The AFI is at it again!

rain Bard
Associate
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:55 pm
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Post by rain Bard »

Yeah, probably. Unless you count Disney's own Academy Award Review, which packaged five Oscar-winning shorts together. Arguably, the mid-1937 release was meant to test the distribution waters for Snow White later that year.
Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 19318
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Post by Big Magilla »

rain Bard wrote:Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is not the first animated feature. The first was apparently an Argentinean film made by a popular political cartoonist, though it's considered a "lost film". The oldest surviving animated feature is Lotte Reiniger's ornate shadow animation piece the Adventures of Prince Achmed.
First American animated feature?
rain Bard
Associate
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:55 pm
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Post by rain Bard »

Big Magilla wrote:Since they consider non-American made films in the English language as foreign,
Unless, like Lawrence of Arabia, they consider them American.

I understand that John McCain has said that his favorite film is Viva Zapata!. Barack Obama has laid claim to Casablanca.

Oh, and Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is not the first animated feature. The first was apparently an Argentinean film made by a popular political cartoonist, though it's considered a "lost film". The oldest surviving animated feature is Lotte Reiniger's ornate shadow animation piece the Adventures of Prince Achmed.

Which is playing in a tinted print at the San Francisco Silent Film Festival as a matinee at the Castro Theatre on July 13th. Anyone with family in the Bay Area- let them know that the festival is free for children 12 and under. (I'm on the festival's writing committee so I can't resist the opportunity to plug)
User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 13668
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Post by OscarGuy »

Well, if they did that, then they would have to pay fees to each individual for appearing and that would be prohibitively expensive.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Penelope
Site Admin
Posts: 5663
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:47 am
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Post by Penelope »

Big Magilla wrote:I like the idea of 100 stars picking their favorite films except that they'd probably all pick the same handful fo ilms. The rule would have to be to chose "my favorite film not picked by someone else" but then they'd be fighting over who got to pick first. Oh, the horror of it all!
There's an easy way around that: get up to 500 celebrities--and I'm talking not just movie stars/directors, but politicians, athletes, businessmen, scientists, authors, historians, etc.--to each name their #1 film. Obviously there will be some overlap, which will provide for more than just one talking head discussing the film. Hopefully, such an eclectic group of people would also result in some interesting choices, and interesting pairs--say, if both John Waters and John McCain selected Mommie Dearest as their favorit film!
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston

"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 19318
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Post by Big Magilla »

Their desk reference book does notate frelease dates for foreign films so it's in the realm of posssibility that will do a foreign film list at some point but what would the criteria be?

Since they consider non-American made films in the English language as foreign, a populist list would likely be dominated by British fare unless they come up with two lists, one for non-American films in English and one for other languages but that too might be problematic. On the other hand since most of us, when we think fo foreign films think of foreign language films, they risk a shut-out of British films and that wouldn't be fair either. Oh what to do, what to do.

I like the idea of 100 stars picking their favorite films except that they'd probably all pick the same handful fo ilms. The rule would have to be to chose "my favorite film not picked by someone else" but then they'd be fighting over who got to pick first. Oh, the horror of it all!

A better idea would be the 100 best films not available on commercial DVD in the U.S.
The Original BJ
Emeritus
Posts: 4312
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:49 pm

Post by The Original BJ »

Penelope wrote:How about really being daring and--yes, I know it's the AMERICAN Film Institute--but how about listing the 100 greatest foreign language films?
In theory, this is a good idea.

However, given how little the AMERICAN Film Institute knows about American film, I'd absolutely shudder to imagine what they'd consider the finest in world fair.

At least right now they're only ****ing in their own sandbox.
Penelope
Site Admin
Posts: 5663
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:47 am
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Post by Penelope »

But what can they do next year? Re-tread the Thrills list, or the Romance list, or the Greatest Movie Stars list? How about really being daring and--yes, I know it's the AMERICAN Film Institute--but how about listing the 100 greatest foreign language films?

Or, gather together 100 major celebrities and have them cite their favorite film of all time....
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston

"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
The Original BJ
Emeritus
Posts: 4312
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:49 pm

Post by The Original BJ »

I think Eric hit this right on the nose -- by limiting lists to 10, the AFI ensured that significant numbers of contemporary films would pop up over more established classics.

The best example of this is romantic comedy, where even such obvious choices as Bringing Up Baby, His Girl Friday, and The Lady Eve were left out for the Cher and Meg Ryan vehicles. Ditto including stuff like Shrek over Dumbo and Terminator 2 over Close Encounters of the Third Kind -- even with totally AFI-acceptable choices available, recent popular fare seemed to hold a huge edge over mainstream fare from the past.

The category to me which makes the least sense is fantasy, with films like Big, Groundhog Day, Harvey, It's a Wonderful Life, and even Miracle on 34th Street. I can see how one could justify those titles, but are those the kind of films people immediately think of when they think of the fantasy genre?

The overall problem, though, is just the ever-increasing redundancy of these lists. I count the following films as having never been recognized by AFI before: The Thief of Bagdad, Scarface '32, Red River, Anatomy of a Murder, Cinderella, Witness for the Prosecution, The Hustler, In Cold Blood, Judgment at Nuremberg, Kramer vs. Kramer, McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Back to the Future, A Cry in the Dark, Finding Nemo, and Shrek. That's a grand total of FIFTEEN!! Meanwhile, The Godfather and Gone With the Wind show up on their nine-millionth list, and a good bulk of the titles make their third or fourth appearance.

The AFI may never get rid of its taste for bland populism, but next year it would be nice for them to recognize DIFFERENT populist films.
User avatar
Eric
Tenured
Posts: 2749
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:18 pm
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Contact:

Post by Eric »

My initial suspicion a few months back was that they were using this format to move back into the warm, comforting arms of uncomplicated populism after the surprisingly (and, to them, no doubt terrifyingly) cinephile-friendly results of last year's top 100 redux was resoundingly confirmed by these lists.
Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 19318
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Post by Big Magilla »

They are totally inconsistent.

I suspect Snow White was ranked so high because of its historical importance as the first full length animated feature - and a good one. At the other end of the spectrum I suspect more voters were familiar with A Few Good Men than Witness for the Prosecution. A shame.
User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 13668
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Post by OscarGuy »

The AFI has never had the capability of determining good qualification rules. They will allow films made by foreign directors as long as they were financed in the US, but won't accept foreign produced features, which make their lists seem silly and exclusionary.

In addition, I'm opposed to any list that puts The Lion King above Beauty and the Beast and ranks Shrek above anything. I like it, but it's not a better film than either Finding Nemo or Cinderella or any of a half dozen other great animated films.

How is A Few Good Men a better movie than Witness for the Prosecution?

Saving Private Ryan is a war film, not an epic. Same gripe for me for Schindler's List. They really should have just called it "Historical feature" in which case, SPR still wouldn't qualify.

Anyone notice that Mystery is dominated by Hitchcock?

I really hate their lists, though. It seems like there are some really ill-informed choices in there.

And just because Snow White was first, does not make it a great movie. Nor does it make it better than Bambi, which is a far superior work in terms of emotional depth.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 19318
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Post by Big Magilla »

rain Bard wrote:If "sports" is a genre, then how does Caddyshack fit into it? Doesn't it subvert all the genre rules established in the other films? Isn't really a film of another "genre"- the comedy?
The same thing struck me about Cat Ballou named as one of the ten best "westerns".
rain Bard
Associate
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:55 pm
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Post by rain Bard »

Three things noticed:

If "sports" is a genre, then how does Caddyshack fit into it? Doesn't it subvert all the genre rules established in the other films? Isn't really a film of another "genre"- the comedy?

In another non-genre category, "animation" (it's a medium, not a genre- most of the selections fit snugly in the "fantasy" genre.), I'm torn. As close as Disney came to locking up the category, I'm glad they didn't quite do it. But I'm aghast that the lone spoiler is a film as bad as Shrek.

Very nice to see Raoul Walsh's silent Thief of Bagdad get some love.
Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 19318
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Post by Big Magilla »

For thsoe who may be interested in, or at inquisitive as to, the reuslts, here they are...

http://www.afi.com/10top10/default.html
Post Reply

Return to “Other Film Discussions”