SAG Predictions

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taki15
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by taki15 »

WTF? I just presented my opinion about BP's quality in comparison to other comic book movies and asked a question about how many other movies were nominated for best picture while being shunned in every other important category. How can any of this be construed as an attack to you?

And anyway, I didn't miss the point at all (more condescension). I understood perfectly well what they were going for. But noble intentions don't make the plot any less nonsensical, the CGI less bad, or some of the performances less bland. IMHO, "Black Panther" is a good movie, as good as the other MCU origin stories, like 'Thor" or "Ant-Man". But for some reason you didn't see the critics and guilds showering those films with praise and awards.
I respect the fact that this movie became a cultural phenomenon in the US but it is no coincidence that the response was much less enthusiastic in the rest of the world.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by OscarGuy »

Come now, Taki, I only returned the tone and tenor of your response to me. Come down off that cross, Jesus. Someone needs the wood.

As to Black Panther, I think you may have completely missed the point of what was being done. Clear-cut black-and-white good-vs-evil was not the intention. It's that villainy is not a clear-cut line that nobility and purpose can have varying shades of gray. Killmonger is meant to have noble aims, it's how he goes about seizing power and attempting to destroy what has been built that makes him the villain of the piece.

Your Roma comment is likely meant to suggest that somehow I'm in lock-step with the critical constabulary, that I follow the herd in every opinion I form. On the contrary: I hate Avengers: Infinity War because it's all a cheat. A two-hour set-up for a predictable outcome in the next film. Critics gave it some of the best ratings it's ever had. I think Roma is overrated, another rather unpopular opinion in the critical community. I find the Coens overrated. I disliked the new live-action Spider-Man, preferring the Andrew Garfield version (the second one sucked, though). I don't think Meryl Streep can do no wrong. There are countless times where I've disagreed with my fellow critics.

If you meant something else, then perhaps you need to be more clear in your snarky rejoinders.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by taki15 »

HarryGoldfarb wrote:
taki15 wrote: "Black Panther" wasn't even the second best comic book movie of the years.
In the Oscars it was nominated for Best Picture but not for director, screenplay, acting, cinematography, or editing. I wonder how many movies had that "distinction" in the last 50 years?
At least one: Selma.
One in 50 years. So I guess that proves my point.
OscarGuy wrote:Selma had 2 nominations. Black Panther has 7.

And what does not having other nominations matter a hill of beans when the argument was about the quality of the ensemble being undeserving because there weren't any nominated actors in it. The two are unrelated thoughts.

And, Taki, I don't know what other superhero movies you felt were better, but Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse was the only one that I could even see an argument for and I consider them both the best of the year for different reasons. If you're referring to the godawful Avengers: Infinity War, then that says all it has to about your taste in movies.


Wow! The condescension is stunning. And yes, I think "Infinity War" was a much better film than "Black Panther". At least its plot made sense and it was clear who was the hero and who was the villain during the final fight.
I guess if I say that I liked "Roma" too then my movie taste will be rehabilitated in your eyes or is my crime so egregious that I don't deserve forgiveness?
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Re: SAG Predictions

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The Original BJ wrote:
Reza wrote:And the reason why there is so little pushback by others on this board is because they all prefer waiting for you to get your sensitive little soul into a tizzy and come up with your bitchy remarks. It makes for good repetitious drama allowing you to shine :lol:
Not true. Many of us just do not have the time or patience in our lives to constantly be explaining to you why using phrases like the "race card" and "the usual black ghetto avatar" are deeply offensive.

And you can gripe about how "Americans are overly sensitive about everything" and refer to flipp's remarks as "bitchy" in an attempt to evade dealing with the actual criticism of your own comments all you want, but no, we are not being sensitive, or bitchy. We are criticizing your racism. If you don't want that, stop making comments like this.
The "bitchy" comment itself is pretty much a clue-by-four to how obliviously bigoted Reza can be. The people who gripe most about political correctness are simply upset that they can no longer be openly racist, sexist, or homophobic anymore. It's Paula Deen's defense of "N" word. Casual racism and racism based on the culture in which you grew up are still racist even if that's how you were raised.

Knowing the world today and what's going on and still being flippant about racism, being dismissive about calls to be better stewards of our own behavior and actively being offensive to "poke those liberals in the eye" is immature behavior.

Hell, I could point to three major films this year alone that don't put forth this all-encompassing "ghetto avatar" you're speaking of. The vast array of performances in Black Panther, BlacKkKlansman, and If Beale Street Could Talk alone disprove your intentionally offensive remark.
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Re: SAG Predictions

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Selma had 2 nominations. Black Panther has 7.

And what does not having other nominations matter a hill of beans when the argument was about the quality of the ensemble being undeserving because there weren't any nominated actors in it. The two are unrelated thoughts.

And, Taki, I don't know what other superhero movies you felt were better, but Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse was the only one that I could even see an argument for and I consider them both the best of the year for different reasons. If you're referring to the godawful Avengers: Infinity War, then that says all it has to about your taste in movies.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by HarryGoldfarb »

taki15 wrote: "Black Panther" wasn't even the second best comic book movie of the years.
In the Oscars it was nominated for Best Picture but not for director, screenplay, acting, cinematography, or editing. I wonder how many movies had that "distinction" in the last 50 years?
At least one: Selma.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by The Original BJ »

Reza wrote:And the reason why there is so little pushback by others on this board is because they all prefer waiting for you to get your sensitive little soul into a tizzy and come up with your bitchy remarks. It makes for good repetitious drama allowing you to shine :lol:
Not true. Many of us just do not have the time or patience in our lives to constantly be explaining to you why using phrases like the "race card" and "the usual black ghetto avatar" are deeply offensive.

And you can gripe about how "Americans are overly sensitive about everything" and refer to flipp's remarks as "bitchy" in an attempt to evade dealing with the actual criticism of your own comments all you want, but no, we are not being sensitive, or bitchy. We are criticizing your racism. If you don't want that, stop making comments like this.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by nightwingnova »

The entire cast performs as artisans - admirably individually and collectively. Not in many movies do you find this kind of work, and done so deeply and intricately. I'd go with If Beale Street Could Talk first...but, Black Panther earns this award.

taki15 wrote:So none of "Black Panther"'s actors were deemed worthy of a nomination, but the movie wins Best Ensemble?
How the hell can anyone explain this other than that it's a blatantly political decision?
Gosh, I never liked much that film but I'm now starting to hate it.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by nightwingnova »

It's as you've said, it's not been a terribly exciting (and, thus, competitive) year for film.

As of now (still working my way through Roma), here is where I feel invested in any of the major races:

Film: First Reformed (which is not even nominated)
Director: (not done yet with Roma to be able to say)
Screenplay (either): First Reformed
Actor: Ethan Hawke for First Reformed (not nominated) and Christian Bale for Vice
Actress: don't feel strongly about anyone
Featured Actor: Richard E. Grant for Can You Ever Forgive Me?
Featured Actress: Regina King for If Beale Street Could Talk, Olivia Colman for The Favourite, and Pam Ferris in a great performance of comedic depth and sublimity in Holmes and Watson as Queen Victoria.

Coming to a consensus is easy when there isn't much debate within the choices.

Mister Tee wrote:I'd thought getting past the Broadcasters with the acting races still blurry meant we had a good shot at a competitive year, but the urge to create a tide still seems strong, and SAG did about as much as they could to drain suspense.

In the Ensemble category, they could have put some life into either A Star is Born or BlackkKlansman. Bypassing both in favor of Black Panther amounted to taking a pass on the best picture race.

If Cooper wasn't going to win, picking either Bale or Malek would have leaned the Oscar race in their direction, so you can't exactly blame them for ruining that contest. Malek is I'd say a soft favorite, with BAFTA holding the reins: a Malek repeat would make him close to unstopppable, but a Bale victory would give us something near a toss-up.

Close was the one winner tonight not advantaged by a high-grossing film. I wish I could, like BJ, manage to be happy for Close, when I've admired her for so long. But performance counts for something, and I find her performance so undistinguished that her run just underlines for me the power of the Internet crowd to set the Oscar agenda almost independent of the actual achievement under consideration. As I said in my prediction, it's possible Colman will win on her home court at BAFTA, but that would still leave Close the heavy favorite. Or BAFTA may just decide, Fuck it, and jump on the bandwagon.

The same could be said about Ali. He's potentially vulnerable at BAFTA to local boy Grant. But Green Book is a best picture nominee there -- while Can You Ever Forgive Me? is not -- so maybe they'll just make it another incomprehensible sweep. Because that's what we do nowadays: get in line.

The one crazy-ass move -- picking Blunt -- was actually in line with the rest: favoring a box-office smash and doing everything possible to help create a front-runner. In this case, the front-runner, King, was not available for a vote, but her next best case was for whoever won in her place to have no hope at the Oscars. Not being a nominee is the surest way to ensure that. Now, as noted in my predictions, and as Sabin registers below, almost this exact same thing happened in 2015, with non-nominee Elba winning SAG, and the lucky break we thought it was for Stallone didn't play out as expected. So, let's wait and see what BAFTA does. But I'd guess Regina King was the big winner tonight.

The big loser? Anyone like me, who wanted a fun race. Chances are dwindling.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by Reza »

flipp525 wrote:
Reza wrote:It's a given she is the best of those nominated this year - Amy Adams, despite her slew of past nods, is nowhere in the same league as King - plus King has the added factor of being an African-American in the race. She will win hands down for her great performance. The race card, which is a big guilt factor today in American culture, IS an additional push that will help her to the win. Just as Mahershala Ali will win for playing an "articulate" African-American character which is very unique to the way black characters are usually portrayed on the American screen. He also has the added factor of playing a gay character. All the right buttons are being pushed by both actors in this race.
Speaking of buttons, do you ever actually read through your posts before pressing the submit button? I’m continually amazed by them as well as how little pushback is offered up by other people on this Board. The sheer audacity of saying that Mahershala Ali will win because he’s playing an “articulate black man.” I mean, really? Maybe he’s winning awards because his performance is really good and he finds moment of dignity and grace in his character. He just won two years ago - it’s not like he is overdue or playing up the “I’m the only black guy in this category” card. Your reasoning is absurd.

This entire post is so reductive; it feels like it was written in the year 1994.
Sheer audacity? Dude the man is playing a black character not seen on the screen since Poitier's days so it seems different and fresh. Unlike the usual ghetto avatar taken by most films today about black characters. And yes, the performance is very good as well.

And speaking of being reductive. That's the American sensibility nowadays of being overly sensitive about everything which is getting to be a bloody bore.

And the reason why there is so little pushback by others on this board is because they all prefer waiting for you to get your sensitive little soul into a tizzy and come up with your bitchy remarks. It makes for good repetitious drama allowing you to shine :lol:
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by Reza »

FilmFan720 wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:
OscarGuy wrote:It's the same gripe Tripp has about Reza's posts.

Let's not conflate personal dislike for something and a consensus choice not matching our own tastes.
Phillip (or Flipp), not Tripp (FilmFan).
Magilla, thanks for differentiating that. However, I will add my endorsement to flipp's comments. The blatant racism in people calling our racism is getting a little ridiculous around here.
Sorry but its true. Unfortunately that's how the world views you guys now even moreso than before.
Last edited by Reza on Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by FilmFan720 »

Big Magilla wrote:
OscarGuy wrote:It's the same gripe Tripp has about Reza's posts.

Let's not conflate personal dislike for something and a consensus choice not matching our own tastes.
Phillip (or Flipp), not Tripp (FilmFan).
Magilla, thanks for differentiating that. However, I will add my endorsement to flipp's comments. The blatant racism in people calling our racism is getting a little ridiculous around here.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by Big Magilla »

Jefforey Smith wrote:
Precious Doll wrote: And Close is going to win for her career and not her performance.
Funny how things change quickly. Going into Golden Globes, Lady Gaga was a consensus Best Actress pick according to sources I consulted. Then Close wins at the Globes & suddenly her momentum skyrockets -- buoyed more from last night's SAG win.

Are Lady Gaga & Colman still on the radar? Assuming Close prevails will it indeed be for her body of work & not for her performance in The Wife? (Do you think Academy members vote based on body of work or performance specific to the nominated film?)
To be fair, a lot of peopIe liked Close's performance very much, but not too many cared for the film in which she gave it.

I don't think anyone wins on popularity alone, but it certainly helps to break ties, especially in close races.
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by taki15 »

OscarGuy wrote:Taki, that's a bit reductive. An ensemble isn't one or two actors, it's the entire cast. So what if one of them wasn't worthy of singling out, the entire cast was strong and I could make a case for Forrest Whitaker and Angela Bassett being prime candidates for nominations, as could I also make a case for Danai Gurira and Michael B. Jordan. Just because they couldn't make it through in heavily-populated categories does not mean the ensemble wasn't a worthy winner.

Does everything have to be a political decision these days? I find more and more people who seem to think that something winning is clearly a political choice or a politically correct choice. Perhaps sometimes, the win is deserved? I guarantee you there were people dismissing Moonlight's win as a politically correct choice over the more popular La La Land. That does not make it so. It's the same gripe Tripp has about Reza's posts.

Let's not conflate personal dislike for something and a consensus choice not matching our own tastes.
"Black Panther" wasn't even the second best comic book movie of the years.
In the Oscars it was nominated for Best Picture but not for director, screenplay, acting, cinematography, or editing. I wonder how many movies had that "distinction" in the last 50 years?
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Re: SAG Predictions

Post by Jefforey Smith »

Precious Doll wrote: And Close is going to win for her career and not her performance.
Funny how things change quickly. Going into Golden Globes, Lady Gaga was a consensus Best Actress pick according to sources I consulted. Then Close wins at the Globes & suddenly her momentum skyrockets -- buoyed more from last night's SAG win.

Are Lady Gaga & Colman still on the radar? Assuming Close prevails will it indeed be for her body of work & not for her performance in The Wife? (Do you think Academy members vote based on body of work or performance specific to the nominated film?)
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