Ryan's Daughter

1895-1999
Post Reply
Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 19318
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Post by Big Magilla »

In the final analysis I suppose Patton is down the middle with its amniguous/muddled take on war, but I do recall reading with surprise the initial reaction to the nominations, in which the AP reporter, I think it was, congratulated the Academy on nominating fresh blood instead of the usual supects. Whiile I anticipated nods for George C. Scott, Jack Nicholson and Melvyn Douglas, I was surprised by the nominations of James Earl Jones (pleasantly so) and Ryan O'Neal (what the heck, I thought) over Mitchum and Albert Finney in Scrooge, assuming the comments were meant as a swipe at the latter two.

Love Story was written as a screenplay, but was published as a novel, which became a huge bestseller, before the film was released. It was the most eagerly antipated film of the year. It was by far the favorite movie of every young girl. For years afterward Jennifer was the number one name for new born girls based on the character Ali MacGraw played. I don't think MacGraw, who was the presumed favorite for best actress, or her film, had all that much support from the old guard who rejected her in favor of the classically trained Glenda Jackson for best actress. After all, it was the old guard who controlled that year's votes, handing over supporting Oscars to veterans John Mills and Helen Hayes for their shameless over-acting.
Mister Tee
Tenured Laureate
Posts: 8637
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:57 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by Mister Tee »

Oh...and I think Women in Love, despite shortcomings, is both a better movie and more visually creative than Ryan's Daughter.
Mister Tee
Tenured Laureate
Posts: 8637
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:57 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by Mister Tee »

Damien wrote:Magilla, my reading and recollection of the 1970 nominees was that it was Airport and Love Story (despite the curse words) that appealed to the Old Guard, M*A*S*H* and Five Easy Pieces to the hip crows, with Paton, with its rather ambiguous (or, if you will, muddled) view of war which came down the middle.
A friend of mine analyzed the race in precisely the same way. He called it the Compromise Chart, which he first concocted in 1967 (Bonnie & Clyde & The Graduate on the left, Dinner and Dolittle on the right, with In the Heat of the Night winning with "the sensible center"), and used again immediately in 1971 (Clockwork & Picture Show the left fringe -- the latter for its extensive skin -- and Fiddler and Nicholas appealing to the old guard, making it easy for the new/old French Connection).

I will agree Ryan's Daughter is better than Love Story, but otherwise am surprised you guys hold it in such relatively high esteem.
Damien
Laureate
Posts: 6331
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:43 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by Damien »

This coment from Roger Ebert's review pretty much encapsulates critical reacyion to Ryan's Daughter, which I quite liked at the time (although I haven't seen it since):

"Not every subject is suited to the epic treatment, to the vast landscapes and towering clouds and portentous musical scores, of the recent Lean style. "Dr. Zhivago" could support it because the Russian revolution was appropriate to the heroic scale. But a simple little love triangle on the Southwest coast of Ireland simply can't bear the weight of Lean's overachieving."

Magilla, my reading and recollection of the 1970 nominees was that it was Airport and Love Story (despite the curse words) that appealed to the Old Guard, M*A*S*H* and Five Easy Pieces to the hip crows, with Paton, with its rather ambiguous (or, if you will, muddled) view of war which came down the middle.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 19318
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Post by Big Magilla »

Lean should have had his head examinded if he cast Christopher Jones based on his diffident performance in The Looking Glass War. It was a terrible film, and he was terrible in it, dubbing or no dubbing. He was far better in the box office success, Wild in the Streets in 1968. Casting him based on that performance would have made more sense.

Jones, who had been married to Susan Strasberg, and had highly publicized romances with Olivia Hussey and Sharon Tate suffered a nervous breakdown when he heard of Tate's murder. How this factored into his performance in Ryan's Daughter I don't know, but I think Lean covered Jones' weaknesses very well, limiting his exposure in the finished work.

I loved Ryan's Daughter. It combined both the intimacy of early Lean (Brief Encounter, Summertime) with the sumptuous photography of his later work (Lawrence of Arabia, Doctor Zhivago). Its only real problem was its length which didn't support its simple narrative.

Most of the criticism surrounding the film at the time, other than its length, was Mitchum whom both critics and audiences found hard to believe as the gentle, cuckholded husband, a shame because it's actually one of Mitchum's best performances.

The best performance in the film, though, is the one given by Trevor Howard as the fiery village priest. Howard was cheated out of an Oscar nomination when MGM listed him as lead, rather than supporting, in the film. Academy rules at the time required the studios to make the determination as to which category perfromers should be considered for nominations in.

The 1970 Oscar nominations were heralded at the time for opening up opportunities for new performers. Read Ryan O'Neal over Robert Mitchum, so I'm not so sure the same people who liked Five Easy Pieces and M*A*S*H didn't like Love Story as well. The old guard went for Patton and Airiport. The beautiful and unfairly hammered Ryan's Daughter
was snubbed more by the hoity toity critics who preferred the modern slant on historical epics taken by Women in Love and Fellini Satyricon. Class outed in the end, though, when Freddie Young's gorgeous camerawork on Ryan won the cinematography award over Airport, Patton, Tora! Tora! Tora! and yes, Women in Love.
Penelope
Site Admin
Posts: 5663
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:47 am
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Post by Penelope »

Yes, it was Christopher Jones. The DVD of Ryan's Daughter has a making-of doc that mentions the fact that Jones was cast by Lean after seeing the actor in The Looking Glass War, not realizing the American actor had been dubbed--and, so, he had to be dubbed for Ryan's Daughter, as well. Too, Jones didn't get along with either Lean or Miles; the experience was apparently even worse for Jones than for Lean: Jones never appeared in another movie until a cameo role in a low-budget 1996 feature.

But he looked good in uniform--there's a telling shot when Miles first sees his character, the camera pans up and down his stiff, uniformed body from her point of view. The relationship was only sexual; the real love story is between Miles' and Mitchum's characters.
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston

"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Mister Tee
Tenured Laureate
Posts: 8637
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:57 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by Mister Tee »

Well, it's a 35-year-old memory, but...

It was unquestionably beautiful. The stormy gun-running scene by itself justified Freddie Young's Oscar.

I liked Mitchum alot; Miles okay. Thought Mills was "acting"; liked Howard better. Thought Christopher Jones (it was him, right? haven't checked) was vapid.

But the story seemed hopelessly thin for its ungodly length. It might have made a decent 90 minute weeper; at 3 1/2 hours it was torture. The last half hour especially seemed endless -- when would they get to the end of that street?

As for reaction vis a vis other films -- the movie was totally out of step wth the mood of the times. I think most people who hated this didn't care for Love Story, either; they were MASH or Five Easy Pieces fans (or, if Hollywood we must go, Patton). And there was especial disappointment a great filmmaker like Lean had fallen so low.
Penelope
Site Admin
Posts: 5663
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:47 am
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Post by Penelope »

This weekend, I've finally got around to seeing David Lean's infamous 1970 film Ryan's Daughter, the movie that received such a critical thrashing it sent him into inactivity for 14 years. Since I was just turning one when the film was released, I have to wonder at why the critics were so harsh, and what really was up with audiences at the time that they would rather watch crap like Love Story than Ryan's Daughter, an admittedly flawed film but a so much more rewarding and interesting film....

Ok, it is an elephantine production, and John Mills sure does ham it up (naturally, he won the Oscar), but, for all that, the cinematography is often breathtaking, and Sarah Miles and Robert Mitchum are so wonderful in their performances that I found the film quite emotionally affecting by the time it was over (but, then, I admit to a major soft spot for historical romantic epics). I'm curious to know the board's thoughts....
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston

"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
Post Reply

Return to “The First Century”