Categories One-by-One: Actress

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Okri » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:57 pm

Gotta love autocorrect.

I don't get why Nathaniel is so invested in that narrative, re: The Wife/Close. I could basically take or leave Close's career, but the stans are, as usual, annoying.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby dws1982 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:05 pm

Just in general. Nathaniel Rogers has been one of the more egregious Close partisans, and in particular was all over Twitter yesterday trying to ascribe bad motives to anyone who doesn't love The Wife and Close in it.

It's one reason why I almost hope that Colman doesn't win, even though she's my favorite of the nominees. (On another day, McCarthy might be my pick.) Some of the people who are so invested in Close not being denied this time will take their anger out on Colman and try to create a (false) impression that she only won because she was in a Best Picture nominee, that she was framed into the category, etc. I don't know that the backlash would take hold or follow Colman all that long, but I would hate to see them push a narrative so blatantly counterfactual.

I've been meaning to put my linguists for each category in these predictions threads. Here's my Actress longlist (with a dozen or so films left to see):
Olivia Colman, The Favourite
Lea Drucker, Custody
Elsie Fisher, Eighth Grade
Joanna Kulig, Cold War
Kiki Lane, If Beale Street Could Talk
Melissa McCarthy, Can You Ever Forgive Me?
Thomasin Harcourt McKenzie, Leave No Trace
Carey Mulligan, Wildlife
Julianne Nicholson, Who We Are Now
Julia Roberts, Ben Is Back
Emma Stone, The Favourite
Rachel Weisz, The Favourite

In general, I think the Oscars did pretty good with their Actress and Supporting Actress nominees (although a couple were placed in the wrong category, I think), and did much less well by their Actor and Supporting Actor nominees. (Although fair, Supporting Actor is kind of a wasteland for me outside of eight or so names.)

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Sabin » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:28 pm

dws1982 wrote
OscarsTwitter has become outright obnoxious about this. Not only are you not allowed to want someone other than Close to win, you aren't allowed to dislike The Wife without being sexist and ageist.

Is OscarsTwitter a handle or social media in general?
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby dws1982 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:35 pm

MaxWilder wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:Ah, but Glenn Close. She's not Lauren Bacall in a Barbra Streisand film. She's not Sylvester Stallone who can't play anything other than Rocky. She's not Richard Burton going through the motions in Equus. She's not Fred Astaire playing Fred Astaire without singing and dancing in The Towering Inferno.

She's Glenn Close in That Glenn Close Movie. I think she's going to win, but let's not pretend anyone cares about The Wife.

OscarsTwitter has become outright obnoxious about this. Not only are you not allowed to want someone other than Close to win, you aren't allowed to dislike The Wife without being sexist and ageist.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby MaxWilder » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:23 pm

Big Magilla wrote:Ah, but Glenn Close. She's not Lauren Bacall in a Barbra Streisand film. She's not Sylvester Stallone who can't play anything other than Rocky. She's not Richard Burton going through the motions in Equus. She's not Fred Astaire playing Fred Astaire without singing and dancing in The Towering Inferno.

She's Glenn Close in That Glenn Close Movie. I think she's going to win, but let's not pretend anyone cares about The Wife.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Reza » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:13 pm

Uri wrote:It striked me now - Page and Close actually went head to head 34 years ago, both losing to an old veteran - Peggy Ashcroft, alas, in that case they did lose to one of the greatest winning performances ever.


And both Page (The Pope of Greenwich Village) and Close (The Natural) were fillers in that category in a rather weak year for supporting actresses.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Reza » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:09 pm

Precious Doll wrote:This will more likely than not be Closes last chance of a competitive Oscar and I really have trouble seeing the Academy deny her.


Watch her return to the fold if Sunset Blvd comes to the screen which Close disclosed in a recent interview that she has been in serious talks with the screenwriter and a director of the project.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Uri » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:08 pm

It striked me now - Page and Close actually went head to head 34 years ago, both losing to an old veteran - Peggy Ashcroft, alas, in that case they did lose to one of the greatest winning performances ever.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Uri » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:34 am

If she wins, I'm sure that in 20 years, if anyone is still interested in the history of the Oscars at all, Close's performance will be canonized, the way Geraldine Page's in A Trip to Bountiful was even on this board when we revisited the best actress race of 1985. But in both cases (that is, if Close wins), it will be a case of a celebrated older actress winning solely for her past career at the expense of far better performances. Close is a very good actress - and probably a better film actress than Page - and she does give everything she have here, but, as we say in Israel (do they use this phrase elsewhere?), it's a going-full-gas-in-neutral kind of performance, meaning all guns blazing with nowhere to go.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:25 am

Mister Tee wrote: it didn’t register that way for me or the people in the industry l know. )


Ok but Mister Tee... it's not like you know everybody. But as you said, winning just on career points isn't easy and doesn't happen often, so IN CASE Glenn Close wins maybe you will even vaguely admit that she did so because of her performance too. But just vaguely.

Also, I agree with you that in case she wins it would be nice to see the vote totals. Let me say, though, thar you never asked for this when for example Crash won over Brokeback Mountain, when Jennifer Hudson won over, well, anyone, etc.

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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Precious Doll » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:56 am

Well at least this category has two performances worth voting for (Colman & McCarthy), which is more than I can say about the best actor lineup.

As Closes's film is so pedestrian and her performance nowhere near worthy of a nomination it seemed iffy until the televised award shows started dispelling any doubts that she would be nominated and win. So be honest, when she won the Globe, I thought we have a likely winner and the SAGs cemented it.

GaGa is officially over. McCarthy was never anywhere near the winners circle. Yalitza Aparcio is a seat filler. As far as the Academy goes Colman is the new girl on the block, hugely talented with plenty of time ahead of her to have another chance.

This will more likely than not be Closes last chance of a competitive Oscar and I really have trouble seeing the Academy deny her. She'll join other highly respected and talented thespians such as Al Pacino, Gary Oldman, Jeff Bridges (some may include Julianne Moore but I thought her performance was Oscar worthy) who win for their career and oversights of the past (in the case of Oldman a lot of worthy performances not even being nominated).

In hindsight its a shame Close didn't win for Dangerous Liaisons, which to date remains her greatest screen performance. Though I was thrilled with Jodie Fosters win and still think she was the most deserving of one of the best ever Best Actress lineups, Foster would go on for another win a few years later. Had it played out that way, it would be to Colman the virtual lock for a win and another actress rather than Glenn Close in The Wife in the lineup.
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Re: Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Big Magilla » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:28 am

On performance alone, I'd give it to McCarthy who aside from her supporting role in St. Vincent never impressed me. She's astonishing in Can You Ever Forgive Me?. Why the film flopped and why Fox and Fox Searchlight didn't do more to promote it is criminal.

Olivia Colman is part of an ensemble and only nominally the lead in The Favourite because that's the way the promotional cookie crumbled in her favor. In support, she'd be a slamdunk.

For Yalitza Aparcio, the nomination is the reward. For Lady Gaga, it's I don't know what, a welcome to the club, better luck next time if there is a next time kind of a thing, I suppose. She's going to win best song, which she will perform, so her fans will get to see her cry on stage again, anyway.

Ah, but Glenn Close. She's not Lauren Bacall in a Barbra Streisand film. She's not Sylvester Stallone who can't play anything other than Rocky. She's not Richard Burton going through the motions in Equus. She's not Fred Astaire playing Fred Astaire without singing and dancing in The Towering Inferno. She's fucking Glenn Close who gave one great performance after another on stage, screen and TV with a few turkeys along the way for four decades and she doesn't have an Oscar!

Last year's Crooked House, was one of those turkeys, laying claim to being the worst Agatha Christie adaptations ever released on the big screen, but in The Wife, she's riveting once again. She's back in prime condition on the big screen after more recent triumphs on Broadway and TV. It's as if her 80s successes led directly to this one without any of those turkeys in-between.

Let's remember that while they got it wrong about Astaire in 1974 - he wasn't the sentimental favorite everyone thought he was that year. Ingrid Bergman, who unexpectedly won her third Oscar for Murder on the Orient Express was. Close is this year's Bergman, not Astaire.

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Categories One-by-One: Actress

Postby Mister Tee » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:34 pm

There are many who think this category is done-and-done, but let’s say a few words about it anyway:

The nominees:

Yalitza Aparicio (ROMA)
Glenn Close (THE WIFE)
Olivia Colman (THE FAVOURITE)
Lady Gaga (A STAR IS BORN)
Melissa McCarthy (CAN YOU EVER FORGIVE ME?)

Aparicio is the definition of “happy to be here”.

Lady Gaga clearly suffers from her film’s post-Christmas precursor crash, but I doubt she’d have been in for the win regardless. Oscar has nominated singers-turned-actresses over the years, but Cher is the only one ever to win – and that was on her second nomination, with a thwarted effort at another for Mask in between. (Don’t throw Streisand at me: she was an actress-singer from the start, with two Tony nominations prior to her film debut.) Gaga’s reward for this movie was always likely to be the best song Oscar and no more.

Her film’s commercial belly-flop is the only explanation I have for Melissa McCarthy’s failure to compete more seriously. Even some of the steely-eyed critics here have labeled her the best of the crew. I suspect this will set her up for a more profitable awards run to come…but that’s a subject for Who’ll Be Back? up ahead.

The contest – which some of us think exists and some don’t – is between Globe/BAFTA/critics’ winner Olivia Colman and Glenn “did you know this is her 7th nomination without a win?” Close.

One of those Brutally Honest Ballot folk said “I’m voting for Glenn Close for Dangerous Liaisons” – which made me laugh because, years ago, I remember Rex Reed inventing an imaginary voter who was voting for “Fred Astaire for Swing Time”…the year he was actually nominated for The Towering Inferno. Astaire, for those who don’t have Oscar history at their fingertips, ended up unexpectedly losing that award, to Robert DeNiro in Godfather II. It seems ludicrous now, but Oscar predictors were unanimous in predicting Astaire for career achievement.

On the same basis, most predicted Richard Burton in Equus…Lauren Bacall in The Mirror Has Two Faces…Sylvester Stallone in Creed. Losers all. And you know what the connecting thread was? Each was expected to win on career points alone; there was no critical groundswell for the particular performance, and no awards enthusiasm for the film being represented.

Not to say it’s an impossible climb. Jack Palance in City Slickers is an example of such a career moment that did snag the award. But it’s fallen short more often than it’s paid off.

NOTE: If your argument is, yes, but Close’s performance IS such a career highlight – 1) it didn’t show itself in critics’ award mentions and 2) it didn’t register that way for me or the people in the industry l know. I feel like, the people who are thinking about the performance are voting for Olivia Colman, and the people who are thinking of the career reward and the acceptance speech are going with Glenn Close.

So…we’ll see if the latter’s scenario comes to fruition. as so many are predicting (in fact, are saying it’s a dead-solid lock). I imagine Close pulls it out – but I say it’s a closer race than many seem to think, and a Colman upset wouldn’t surprise me. (Of course, unless Close loses, there’ll be no telling how much of a race it was. Pity. I’d love to see the vote totals here.)


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