Period: Ma Rainey's Black Bottom
Contemporary: Promising Young Woman
Sci-Fi/Fantasy: Mulan
Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
I wouldn't completely ignore Pinocchio. I had a feeling it might sneak in for costumes or production design, but didn't predict it beyond makeup. The fact that it has more support than just makeup has to raise its profile. If voters are split between Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and Mank, I could see Pinocchio winning here. Just like with the makeup, anyone who actually saw the movie knows both are quite memorable even if the movie itself falls a bit short. I think it actually has a better shot in makeup, because of the eye-popping work there, but I would not be shocked to see it take both if enough voters have seen the movie.
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
I think it's because of the way it approaches the era. A movie like The King's Speech is set in the 1930's, and the characters wear period-appropriate costumes, but in The Artist it's all about evoking that late-silent era, so the costumes are designed not just to be period-appropriate for the late 20's, but they're meant to be the type of clothes you might have seen in a Hollywood movie made in that era. I'm not saying the voters intellectualized this, but I think it was more along the lines of, it was a movie they really liked because it was good-naturedly celebrating Hollywood. It's essentially A Star is Born with a happy ending.Sabin wrote:The Artist is probably the least dazzlingly designed in the 2011 lineup of Anonymous, Hugo, Jane Eyre, and W.E.. So why did The Artist win and can Mank replicate that victory?
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Big Magilla
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
Who are these people who are talking about a rematch between Close and Colman? Must be the same people who keep talking about Bening and Swank having a go at each other again.Mister Tee wrote:Oddball Oscar trivia: people are talking about a rematch of Close/Colman this year -- but the rematch I note is the costumes for 1996 Emma (without a period, that time) vs. Ann Roth, who triumphed in the category with The English Patient.
Colman is lucky to be nominated. She's completely in Hopkins' shadow. Close might not have been nominated this year if she had won before. Youn is this year's old lady of choice and Seyfried the heretofore taken for granted actress finally enjoying critical huzzahs, the kind of performance that usually wins this category. I'd like to see Close finally win, but I'd rather see it happen in a year when they can give her a proper standing ovation.
Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
Excellent point.Mister Tee wrote
I start with the premise that Emma. is the nominee with the most eye-catching costumes; I'm surprised some of you seem to be disregarding that as a factor. As dws implies, this has often been the trump card in the category. Back a decade or so ago, we had a run of Marie Antoinette/Elizabeth: the Golden Age/The Duchess, winning over far more central films Dreamgirls/Atonement/Benjamin Button, simply because their costumes were far more dazzling.
It's an especially good point because Mank isn't a dissimilar contender to Atonement in the category of Best Costume Design. A better word to describe the costumes in both would be "sharp" not "dazzling." And who beat Atonement in 2007? Alexandra Byrne for Elizabeth: The Golden Age.
There have only been two instances this past decade where the winner for Best Costume Design wasn't as dazzling or more so than any other in the category: The Artist and Mad Max: Fury Road. The latter film just deserves mention because while the designs in this category are dazzling, they're a different kind of dazzling than we're used to seeing win this category. Nonetheless, it led some to predict Cinderella would win.
The Artist is probably the least dazzlingly designed in the 2011 lineup of Anonymous, Hugo, Jane Eyre, and W.E.. So why did The Artist win and can Mank replicate that victory?
It's also worth noting that in the last ten years, only two eventual Best Costume Design winners took home the prize without a corresponding Best Production Design nomination (or win): Phantom Thread and Little Women, both of which were Best Picture contenders.
A puzzling race.
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
You make an interesting point and I think the veteran (Ann Roth is now 90 and still carrying on - now working on the film version of Wicked which is in pre-production) will win her second Oscar.Mister Tee wrote:Oddball Oscar trivia: people are talking about a rematch of Close/Colman this year -- but the rematch I note is the costumes for 1996 Emma (without a period, that time) vs. Ann Roth, who triumphed in the category with The English Patient.
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Mister Tee
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
I start with the premise that Emma. is the nominee with the most eye-catching costumes; I'm surprised some of you seem to be disregarding that as a factor. As dws implies, this has often been the trump card in the category. Back a decade or so ago, we had a run of Marie Antoinette/Elizabeth: the Golden Age/The Duchess, winning over far more central films Dreamgirls/Atonement/Benjamin Button, simply because their costumes were far more dazzling.
You can argue (I would, anyway) that the subsequent expansion of best picture to ten, combined with the earlier nomination/presentation date, has made all categories more best picture-centric (the explanation for the high number of nominations for so many films last year). But, even in that system, Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them triumphed over La La Land; sheer volume and showiness of design mostly wins voters over.
I think the fact that this year offers a more relaxed deadline -- not only a later show, but a lengthier stretch between nominations and awards -- makes it more possible for a smaller/less-essential film to compete (especially since a lot of voters are still home-bound, looking for distraction). Emma. is hardly unseen to begin with -- it's been out for a year, and has been readily available for home viewing for some time. And the fact that Anya Taylor-Joy has become Queen's Gambit-famous in the interim has probably pushed a fair number of people to check the film out.
Because, just bluntly, neither Ma Rainey nor Mank seem like big-time contenders -- the former because its small cast limits the number of costumes involved (and most of them, too, are men's suits); the latter because black-and-white (yes, The Artist won the category -- but that was part of a best picture run, something no one sees for Mank). Either of them COULD win -- and, yeah, I guess I'd lean Mank of the two, on the Bugsy precedent. But, overall, I see Emma. as a slight favorite. (Though I haven't yet watched Mulan; watch that slide in and confound us all.)
Oddball Oscar trivia: people are talking about a rematch of Close/Colman this year -- but the rematch I note is the costumes for 1996 Emma (without a period, that time) vs. Ann Roth, who triumphed in the category with The English Patient.
You can argue (I would, anyway) that the subsequent expansion of best picture to ten, combined with the earlier nomination/presentation date, has made all categories more best picture-centric (the explanation for the high number of nominations for so many films last year). But, even in that system, Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them triumphed over La La Land; sheer volume and showiness of design mostly wins voters over.
I think the fact that this year offers a more relaxed deadline -- not only a later show, but a lengthier stretch between nominations and awards -- makes it more possible for a smaller/less-essential film to compete (especially since a lot of voters are still home-bound, looking for distraction). Emma. is hardly unseen to begin with -- it's been out for a year, and has been readily available for home viewing for some time. And the fact that Anya Taylor-Joy has become Queen's Gambit-famous in the interim has probably pushed a fair number of people to check the film out.
Because, just bluntly, neither Ma Rainey nor Mank seem like big-time contenders -- the former because its small cast limits the number of costumes involved (and most of them, too, are men's suits); the latter because black-and-white (yes, The Artist won the category -- but that was part of a best picture run, something no one sees for Mank). Either of them COULD win -- and, yeah, I guess I'd lean Mank of the two, on the Bugsy precedent. But, overall, I see Emma. as a slight favorite. (Though I haven't yet watched Mulan; watch that slide in and confound us all.)
Oddball Oscar trivia: people are talking about a rematch of Close/Colman this year -- but the rematch I note is the costumes for 1996 Emma (without a period, that time) vs. Ann Roth, who triumphed in the category with The English Patient.
Last edited by Mister Tee on Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
I don't know, I'm still kind of leaning towards Emma.
The problem with Mank is that, other than Seyfried, a lot of the costumes are men's suits. I thought this was part of what held Lincoln back in this category in 2012, and I think it may hurt Mank as well. Of course, it may not hurt it, and I think the Bugsy precedent is a not-bad one to look at, because it was also a lot of men in suits with one prominent female role. (I would say The Artist was a different case, because it was trying to do something very specific, and the costumes reflected that; also has any Best Picture winner of the past couple of decades just vanished from public consciousness the way it has?) Ma Rainey's Black Bottom is possible, but it doesn't really have that many costumes, and how widely-loved is it if it couldn't get nominated in Picture, or in a fairly weak Adapted Screenplay category? (Although I guess the idea that it isn't enough of an adaptation could've hurt it in the screenplay category. But this category has not cared about those details in the past.) I don't really see Mulan and Pinnochio having any shot. The Academy of a few years ago would vote Emma. easily. I don't have any doubt of that. The only real question for me is whether the new membership is going to have any effect on categories like this, and if they do have an effect, will it put Ma Rainey over the top, or would those voters throw their votes all over the place (which would mean they have no effect, essentially)? Last year, the more traditional choice of Little Women won over the more hip choice of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but Little Women also had plenty of cool points with Gerwig/Ronan, and this category was the place its fans knew it had the best shot at a win. I may end up changing my mind, but I can see a dozen movies like Emma. that have won this award in the past, and not very many like Mank or Ma Rainey. And a lot of times when the Emma.'s won, it happened in lineups, like this one, where you looked over the nominees and your first thought was, "something is not quite working in this category".
The problem with Mank is that, other than Seyfried, a lot of the costumes are men's suits. I thought this was part of what held Lincoln back in this category in 2012, and I think it may hurt Mank as well. Of course, it may not hurt it, and I think the Bugsy precedent is a not-bad one to look at, because it was also a lot of men in suits with one prominent female role. (I would say The Artist was a different case, because it was trying to do something very specific, and the costumes reflected that; also has any Best Picture winner of the past couple of decades just vanished from public consciousness the way it has?) Ma Rainey's Black Bottom is possible, but it doesn't really have that many costumes, and how widely-loved is it if it couldn't get nominated in Picture, or in a fairly weak Adapted Screenplay category? (Although I guess the idea that it isn't enough of an adaptation could've hurt it in the screenplay category. But this category has not cared about those details in the past.) I don't really see Mulan and Pinnochio having any shot. The Academy of a few years ago would vote Emma. easily. I don't have any doubt of that. The only real question for me is whether the new membership is going to have any effect on categories like this, and if they do have an effect, will it put Ma Rainey over the top, or would those voters throw their votes all over the place (which would mean they have no effect, essentially)? Last year, the more traditional choice of Little Women won over the more hip choice of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but Little Women also had plenty of cool points with Gerwig/Ronan, and this category was the place its fans knew it had the best shot at a win. I may end up changing my mind, but I can see a dozen movies like Emma. that have won this award in the past, and not very many like Mank or Ma Rainey. And a lot of times when the Emma.'s won, it happened in lineups, like this one, where you looked over the nominees and your first thought was, "something is not quite working in this category".
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Big Magilla
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
Initially I thought Emma would take it because they do love those 18th century costumes, but the umpteenth version of Jane Austin's classic story hasn't had the level of exposure that Ma Rainey and Mank have had, so it probably does come down to those two.
If they took into account Ann Roth and Trish Summerville's resumes, Roth would win hands down but yeah, but if they consider all the costumes at that dinner party plus all of Seyfried's costume changes in Mank vs. Roth's limited number of designs for the Rainey girls, Summerville will take it.
If they took into account Ann Roth and Trish Summerville's resumes, Roth would win hands down but yeah, but if they consider all the costumes at that dinner party plus all of Seyfried's costume changes in Mank vs. Roth's limited number of designs for the Rainey girls, Summerville will take it.
Re: Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
Like so many things about Mank, it's getting recognition for things that it seems like it has a lot of but it actually doesn't. Beyond the party scene, where are all the costumes? There is precedent for something like Mank winning, such as The Artist topping Hugo in 2011, a very silly victory. So, you could be right, especially if Mister Tee is correct and Mank is destined to get "The Bugsy One-Two."anonymous1980 wrote
But I think the race is down to Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and Mank. The former is designed by 89-year-old veteran former Oscar winner Ann Roth whose career definitely warrants a second Oscar. The latter is the only Best Picture nominee in the list. A few weeks ago, I think I would've leaned towards Ma Rainey but I think now I'm leaning towards Mank since it has more costumes (especially that costume party scene that's so prominently displayed in the posters and ads).
Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, on the other hand, has far more memorable costumes. Ann Roth is definitely being mentioned as deserving another Oscar but I don't get the same name recognition push that Ruth Carter got for Black Panther. Also, I have a hard time imagining Ma Rainey's Black Bottom picking up two or three Academy Awards when it seems so clearly like something Boseman wins for and nothing else.
You're probably right about Mank taking Best Costume Design but it's still so odd when it's clearly not the most costume design in the category by a country mile.
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anonymous1980
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Categories One-by-One: Costume Design
The nominees:
Emma.
Ma Rainey's Black Bottom
Mank
Mulan
Pinocchio
Mulan and Pinocchio are gunning for the #4 and #5 "happy just to be nominated" positions. I think Emma. could be a potential spoiler. It's a showy period piece with lots of pretty dresses designed by a former Costume Design Oscar winner, Alexandra Byrne.
But I think the race is down to Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and Mank. The former is designed by 89-year-old veteran former Oscar winner Ann Roth whose career definitely warrants a second Oscar. The latter is the only Best Picture nominee in the list. A few weeks ago, I think I would've leaned towards Ma Rainey but I think now I'm leaning towards Mank since it has more costumes (especially that costume party scene that's so prominently displayed in the posters and ads).
Emma.
Ma Rainey's Black Bottom
Mank
Mulan
Pinocchio
Mulan and Pinocchio are gunning for the #4 and #5 "happy just to be nominated" positions. I think Emma. could be a potential spoiler. It's a showy period piece with lots of pretty dresses designed by a former Costume Design Oscar winner, Alexandra Byrne.
But I think the race is down to Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and Mank. The former is designed by 89-year-old veteran former Oscar winner Ann Roth whose career definitely warrants a second Oscar. The latter is the only Best Picture nominee in the list. A few weeks ago, I think I would've leaned towards Ma Rainey but I think now I'm leaning towards Mank since it has more costumes (especially that costume party scene that's so prominently displayed in the posters and ads).