The Bells of St. Mary's - A question!

[ITALIANO]

Marco was probably molested and/or beaten by nuns growing up so a concept of a kind-hearted nun is alien and fake to him.

This is honestly the most idiotic thing I've ever read on this board - and I've read many.

[cam]

It's A Wonderful Life[/i] is far more than just some piece of Christmas uplift.

How?

DWS can you please expand on your belief re It's A Wonderful Life?

[Penelope]

I read a profile on Delores Hart not too long ago. She lets her fellow nuns in her convent enjoy the free tapes and DVD's she gets for being an Academy member.

Wow. I'd love to have been there the night they all sat around and watched Shortbus.

[anonymous1980]

She said that as a member of AMPAS it was her duty to see all the nominees which she did, though she wouldn't say who or what she voted for.

Did not know that! I assume she's the only Academy member who's a nun (or priest, or monk, or rabbi, or imam)?

A rabbi won a Documentary Feature Oscar not too long ago. Whether or not he's an Academy member, I don't know.

I read a profile on Delores Hart not too long ago. She lets her fellow nuns in her convent enjoy the free tapes and DVD's she gets for being an Academy member.

Marco was probably molested and/or beaten by nuns growing up so a concept of a kind-hearted nun is alien and fake to him.



Edited By anonymous on 1198869178

[Penelope]

She said that as a member of AMPAS it was her duty to see all the nominees which she did, though she wouldn't say who or what she voted for.

Did not know that! I assume she's the only Academy member who's a nun (or priest, or monk, or rabbi, or imam)?

[Big Magilla]

Actually quite a nice one. She's now a Mother Superior of her order in upstate New York. There was an interview with her (I forget for which magazine) at Oscar time two years ago when they tried to bait her about Brokeback Mountain. She said that as a member of AMPAS it was her duty to see all the nominees which she did, though she wouldn't say who or what she voted for.

[Penelope]

I wonder what kind of nun Delores Hart is?

[Big Magilla]

Sorry, Marco, but there are nuns like Sister Benedict or at least there were up to the early 1960s. Maybe not in Italy, but certainly in America. Must be all those young girls who became nuns after seeing The Bells of St. Mary's. They not only wanted to become like Ingrid Bergman in that movie. They actually did. :O

You are right that Americans, and sadly, people all over the world now, like their religion light and reassuring. 60 Minutes did a profile of a TV evangelist (I forgot his name) who is the most popular one in the world now, who sounds almost like a Scientologist with his "you can do it" message. I guess it comes from centuries of hellfire and brimstone preachers. People are flocking in the opposite direction in droves.

[ITALIANO]

The Bells of St. Mary's is no more a religious film than The Painted Veil, Green Dolphin Street, There's No Business Like Show Business, The Sound of Music or numerous other films featuring priests and nuns were. It might just as well have been set in a public school with Bing a new superintendant of schools and Ingrid the acting principal.

No, Big Magilla, it IS about religion (a recruiting poster for the catholic church, and in this sense a successful one - at the time several American girls decided to become nuns right after seeing it) - otherwise, as u said, it could have been set in any public school. But its way of looking at religion is very American, very superficial - perfect for those (and not only Americans are like this, unfortunately) looking for something uplifting, reassuring, easy and depressingly fake - it's the religious equivalent of Coca Cola, faith made easy for those who don't want to think too much (and we know that Americans aren't exactly profound when it comes to religion). There aren't nuns like Ingrid Bergman, healthily beautiful, always radiantly smiling, their face bathed by a celestial light - they simply don't exist. It's just Hollywood, and while one is allowed to believe in fairy tales, he has to be honest and admit (if not privately to himself, at least in such a public context) that the truth - while not necessarily as harsh as in The Magdalene Sisters - is something completely different.

Damien, you'd be even right about looking at the art and not the artist. But there are two problems here. First, I don't consider The Bells of St Mary's as art - I consider it as a very smart commercial product, a cynical cultural operation, extremely interesting by the way, but still all industry and no art. But even if it were art, since it aspires to profound moral values (and even your reaction to it is moral, "a celebration of the human spirit etc", not artistic), then it has to be judged on these terms too - it's my right to see how sincere it is. And - quite obviously - it's not. (You do the same with Elia Kazan movies).



Edited By ITALIANO on 1198842642

[Damien]

Just because a movie dwells on harshness doesn't make it any more realistic than a movie that doesn't.

Exactly right, Big. There's a harsh, misanthropic supposedly "realistic" movie currently in release called "Before The Devil Knows You're Dead" and it's just about the phoniest movie I've ever seen -- not a single recognizable motivation, character or action in the entire picture.

I've always thought it's much easier to make a down beat depressing film about how shitty human existence is -- both in terms of economic situation and personal unhappiness. To make a truly memorable uplifting film is a rare accomplishment (usually you end up with a Green Mile or As Good Ad It Gets).

Thanks for citing the Jean Renoir quote ("McCarey understands people better perhaps than anyone else in Hollywood.”) which, I think, still rings true today. The interaction of the characters in McCarey's films -- whether it's Cary Grant and Irene Dunne using Ralph Bellamy to score points against each other in that most grounded of screwball comedies, The Awful Truth; Beulah Bondi and Victor Moore having their last bittersweet day together in Make Way For Tomorrow; Irene and Charles Boyer's reunion in Love Affair; Bing and Ingrid arguing over Patsy's matriculation, etc. etc. ad gloriam -- are truly privileged cinematic moments.

And the human kindness in these films -- found in these films iis indeed profound, and anything but "thin" or "conveniently easy."

As for McCarey's politics, a number of critics have pointed out the incongruity that for someone with strongly anti-Communistic views, McCarey certainly populated his movies with unlikable and unscrupulous capitalists, bankers and nabobs. And My Son John is not the simplistic right-wing screed its reputation would have it be -- the extremist chauvinsitic father played by Dean Jagger is portrayed even less sympathetically than Robert Walker's idealistic Communist, who joined the Party because it espoused true Christian values.

And in any case, as the cliche goes, look at the art, not the artist. Marco, you would probably denigrate Hitler's water colors because of his politics.

[Big Magilla]

The Bells of St. Mary's is no more a religious film than The Painted Veil, Green Dolphin Street, There's No Business Like Show Business, The Sound of Music or numerous other films featuring priests and nuns were. It might just as well have been set in a public school with Bing a new superintendant of schools and Ingrid the acting principal. One Foot in Heaven, The Song of Bernadette, The Keys of the Kingdom, Stars in My Crown, A Man Called Peter, The Cardinal - those are films in which the main character's religious calling is an integral part of the story.

[ITALIANO]

The Magdalene Sisters was a very good movie of a different sort, but it is the kind of movie that you watch once or maybe once every twenty or thirty years.

I saw Bells of St Mary's one time and I don't want to repeat the experience, honestly. I don't know why Americans can't deal with religion in a honest, profound way - I mean, I hope it's just Hollywood - I can't believe that Americans really see religion in this fake, corny way. Or maybe I can believe it, now that I think of it.

There are exceptions though - like A Nun's Story. But not many.

[cam]

It's A Wonderful Life[/i] is far more than just some piece of Christmas uplift.

How?

[Big Magilla]

Just because a movie dwells on harshness doesn't make it any more realistic than a movie that doesn't. The Magdalene Sisters was a very good movie of a different sort, but it is the kind of movie that you watch once or maybe once every twenty or thirty years. What woudl be the point of watching all that misery over and over? The Bells of St. Mary's, on the other hand, is is the kind of movie that lifts the spirits, but it is not without its intrusions into reality.

The Patsy subplot with her mother and father, for one thing, was plenty realistic and the tuberculosis that afflicts Siser Benedict in teh end was all too common in the 1940s, but the film doesnt dwell on these things. It's from the director who discovered Laurel & Hardy and directed them, W.C. Fields and the Marx Bros. for crying out loud, the American director that Jean Renoir said understood people more than any other.

Although I like It's a Wonderful Life a lot, I would say that that is a far more unrealistic view of life than anything portrayed in The Bells of St. Mary's except maybe the sudden generoisty of Mr. Bogardus. Jimmy Steart's Savings & Loan would have gone under long before the film ended in real life.

[ITALIANO]

Well, anyone who has seen the by far more realistic The Magdalene Sisters certainly will remember the scene where that terrible Mother Superior, after abusing and exploiting - in the name of religion (and money) - the girls under her care, suddenly has tears in her eyes watching her favourite, uplifting movie, The Bells of St Mary's.

It's a very good scene - it says alot about the character. But it says alot about the movie too, and about the movie's appeal. Now, one doesn't have to be a sadistic monster to appreciate The Bells of Saint Mary's, of course. But let's face it - it's a "wonderful celebration of human kindness" done Hollywood-style (and by the way, could any serious movie be described with such words? I doubt) - extremely superficial, well-made even, with wonderful actors, but absolutely non-threatening (and yes, "human kindness" IS a much more complex, more threatening issue). Its supposed charm is so thin, so conveniently easy, that it could be a musical, even - it's perfect for those who love The Sound of Music. We watch these movies, and we all magically feel good, kind, generous people - and what's more important, good without any effort, which is the perfect solution. If only life were so easy...

It's a perfect example of American hypocrisy - the movie, not necessarily those who enjoy it. One can be moved to tears by it, and then - like its director did - happily go to denounce communists to Mc Carthy. Or, like most of his countrymen do now, be glad when innocent Iraqis are massacred. I don't have anything agaist those who like this kind of movies, but let's be honest and put them in the right context.



Edited By ITALIANO on 1198763019