she was a lead. I think I'll go with Duke, since she was more supporting than Badham.
My picks:
1- Vera Miles, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
2- Patty Duke, The Miracle Worker
3- Kim Stanley, To Kill a Mockingbird
4- Shelley Winters, Lolita
5- Rosemary Murphy, To Kill a Mockingbird
Edited By dws1982 on 1278463281
Between Badham and Duke...I don't know. The interesting thing about Duke to me is that her performance--all of the mannerisms, etc.--seems completely spontaneous. Considering how completely rehearsed it had to have been, it doesn't come across as mannered or forced. Badham was excellent in Mockingbird, very well-directed, a completely winning presence, but I do think she was a lead. I think I'll go with Duke, since she was more supporting than Badham.
My picks:
1- Vera Miles, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
2- Patty Duke, The Miracle Worker
3- Kim Stanley, To Kill a Mockingbird
4- Shelley Winters, Lolita
5- Rosemary Murphy, To Kill a Mockingbird
Edited By dws1982 on 1278463281
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Big Magilla
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It's not that The Manchurian Candidate was a cult favorite so much that Frank Sinatra, who owned the rights, kept it out of circulation for decades after the Kennedy assassination.
Another reason for Duke's win, which no one has mentioned, is that her performance is so inter-related to Anne Bancroft's that it would seem mean to reward one without rewarding the other. Both were extremely popular winners at the time.
Another reason for Duke's win, which no one has mentioned, is that her performance is so inter-related to Anne Bancroft's that it would seem mean to reward one without rewarding the other. Both were extremely popular winners at the time.
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Mister Tee
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My take is much the same others have already expressed.
Shelley Winters is at her best in Lolita, but is she truly supporting? Not that she'd have been able to crack the overloaded lead actress list.
For me, this Thelma Ritter nod is like Glenn Close's in The Natural -- you have the sense of voters by then so used to writing down her name that they did it by rote. This is a wisp of a part, and she clearly can't compete with a fairly stellar core group of nominees.
Shirley Knight is similarly outmatched. Knight is like Samantha Morton -- two nominations in short sequence, for neither of which she stood a chance of winning.
After that, the field becomes rock-solid, as we have three absolutely indelible, bordering on iconic, performances. I can see the argument that Badham was a lead, though I don't recall the issue being raised at the time. Presumably the fact that she was a child, and that Peck was the courtoom plot's central character, kept people from objecting. In Tatum O'Neal retrospect it seems more a factor -- but I'd argue O'Neal was more dominant in Paper Moon (and, unlike Badham, acted rings around her co-star). In any case, Badham is perfect in this role, and would be a worthy winner...but falls to, in my mind, even worthier choices.
Because the Academy has been such an easy lay over the years for handicapped performances, there's been a tendency among the cognoscenti to dismiss such work entirely as strictly stunt work, not real acting. In some cases -- say, Cruise in Born on the 4th of July -- the argument holds sway. But in cases like Patty Duke in The Miracle Worker, we need to give credit where credit is due: the little kid is sensational in a grueling role. She's miles away from a bad Oscar pick.
But, of course, today most of us would choose Angela Lansbury, for perhaps the greatest role in a thoroughly distinguished career. She's one of the most fascinating, charismatic villainesses in a century of film, and the centerpiece of an American classic. It's a great shame she didn't win, and I wonder if all her other prizes make up for this glaring loss.
As for why she didn't win: I wouldn't credit Duke's TV fame, since her well-remembered series didn't arrive till after the Oscars. She possibly had some Broadway notoriety, back in the days when such a thing actually existed. But I think the main reason was probably that her film was better liked than Lansbury's. Manchurian Candidate was always revered by the hipster class, but that probably worked against it in staid Academy circles, for whom a triumph-over-adversity story like Mircale Worker would have been catnip. Look at the films' other nominations -- Manchurian got editing but nothing else; not even, shockingly, screenplay (where Lolita was deservedly singled out, desipte being ignored otherwise). Miracle Worker, on the other hand, got key writing and directing nods, and probably would have made the best picture list had studio bloc-voting not forced through big behemoths like Mutiny on the Bounty and The Longest Day.
Manchurian's reputation, not only then but for two decades after, was as pretty much a cult favorite. This changed with the 1988 re-release, when, in a far more cynical era, the film seemed utterly in tune with audiences' views of political figures, and became the popular favorite it is today. I think a vote right now, not just here but even in the Academy, would go to Lansbury decisively. But of course we can't go back in time to fix that.
Shelley Winters is at her best in Lolita, but is she truly supporting? Not that she'd have been able to crack the overloaded lead actress list.
For me, this Thelma Ritter nod is like Glenn Close's in The Natural -- you have the sense of voters by then so used to writing down her name that they did it by rote. This is a wisp of a part, and she clearly can't compete with a fairly stellar core group of nominees.
Shirley Knight is similarly outmatched. Knight is like Samantha Morton -- two nominations in short sequence, for neither of which she stood a chance of winning.
After that, the field becomes rock-solid, as we have three absolutely indelible, bordering on iconic, performances. I can see the argument that Badham was a lead, though I don't recall the issue being raised at the time. Presumably the fact that she was a child, and that Peck was the courtoom plot's central character, kept people from objecting. In Tatum O'Neal retrospect it seems more a factor -- but I'd argue O'Neal was more dominant in Paper Moon (and, unlike Badham, acted rings around her co-star). In any case, Badham is perfect in this role, and would be a worthy winner...but falls to, in my mind, even worthier choices.
Because the Academy has been such an easy lay over the years for handicapped performances, there's been a tendency among the cognoscenti to dismiss such work entirely as strictly stunt work, not real acting. In some cases -- say, Cruise in Born on the 4th of July -- the argument holds sway. But in cases like Patty Duke in The Miracle Worker, we need to give credit where credit is due: the little kid is sensational in a grueling role. She's miles away from a bad Oscar pick.
But, of course, today most of us would choose Angela Lansbury, for perhaps the greatest role in a thoroughly distinguished career. She's one of the most fascinating, charismatic villainesses in a century of film, and the centerpiece of an American classic. It's a great shame she didn't win, and I wonder if all her other prizes make up for this glaring loss.
As for why she didn't win: I wouldn't credit Duke's TV fame, since her well-remembered series didn't arrive till after the Oscars. She possibly had some Broadway notoriety, back in the days when such a thing actually existed. But I think the main reason was probably that her film was better liked than Lansbury's. Manchurian Candidate was always revered by the hipster class, but that probably worked against it in staid Academy circles, for whom a triumph-over-adversity story like Mircale Worker would have been catnip. Look at the films' other nominations -- Manchurian got editing but nothing else; not even, shockingly, screenplay (where Lolita was deservedly singled out, desipte being ignored otherwise). Miracle Worker, on the other hand, got key writing and directing nods, and probably would have made the best picture list had studio bloc-voting not forced through big behemoths like Mutiny on the Bounty and The Longest Day.
Manchurian's reputation, not only then but for two decades after, was as pretty much a cult favorite. This changed with the 1988 re-release, when, in a far more cynical era, the film seemed utterly in tune with audiences' views of political figures, and became the popular favorite it is today. I think a vote right now, not just here but even in the Academy, would go to Lansbury decisively. But of course we can't go back in time to fix that.
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Big Magilla
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And I was so careful not to mention vote-splitting in my original post! What I said was voters didn't want to award one over the other and went in a different direction.
Patty Duke didn't originate the role of Helen Keller In The Miracle Worker - Patty McCormack did opposite Teresa Wright in the TV version but she did make it her own opposite Anne Bancroft on stage.
Duke's best known role prior to The Miracle Worker was probably as "Tootie" (Margaret O'Brien's role) in the 1959 TV version of Meet Me in St. Louis with Jane Powell, Murna Loy, Walter Pidgeon, Jeanne Crain, Tab Hunter and Ed Wynn.
Duke's TV series in which she played look-alike cousins was a big hit for three years beginning in September, 1963. Her best work, though, was probably in the mini-series Captains and the Kings in the 70s for which she won one her three Emmys out of ten nominations. She also won one for playing Annie Sullivan in a later TV version of The Miracle Worker.
Edited By Big Magilla on 1278430764
Patty Duke didn't originate the role of Helen Keller In The Miracle Worker - Patty McCormack did opposite Teresa Wright in the TV version but she did make it her own opposite Anne Bancroft on stage.
Duke's best known role prior to The Miracle Worker was probably as "Tootie" (Margaret O'Brien's role) in the 1959 TV version of Meet Me in St. Louis with Jane Powell, Murna Loy, Walter Pidgeon, Jeanne Crain, Tab Hunter and Ed Wynn.
Duke's TV series in which she played look-alike cousins was a big hit for three years beginning in September, 1963. Her best work, though, was probably in the mini-series Captains and the Kings in the 70s for which she won one her three Emmys out of ten nominations. She also won one for playing Annie Sullivan in a later TV version of The Miracle Worker.
Edited By Big Magilla on 1278430764
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The Original BJ
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I agree that Shelley Winters sorely deserved a nomination for Lolita. I saw Kubrick's film right after I'd read Nabokov's novel, and I thought Winters's portrayal of Mrs. Haze was right on the money.
Thelma Ritter barely has a part in Birdman of Alcatraz.
Shirley Knight has a larger role, but I'm not sure she has all that much more to do. For a character who's so central to the film's narrative, I feel like I know barely anything about her.
Mary Badham's amiability and laid-back charm were perfect for the character of Scout Finch. It's a lovely performance...but I'll echo Italiano's question. Isn't this a lead role?
Patty Duke was terrific in The Miracle Worker. Yes, award bodies have often been prone to over-rewarding disabled performances, but that doesn't mean they should be dismissed simply as obvious award-bait, especially when they are as technically impressive and emotionally affecting as Duke's work here. I think her skill in this role is impressive for an actor of any age -- from a child it is astonishing. Her Oscar win was hardly an ignoble choice.
But I voted, as I see most did, for Angela Lansbury's most iconic role, as one of the cinema's great villains. Her Mrs. Iselin ignites the screen from the minute she first appears at the airport until her fantastic final monologue, culminating in that kiss. Who needs an Oscar? Well, I think Lansbury does, and this is certainly the best place to vote for her, for one of the most memorable creations this category has seen.
Edited By The Original BJ on 1278473683
Thelma Ritter barely has a part in Birdman of Alcatraz.
Shirley Knight has a larger role, but I'm not sure she has all that much more to do. For a character who's so central to the film's narrative, I feel like I know barely anything about her.
Mary Badham's amiability and laid-back charm were perfect for the character of Scout Finch. It's a lovely performance...but I'll echo Italiano's question. Isn't this a lead role?
Patty Duke was terrific in The Miracle Worker. Yes, award bodies have often been prone to over-rewarding disabled performances, but that doesn't mean they should be dismissed simply as obvious award-bait, especially when they are as technically impressive and emotionally affecting as Duke's work here. I think her skill in this role is impressive for an actor of any age -- from a child it is astonishing. Her Oscar win was hardly an ignoble choice.
But I voted, as I see most did, for Angela Lansbury's most iconic role, as one of the cinema's great villains. Her Mrs. Iselin ignites the screen from the minute she first appears at the airport until her fantastic final monologue, culminating in that kiss. Who needs an Oscar? Well, I think Lansbury does, and this is certainly the best place to vote for her, for one of the most memorable creations this category has seen.
Edited By The Original BJ on 1278473683
ITALIANO wrote:She won for a simple reason: her role was exactly of the kind the Academy gets crazy about. Plus, she was in a very popular movie (The Manchurian Candidate may be popular now, but was it really so successful back then?). Plus, she was good and impressive in it - and for reasons I don't quite understand (I have seen her in other movies and never found her especially interesting) Americans seem to love Patty Duke - maybe for her work on tv, I don't know. But, again, in The Miracle Worker she's undeniably good.
I think she was pretty much an acclaimed actress (and therefore a name to the voters) as she had created the part of Helen Keller on stage and played it for two years on Broadway. Midway through the production-run her name was placed above the title on the marquee next to that of Anne Bancroft. Both ladies were nominated for the Tony in the lead category with Bancroft winning. So compared to Mary Badham she stood out more when the time came to vote.
Yes, she became a household name in America as a star of her own series, The Patty Duke Show. Despite her terrible illness, which continued to plague her, she gave consistently acclaimed performances in tv films during the 1970s and 1980s
Edited By Reza on 1278421841
Not much to say this time. With Shelley Winters not nominated, the award should certainly go to Angela Lansbury. Absolutely brilliant. But no, she didn't lose because of vote-splitting - Ritter's character, while certainly a possessive mother, was completely different, as was her performance; and if one believes in vote-splitting (I don't) then Patty Duke had another very young actress competing with her, and still she won.
She won for a simple reason: her role was exactly of the kind the Academy gets crazy about. Plus, she was in a very popular movie (The Manchurian Candidate may be popular now, but was it really so successful back then?). Plus, she was good and impressive in it - and for reasons I don't quite understand (I have seen her in other movies and never found her especially interesting) Americans seem to love Patty Duke - maybe for her work on tv, I don't know. But, again, in The Miracle Worker she's undeniably good.
Mary Badham is also good, and of course very well-cast, in To Kill a Mockingbird, but as she is in each single scene of the movie (though, admittedly, more as the writer's point of view than as an active character) her inclusion in this category could be discussed (but we are not that far from Tatum O'Neal/Timothy Hutton territory).
Thelma Ritter has a short but not uninteresting role in The Birdman of Alcatraz, and for once plays against type. But she and Shirley Knight (beautiful to look at but definitely not in an unforgettable role) were clearly fillers this time.
She won for a simple reason: her role was exactly of the kind the Academy gets crazy about. Plus, she was in a very popular movie (The Manchurian Candidate may be popular now, but was it really so successful back then?). Plus, she was good and impressive in it - and for reasons I don't quite understand (I have seen her in other movies and never found her especially interesting) Americans seem to love Patty Duke - maybe for her work on tv, I don't know. But, again, in The Miracle Worker she's undeniably good.
Mary Badham is also good, and of course very well-cast, in To Kill a Mockingbird, but as she is in each single scene of the movie (though, admittedly, more as the writer's point of view than as an active character) her inclusion in this category could be discussed (but we are not that far from Tatum O'Neal/Timothy Hutton territory).
Thelma Ritter has a short but not uninteresting role in The Birdman of Alcatraz, and for once plays against type. But she and Shirley Knight (beautiful to look at but definitely not in an unforgettable role) were clearly fillers this time.