Best Actress 1961
Thank you Mister Tee for wanting me alive. Actually I was referring to later years, when this board will very probably give not one but two Oscars to another "iconic" actress that I can't stand... but a vote for an Italian is always appreciated
Speaking of "iconic"... Maybe Audrey Hepburn's performance in Tiffany IS iconic, but the point is that iconic doesnt necessarily mean good, and many "iconic" performances werent really examples of great acting, but worked on other levels. Hepburn was charming as always, and she's probably never been bad even in bad movies, but it's true that not she isnt Capote's Tiffany, the opposite actually, in many ways, and I dont like this softened, desexualized version. It's a betrayal (not only the character, the general approach too), and even if it's betrayal in the name of Romantic Comedy, still not my kind of things. The movie is loved by many, I know, by too many in fact. It's too lovable, too easy. The performance in itself is pleasant, but not Oscar caliber.
I voted for Loren, partly to prevent Hepburn's victory, partly because I think she really gave a good performance. Not because she's Italian; actually Italians had always a somewhat ambiguous relationship with Loren. Now that she's old, she's celebrated as our "biggest star", and she gets prize after prize, but till, say, twenty years ago, things were different. She had legions of fans of course, especially in the South, but also many critics. Basically, she was liked or loved in Italian movies (those directed by De Sica were big commercial hits, and A Special Day of course), but considered unwatchable in the American ones. And honestly she's not very good in her Hollywood movies, made before or after Two Women. In the Italian movies she's pleasant, very natural, attractive and humorous, and of course, obviously, a star.
(Many years ago, when she was sent to jail, there was little general compassion in Italy. Yet she was only the second Italian, and probably the last, to be sent to prison for THAT crime, and let's face it, it's not such a rare crime in Italy...).
Two Women is considered by everyone (fans and critics alike) to be her best performance, and I agree.
The others were good too. The problem with Geraldine Page isnt her acting, but the movie she's in. Alma is a potentially wonderful, rich character, and Page's performance at times makes you understand why it was such a major triumph on the stage. But the movie is so flat, her John so wooden (and Summer and Smoke MUST have a solid John too), that her effort in the middle of nowhere is more technical than really affecting. But technically it's the best of the five performances.
Speaking of "iconic"... Maybe Audrey Hepburn's performance in Tiffany IS iconic, but the point is that iconic doesnt necessarily mean good, and many "iconic" performances werent really examples of great acting, but worked on other levels. Hepburn was charming as always, and she's probably never been bad even in bad movies, but it's true that not she isnt Capote's Tiffany, the opposite actually, in many ways, and I dont like this softened, desexualized version. It's a betrayal (not only the character, the general approach too), and even if it's betrayal in the name of Romantic Comedy, still not my kind of things. The movie is loved by many, I know, by too many in fact. It's too lovable, too easy. The performance in itself is pleasant, but not Oscar caliber.
I voted for Loren, partly to prevent Hepburn's victory, partly because I think she really gave a good performance. Not because she's Italian; actually Italians had always a somewhat ambiguous relationship with Loren. Now that she's old, she's celebrated as our "biggest star", and she gets prize after prize, but till, say, twenty years ago, things were different. She had legions of fans of course, especially in the South, but also many critics. Basically, she was liked or loved in Italian movies (those directed by De Sica were big commercial hits, and A Special Day of course), but considered unwatchable in the American ones. And honestly she's not very good in her Hollywood movies, made before or after Two Women. In the Italian movies she's pleasant, very natural, attractive and humorous, and of course, obviously, a star.
(Many years ago, when she was sent to jail, there was little general compassion in Italy. Yet she was only the second Italian, and probably the last, to be sent to prison for THAT crime, and let's face it, it's not such a rare crime in Italy...).
Two Women is considered by everyone (fans and critics alike) to be her best performance, and I agree.
The others were good too. The problem with Geraldine Page isnt her acting, but the movie she's in. Alma is a potentially wonderful, rich character, and Page's performance at times makes you understand why it was such a major triumph on the stage. But the movie is so flat, her John so wooden (and Summer and Smoke MUST have a solid John too), that her effort in the middle of nowhere is more technical than really affecting. But technically it's the best of the five performances.
Well, I disagree with you that Deenie's specific situation can be boiled down to general "adolescence", but we'll just hold onto our own equally valid opinions on this particular film.Damien wrote:Anyone who's gone through adolescence has been there. But that doesn't make the film any less ludicrous or Wood's performance less inept.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Yes I, too, discovered that recently.mlrg wrote:I think she was great in "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice"Big Magilla wrote:Natalie Wood's career post-1963 and Love With the Proper Stranger was disappointing at best, embarrassing at worst, but in 1961 she was at the peak of her talent and her popularity. A lot of what she did in Splendor in the Grass and to a lesser extent in West Side Story still speaks to young audiences today.
[quote="flipp525"]
QUOTE
"I love Natalie Wood in Splendor in the Grass. Maybe you have to been where Deenie's been to truly get how much she nails that character."
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Anyone who's gone through adolescence has been there. But that doesn't make the film any less ludicrous or Wood's performance less inept.
Splendor In The Grass is a ridiculously pretentious, overwrought movie about nothing more than raging hormones. A much better film about teenage angst from that period is Paul Wendkos's Because They're Young (even with Dick Clark in it).
Edited By Damien on 1251749463
QUOTE
"I love Natalie Wood in Splendor in the Grass. Maybe you have to been where Deenie's been to truly get how much she nails that character."
===========================
Anyone who's gone through adolescence has been there. But that doesn't make the film any less ludicrous or Wood's performance less inept.
Splendor In The Grass is a ridiculously pretentious, overwrought movie about nothing more than raging hormones. A much better film about teenage angst from that period is Paul Wendkos's Because They're Young (even with Dick Clark in it).
Edited By Damien on 1251749463
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
I think she was great in "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice"Big Magilla wrote:Natalie Wood's career post-1963 and Love With the Proper Stranger was disappointing at best, embarrassing at worst, but in 1961 she was at the peak of her talent and her popularity. A lot of what she did in Splendor in the Grass and to a lesser extent in West Side Story still speaks to young audiences today.
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In 1961 I was in my mid to late teens and working as an usher and/or candy attendant after school and got to see all these performances when they were fresh and recall discussing Oscar choices with both my friends and older people with whom I worked and observed.
Natalie Wood was the choice of most of those in my age group. The older folks were mostly split between Audrey Hepburn and Sophia Loren. I was the only one holding out for Geraldine Page. No one talked about Piper Laurie though almost everyone wanted Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason to win best actor and supporting actor for The Hustler.
Natalie Wood's career post-1963 and Love With the Proper Stranger was disappointing at best, embarrassing at worst, but in 1961 she was at the peak of her talent and her popularity. A lot of what she did in Splendor in the Grass and to a lesser extent in West Side Story still speaks to young audiences today.
I yield to none in my love for Audrey Hepburn but Breakfast at Tiffany's was not her career peak performance, that was the one she gave two years earlier in The Nun's Story. It is, however, a lovely, incandescent performance. It may not be the character Truman Capote wrote, but it's a beautiful piece of work nonetheless. I still get shivers when she sings "Moon River". I can't imagine the film having the lasting impact it has had with anyone else in the role.
Natalie, Audrey and Sophia are all in their way good choices but I still prefer Geraldine Page.
Natalie Wood was the choice of most of those in my age group. The older folks were mostly split between Audrey Hepburn and Sophia Loren. I was the only one holding out for Geraldine Page. No one talked about Piper Laurie though almost everyone wanted Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason to win best actor and supporting actor for The Hustler.
Natalie Wood's career post-1963 and Love With the Proper Stranger was disappointing at best, embarrassing at worst, but in 1961 she was at the peak of her talent and her popularity. A lot of what she did in Splendor in the Grass and to a lesser extent in West Side Story still speaks to young audiences today.
I yield to none in my love for Audrey Hepburn but Breakfast at Tiffany's was not her career peak performance, that was the one she gave two years earlier in The Nun's Story. It is, however, a lovely, incandescent performance. It may not be the character Truman Capote wrote, but it's a beautiful piece of work nonetheless. I still get shivers when she sings "Moon River". I can't imagine the film having the lasting impact it has had with anyone else in the role.
Natalie, Audrey and Sophia are all in their way good choices but I still prefer Geraldine Page.
Damien wrote:Penelope wrote:Natalie Wood, all the way, it's a brilliant, staggeringly powerful performance.
The rest of the list is fine, except Audrey Hepburn. Maybe it's "iconic," but she's totally miscast.
Most idiotic post I've ever read on this site.
And that includes criddic's political musings.
How atypically mean-spirited of you. And to Penelope of all people.
I love Natalie Wood in Splendor in the Grass. Maybe you have to been where Deenie's been to truly get how much she nails that character. It's not over-the-top and/or wooden. It's a pitch-perfect portrayal of the ravages of obsession on the psyche and I would've voted for her in a heartbeat (and just did, in fact).
Piper Laurie is fine in The Hustler but like everyone has mentioned already -- it's clearly a supporting performance. Holly Golightly is Audrey Hepburn's signature role and she pulls it off with aplomb. She would've been deserving of the award as well.
Sophia Loren is a fiercely maternal tornado as the ravaged and wounded, protective Earth Mother, setting up a performance that has inspired a legion of others. Unfortunately, similar to most of the Academy at the time, I have only seen the dubbed version, so I don't feel like I can completely critique her work or resolve the question of whether or not she deserved the award here.
Geraldine Page is one of the greatest actresses of all time, in my opinion (and several others). Her performance in Summer and Smoke (which, even if it is second-tier Williams, still visits many of his truest themes in a realistic manner) is a very delicate and thoughtful piece of acting. And when juxtaposed with her work in Sweet Bird of Youth the next year, Page's true range is revealed.
Edited By flipp525 on 1251742122
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Most idiotic post I've ever read on this site.Penelope wrote:Natalie Wood, all the way, it's a brilliant, staggeringly powerful performance.
The rest of the list is fine, except Audrey Hepburn. Maybe it's "iconic," but she's totally miscast.
And that includes criddic's political musings.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Natalie Wood, all the way, it's a brilliant, staggeringly powerful performance.
The rest of the list is fine, except Audrey Hepburn. Maybe it's "iconic," but she's totally miscast.
The rest of the list is fine, except Audrey Hepburn. Maybe it's "iconic," but she's totally miscast.
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
This one's a no brainer.
Iconic performances should have Oscars attached to them, and there are few performances as iconic as Audrey's as Holly Golightly. Plus it's my favorite movie (and my cat's name is Holly, and she followed Audrey and Tiffany.)
Laurie and Loren are fine, but has there been any actress as consistently irritating as Geraldine Page? And in the godawful, risible Splendor In The Grass, Natalie Wood somehow manages to be both wooden and over-the-top (but not in a good way) simultaneously.
Edited By Damien on 1251702787
Iconic performances should have Oscars attached to them, and there are few performances as iconic as Audrey's as Holly Golightly. Plus it's my favorite movie (and my cat's name is Holly, and she followed Audrey and Tiffany.)
Laurie and Loren are fine, but has there been any actress as consistently irritating as Geraldine Page? And in the godawful, risible Splendor In The Grass, Natalie Wood somehow manages to be both wooden and over-the-top (but not in a good way) simultaneously.
Edited By Damien on 1251702787
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
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It's startling to hear Wood was the primary choice of the "no foreigners allowed" caucus. Presumably it was on the basis of her long-time local residence, and her appearing in the year's best picture. Or maybe people were just more indulgent toward those "going mad" histrionics in those days.
I can't say I'm wild about Summer and Smoke, either -- for me it's firmly in that second-tier of William's work -- and I'll hold off on Page till next year.
I'm glad to see the consensus agrees with me: Piper Laurie was clearly a supporting actress (and would, by me, have outpointed any of the category's actual nominees).
This is one of Hepburn's best performances, in one of her best films, and I could easily and happily vote for her.
But I don't want to break Italiano's heart (as he threatened a thread or two ago). Loren's performance may be in an established Oscar-genre (the sacrificing mother), and it may be that her star quality shows through a bit even in her dress-down drab. But it's an excellent piece of work, and I see no need to grab the Oscar out of her hands.
I can't say I'm wild about Summer and Smoke, either -- for me it's firmly in that second-tier of William's work -- and I'll hold off on Page till next year.
I'm glad to see the consensus agrees with me: Piper Laurie was clearly a supporting actress (and would, by me, have outpointed any of the category's actual nominees).
This is one of Hepburn's best performances, in one of her best films, and I could easily and happily vote for her.
But I don't want to break Italiano's heart (as he threatened a thread or two ago). Loren's performance may be in an established Oscar-genre (the sacrificing mother), and it may be that her star quality shows through a bit even in her dress-down drab. But it's an excellent piece of work, and I see no need to grab the Oscar out of her hands.
Audrey, who probably would've been my overall pick for the year, based on what I've seen. Loren was a good choice though, and Page wouldn't have been a bad choice either. Piper Laurie was very good, but should've been in Support. Can't stand Splendor in the Grass and don't care for Wood in it (both the film and her performance are histrionic after histrionic).