1991 Oscar Shouldabeens

1927/28 through 1997
Big Magilla
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Post by Big Magilla »

It seems Damien wasn't alone in his admiration for Mary Stuart Masterson's performance at the time.

In the last year he covers in his Alternate Oscars (copyright 1993), Danny Peary writes:

In a terible year for movies, but an exceptional one for lead actresses, my favorite female performances were unnominated ones: Masterson in Fried Green Tomatoes, Mimi Rogers as a nympho-turned-Jesus-freak in Michael Tolkin's daringly blasphemous God-exists-but-isn't-worthy-of-our-devotion wrok, The Rapture, and best of all, Lili Taylor in the sorrowfully neglected romance, Dogfight.
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Post by Okri »

--dws1982 wrote:
--Damien wrote:(The film would have been much shorter if Stone had addressed who he thought was NOT involved in the conspiracy.)

There was one reviewer on the web who always started out reviews with "In a nutshell", where he would give a one-sentence overview of the film. My favorite was for JFK where it was something along the lines of: "John F. Kennedy was killed as the result of a conspiracy that involved every man, woman, and child alive at the time."

Heh - that JFK overview is great.




Edited By Big Magilla on 1295850795
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Post by Big Magilla »

--Sabin wrote:Just out of curiosity ('cause I'm just that kind of loser), does anybody remember who else Siskel & Ebert picked that year?
I do remember Ebert going overboard for JFK, but the only acting category I remember was supporting actress because of Ebert's unkind putdown of both Siskel and Tandy - I think Ebert went for Mercedes Ruehl.

I kind of took Ebert's remark personally as my choice for supporting actress that year was another "old lady", then 71 year-old Maureen O'Hara in Only the Lonely, still the only decent movie Chris Columbus ever directed.
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Post by dws1982 »

Damien wrote:(The film would have been much shorter if Stone had addressed who he thought was NOT involved in the conspiracy.)
There was one reviewer on the web who always started out reviews with "In a nutshell", where he would give a one-sentence overview of the film. My favorite was for JFK where it was something along the lines of: "John F. Kennedy was killed as the result of a conspiracy that involved every man, woman, and child alive at the time."
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Post by Damien »

Sabin wrote:Just out of curiosity ('cause I'm just that kind of loser), does anybody remember who else Siskel & Ebert picked that year?
Ebert had a major Jones for JFK and picked it as his number one picture of the year. I also have a -- possibly faulty -- recollection of him picking Tommy Lee Jones.

Okri, I do like JFK, bur Pen is right -- its nuttiness makes it endearing (The film would have been much shorter if Stone had addressed who he thought was NOT involved in the conspiracy.)

Sabin, "spinsters" traditionally lived together in small towns without anyone raising an eyebrow -- or at least not publicly speaking of intimations of the Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name.
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Post by Sabin »

I suppose you're right, flipp. This is a major Hollywood production after all. I would say my biggest complaints about the film in my post don't derive from painfully closeted homosexuality but the film's imbalanced nature.

I will say that the movie makes it fairly clear near the end that they are not in fact in a sexual lesbian relationship. Idgie says that there are still so many things she wants to tell her. Like, for instance, that she's been both gay and gay for her for what I can only imagine is some decade, decade and a half.

It certainly is nuclear fashion in that the entire town does infact recognize them as a couple, if not a sexual one, which brings up another point: why was this not speculated by the town, or even Ruth herself? This movie takes place in the 20th century South. There is enough intolerance rampant to recognize a target. Is this not the movie that 'Fried Green Tomatoes' is trying to be? Potentially, but the one it is certainly isn't that interesting. Least of all the all but indefensibly broad Kathy Bates scenes.

I look at the Best Actress nominees with Annette Bening ('Bugsy') and Michelle Pfeiffer ('Frankie & Johnny') on the outskirts, I'd wager that Kathy Bates was a contender largely due to her continued popularity after her 'Misery' victory. As for Best Supporting Actress, I see Globe nominations for Nicole Kidman for the box office dud 'Billy Bathgate' (which I have not seen, but I can only imagine this was the odd duck nod), Diane Ladd for 'Rambling Rose' (which is lovely, but whose nomination success for Dern & Ladd couldn't have been widely predicted), Juliette Lewis, Mercedes Rhuel, and Jessica Tandy. There are widespread Jane Horracks victories for her mesmerizing work in 'Life is Sweet' and Kate Nelligan for 'Frankie & Johnny' and 'The Prince of Tides'. This seems like an especially wide open category.

Just out of curiosity ('cause I'm just that kind of loser), does anybody remember who else Siskel & Ebert picked that year?
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Post by flipp525 »

I have to jump into this thread to say that I just love Fried Green Tomatoes. As a 13-year-old when this came out, it was one of the first movies where I recognized that there was a homosexual relationship of some type being displayed on film and even though it was two women, there was something momentous about that for me as a gay boy, unsure of his sexuality and deeply in the closet. I'd tell people I liked the film and they'd say, "You mean that one with the two lesbians?" and I'd be all "Yeah, so?" We got a cat the same year this film came out and I named her Idgie (and she's still alive today!)

Their relationship was watered down for the film version, Sabin. This was 1991, not 2007. The movie would've been a harder sell if they went full-force with the lesbian content. I think deriding the film for not being more sexually adventurous, though misses the point of the characters. Idgie's assumption of the traditional male role to Ruth's angelic, maternal figure plays out in an almost nuclear fashion. I don't think Idgie and Ruth's relationship had to be portrayed as overtly sexual in order to make the point that they were a functioning couple recognized as such by the entire town, long before that kind of thing was accepted (if it even is today). I found their bond to be rather unique, but that's just my own opinion.

Cicely Tyson making the infamous BBQ, the first scene in Valdosta when Idgie clues into what's happening to Ruth, the beautiful Chris O'Donnell in the shocking opener, and Jessica Tandy letting her hair down and diving into the role of Ninny Threadgoode...this film holds a special place in my heart.

I would've nominated Tandy and Mary Stuart Masterson who got the character of Idgie down pat. She certainly plays a lot of dykey characters, doesn't she? (Benny and Joon, Some Kind of Wonderful, Fried Green Tomatoes).

Interestingly, although the film hints that Tandy is the grown-up version of Masterson's character at the end of the film, in the book, Ninny Threadgoode is a completely separate character from Idgie Threadgoode (she's her sister-in-law, in fact).
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Post by Penelope »

--Okri wrote:Damien's full of surprises, isn't he?

And I thought you liked JFK.
Well, technically, Damien's right: JFK is a loony tunes conspiracy movie! And that's precisely why I love it!
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Post by Sabin »

...which you have not seen, have you?

'Fried Green Tomatoes' is a South I've never encountered before. It's wrapped up in cliché like bacon around asparagus, and by that I mean loose. Neither story seems willing to be substantial enough to sustain itself, let alone each other. It's bullshit 'Forrest Gump' narration ("bullshit 'Forrest Gump' narration" critiquing that style of narration, 'Forrest Gump' included not excepted) spurned at times by half a thought, sometimes less. Kathy Bates' story is so flimsy, Damien. She's a champ for putting up with it, but ultimately it plays like an Oprah audience laugh/applause track.

Why not play the entire movie out with Mary Louise Parker and Mary Stuart Masterson (whom, I must admit in the hours since I've seen the movie, I have come around a bit on)? Certainly theirs is the more compelling story, and reduced in size it only lessens its impact. Also, I don't demand a contemporary acknowledgement of homosexuality in film (especially because if there's one thing we know about sexuality is that it's fairly fluid in nature), but I find it very difficult to believe that Mary Stuart Masterson's Ingie did not slip up once and reach out for Ruth. Not once?! She's an impulsive little thing, deeply, madly in love for a period of years and years. Not once did she think her feelings might be reciprocated once? Their love story (and it is one) is relegated into a paean to quiet suffering and fatalism...which I love in film! 'In the Mood for Love' is a two hour boner. But half an 'In the Mood for Love' wouldn't work nearly as well. I'm dubious about this film's intents, and whether or not Ingie was more open about her feelings for Ruth in the book. I'd wager that this was watered down lest they offend contemporary audiences with a movie about two dykes.

I have now seen every major nominated film of 1991 save for 'For the Boys', which I'm not exactly dying to see. I will say that Jane Horracks was robbed for 'Life is Sweet', but were I to vote for Best Supporting Actress I would most likely opt for Mercedes Rhuel for 'The Fisher Kind', a movie that doesn't work half as well as it should but benefits from her blowsy life force immeasurably.
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Post by Okri »

Damien's full of surprises, isn't he?

And I thought you liked JFK.
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Post by Damien »

--Big Magilla wrote:Nobody at the time thought Parker or Masterson had a chance
Harumphhh, :angry: I predicted that my favorite actress would be nominated.

"a little forced"? Sabin, I'm gonna have to track you down and kill you.

One problem with the women from Fried Green re: the Oscar race is that people were confused as to who was a lead and who was supporting.

I had predicted Fried to be a Best Picture nominee, especially since it was catching on and gathering momentum during the nominating period. This lovely film is certainly far superior to any of the actual nominees: the mediocre thriller; the looney tunes conspiracy flick; the turgid male weepie; the pointless gangster biography; and don't get me started on the Goddamn Cartoon.
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Post by Big Magilla »

For a "movie of the moment" it holds up pretty well. Bates was nominated for a Golden Globe for best actress-comedy, Tandy for supporting actress and the film for best picture-comedy. The film was a dark horse in the Oscar race, with Tandy's nomination the only sure bet in a somewhat weak year for supporting actresses.

I remember Siskel voting for Tandy in Siskel & Ebert's annual "if we picked the Oscars" special and Ebert dismissing his vote with "you went with the old lady".

Nobody at the time thought Parker or Masterson had a chance, though their performances resonate more as time goes by.
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Post by Sabin »

I just saw 'Fried Green Tomatoes'.

This is some pretty broad stuff. I have a hard time believing it was taken seriously, let alone touched on some cultural zeitgeist, Oprah be damned. And yet on the other hand, if it was such a movie of the moment, I have a hard time believing it wasn't nominated for Best Picture.

Best Actress being fairly locked up with Davis, Foster, and Sarandon locks, Dern a good bet, and Midler given a sympathy vote, I can understand why Kathy Bates wasn't nominated; although I must say, her role is actually rather demeaning and she rarely is given occasion to rise above pithy female empowerment and "Look at the fat lady!" visual gags.

Jessica Tandy does her thing as well as could be expected. Mary Louise Parker is actually rather lovely. Mary Stuart Masterson felt a little forced to me though. I shouldn't be surprised that Tandy was nodded in lieu of Parker or Masterson but they had much more substantial parts.

Was this any kind of major contender?
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Post by Hustler »

flipp525 wrote:One question though: are we supposed to think that she, herself, is Idgie Threadgoode (Mary Stuart Masterson's character) at the end of the movie when Kathy Bates finds the honey at Ruth's grave? If you've read the book, she is clearly not but I always felt like the movie deliberately left it up in the air.

I haven´t red the book so far but according to what I saw in the movie, Jessica Tandy´s character is the current and old version of Idgie.
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Post by rudeboy »

Best Film
1. A Midnight Clear
2. Raise the Red Lantern
3. The Double Life of Veronique
4. The Silence of the Lambs
5. Terminator 2: Judgement Day

Best Director
1. Zhang Yimou for Raise the Red Lantern
2. Krysztof Kieslowski for The Double Life of Veronique
3. Keith Gordon for A Midnight Clear
4. Jonathan Demme for The Silence of the Lambs
5. Oliver Stone for J.F.K.

Best Actor
1. River Phoenix for My own Private Idaho
2. Anthony Hopkins for The Silence of the Lambs
3. Jeff Bridges for The Fisher King
4. Albert Brooks for Defending Your Life
5. Noah Taylor for Flirting

Best Actress
1. Gong Li for Raise the Red Lantern
2. Irene Jacob for The Double Life of Veronique
3. Jodie Foster for The Silence of the Lambs
4. Susan Sarandon for Thelma & Louise
5. Geena Davis for Thelma & Louise

Best Supporting Actor
1. Donald Sutherland for J.F.K.
2. Laurence Fishburne for Boyz N the Hood
3. Rip Torn for Defending Your Life
4. Gary Sinise for A Midnight Clear
5. Tommy Lee Jones for J.F.K.

Best Supporting Actress
1. Mary Stuart Masterson for Fried Green Tomatoes
2. Mary-Louise Parker for Fried Green Tomatoes
3. Jessica Lange for Cape Fear
4. Mercedes Ruehl for The Fisher King
5. Kate Nelligan for Frankie and Johnny
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