BAFTA Nominations

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criddic3
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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby criddic3 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:57 am

ITALIANO wrote:
Sabin wrote:He explores race.


which exactly explains why you are American and I am European.


Isn't this mainly a reality of where we are born, rather than state-of-mind? Granted, there is definitely a difference in culture but ultimately an actor's output should be judged by results rather than by the individual's background. Sidney Poitier isn't a legend in acting only because he is black, but because he memorably explored racial tensions of his time through his performances. If he was not a good actor, his performances would not be remembered so well. He would simply be a footnote as a black actor during the Civil Rights era. I think it does a disservice to both the actor and the viewer to focus only on the racial aspect. Obviously, how audiences react to any actor has a subjective element to it but I think Denzel Washington has earned some level of respect for the work he has done. I don't think he has been popular in America because he is black but because he has been successful in reaching his audience, which is diverse and has followed him for many years.
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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby Uri » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:37 am

Reza wrote:
Uri wrote:Washington is so guarded, so constantly conscious of serving the image of a Grand Thespian as well as inducing and promoting Black Empowerment, whatever acting talent he might have is totally overshadowed.


He has taken on the mantle of Sidney Poitier. Not by choice, I'm sure, but more as a sense of duty. Black entertainers in Hollywood need it and most, if not all, have "allowed" him that privilege. And he does have talent but I agree he does appear to be guarded in his choice of work.


It's not only being guarded in his choice of work - this I can even sympathize with - it's about being guarded in his actual work, a kiss of death for an actor. And while Poitier, impressive as he was,was a more limited actor than Washington, he most definitely never came across as smug the way come-see-how-great-I-am-Washington does in his performances, which is another deal breaker for me.

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby Reza » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:10 am

Uri wrote:Washington is so guarded, so constantly conscious of serving the image of a Grand Thespian as well as inducing and promoting Black Empowerment, whatever acting talent he might have is totally overshadowed.


He has taken on the mantle of Sidney Poitier. Not by choice, I'm sure, but more as a sense of duty. Black entertainers in Hollywood need it and most, if not all, have "allowed" him that privilege. And he does have talent but I agree he does appear to be guarded in his choice of work.

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby Uri » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:43 am

Washington is so guarded, so constantly conscious of serving the image of a Grand Thespian as well as inducing and promoting Black Empowerment, whatever acting talent he might have is totally overshadowed.

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:48 pm

Sabin wrote:
Italiano wrote
Three words, Sabin, which exactly explains why you are American and I am European. No, Sabin, he doesn't EXPLORE race. His movies often deals with the theme of race, true. But they don't explore it.

Yes, I'll agree to that. That's definitely how they turn out.


Good that we agree on something :)

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby Sabin » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:31 pm

Italiano wrote
Three words, Sabin, which exactly explains why you are American and I am European. No, Sabin, he doesn't EXPLORE race. His movies often deals with the theme of race, true. But they don't explore it.

Yes, I'll agree to that. That's definitely how they turn out. I should've said "deal with" instead of "explore." Not sure if that invalidates the rest of my point, but you do you.
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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:13 am

Big Magilla wrote: Ironically, he has more nominations and awards from the Hollywood Foreign Press Association than AMPAS. The Globes nominated him eight times, gave him two acting wins and their Cecil B. DeMille award for life achievement.


Yeah, but the Hollywood Foreign Press Association honestly is more American than, say, the New York Film Critics... In spirit and mentality if not in passport.

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby Big Magilla » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:31 am

ITALIANO wrote:He's chosen by producers and directors to appear in their movies - and the ones he accepts to do are often more on the commercial side than truly thought provoking. (I haven't seen those he has directed). But he's a big star - admittedly rare for a black person, in the US ot anywhere else - and this is confused with being talented by many.


I consider Denzel Washington a good to very good actor. He doesn't have the historical weight of a Sidney Poitier or the acting gravitas of a Morgan Freeman or James Earl Jones, but he is good. While he does make more throwaway action films he does meaningful films, it is worth noting that five of the eight theatrical and TV films he has personally produced are in the latter category. Ironically, he has more nominations and awards from the Hollywood Foreign Press Association than AMPAS. The Globes nominated him eight times, gave him two acting wins and their Cecil B. DeMille award for life achievement.

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:16 am

Sabin wrote:He explores race.



Three words, Sabin, which exactly explains why you are American and I am European. No, Sabin, he doesn't EXPLORE race. His movies often deals with the theme of race, true. But they don't explore it. Most of the times - Malcolm X may be an exception - it's all so light, so American-friendly, without any depth. And, of course, the fact that he's black means - in the context of American cinema - that he MUST deal with race in his movies - but, again, this is because of America, not because of any revolutionary personal approach from him.

And finally, he's an actor. He's chosen by producers and directors to appear in their movies - and the ones he accepts to do are often more on the commercial side than truly thought provoking. (I haven't seen those he has directed). But he's a big star - admittedly rare for a black person, in the US ot anywhere else - and this is confused with being talented by many.

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby Sabin » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:42 pm

Italiano wrote
But it's not like Denzel Washington isn't considered a good actor because he's black - we don't care about that. Actually when I read a post from a certain woman in another Oscar blog praying to God that such a wonderful thespian is also nominated as Best Director for Fences, well, I wonder - isn't it possible that all this praise in the US is partly due to the fact that he IS black?

I assume you're talking about praise for his acting and not directing. Ironically, Denzel's second movie, The Great Debaters, scored a Best Picture nomination for the Hollywood Foreign Press and Fences didn't.

"Is it possible all this praise in the US is partly due to the fact that Denzel Washington is black?" No, it's not because he's black. It's because he's successfully juggled commercial projects and artistic projects for thirty years. But all of his artistic projects explore race.

In an age where movie stars don't have the power that they used to, he has proven himself capable of opening a Hollywood motion picture time and time again. In fact, he's probably the only movie star who headlines ZERO franchises who can do that (Tom Cruise has Mission Impossible, Matt Damon has Jason Bourne, etc). And what does Denzel Washington do with his star power? He explores race. He either directs projects that explore race, or he collaborates with directors on projects that explore race. And he's done this for thirty years. He's about to receive his seventh Academy award for Fences. His other six nominations were for Cry Freedom, Glory, Malcom X, The Hurricane, Training Day, and Flight. Six of those seven explicitly dealt with race (Flight being the outlier). I think it's because he chooses very strong roles in largely racially-charged, high-profile films that are a very good fit for his skill-set.

I think saying that Denzel Washington gets the praise he gets partly because he's black is one way of looking at it. I think he's earned everyone's respect for doing something that is very difficult.
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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:41 pm

Reza wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:Of course he IS famous even here, and some of his movies have been successful at the box office (though, I guess, a bit less here than in the US). What I meant is that he's not taken seriously as an ACTOR - not many consider him to be a great or even good performer. Talent and fame aren't necessarily connected.


I'm curious to know which black actor is taken "seriously" as an ACTOR in Italy or Europe?


Morgan Freeman. Absolutely. He may have appeared in more dreadful movies than Denzel Washington, but as an actor he's much respected.

But it's not like Denzel Washington isn't considered a good actor because he's black - we don't care about that. Actually when I read a post from a certain woman in another Oscar blog praying to God that such a wonderful thespian is also nominated as Best Director for Fences, well, I wonder - isn't it possible that all this praise in the US is partly due to the fact that he IS black?[/quote]

That usually is the case in the United States. Everybody is so sensitive not to step on toes.....which they invariably always do in any case. It's easily the most racist country in the world. Has been always.[/quote]


I don't know if it's the most racist country in the world - but there's so much that is wrong in the way it deals with racism... For example, after last year's emotional blackmail - not only from black people but also from whites suffering from guilty feeling - it's obvious that this year there will be LOTS of blacks nominated in the major categories, and probably more than one winner. I just hope that they will all be deserving.

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby Reza » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:27 am

ITALIANO wrote:Of course he IS famous even here, and some of his movies have been successful at the box office (though, I guess, a bit less here than in the US). What I meant is that he's not taken seriously as an ACTOR - not many consider him to be a great or even good performer. Talent and fame aren't necessarily connected.


I'm curious to know which black actor is taken "seriously" as an ACTOR in Italy or Europe?[/quote]

Morgan Freeman. Absolutely. He may have appeared in more dreadful movies than Denzel Washington, but as an actor he's much respected.

But it's not like Denzel Washington isn't considered a good actor because he's black - we don't care about that. Actually when I read a post from a certain woman in another Oscar blog praying to God that such a wonderful thespian is also nominated as Best Director for Fences, well, I wonder - isn't it possible that all this praise in the US is partly due to the fact that he IS black?[/quote]

That usually is the case in the United States. Everybody is so sensitive not to step on toes.....which they invariably always do in any case. It's easily the most racist country in the world. Has been always.

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:56 am

Reza wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:
criddic3 wrote:
This saddens me a little. Denzel Washington has long been one of my favorite actors. It is surprising that he is not taken seriously outside the U.S. His 45 films have grossed a combined $2,371,557,106 domestically (more than $3 billion worldwide) since 1981.


Of course he IS famous even here, and some of his movies have been successful at the box office (though, I guess, a bit less here than in the US). What I meant is that he's not taken seriously as an ACTOR - not many consider him to be a great or even good performer. Talent and fame aren't necessarily connected.


I'm curious to know which black actor is taken "seriously" as an ACTOR in Italy or Europe?


Morgan Freeman. Absolutely. He may have appeared in more dreadful movies than Denzel Washington, but as an actor he's much respected.

But it's not like Denzel Washington isn't considered a good actor because he's black - we don't care about that. Actually when I read a post from a certain woman in another Oscar blog praying to God that such a wonderful thespian is also nominated as Best Director for Fences, well, I wonder - isn't it possible that all this praise in the US is partly due to the fact that he IS black?

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby Reza » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:46 am

ITALIANO wrote:
criddic3 wrote:
This saddens me a little. Denzel Washington has long been one of my favorite actors. It is surprising that he is not taken seriously outside the U.S. His 45 films have grossed a combined $2,371,557,106 domestically (more than $3 billion worldwide) since 1981.


Of course he IS famous even here, and some of his movies have been successful at the box office (though, I guess, a bit less here than in the US). What I meant is that he's not taken seriously as an ACTOR - not many consider him to be a great or even good performer. Talent and fame aren't necessarily connected.


I'm curious to know which black actor is taken "seriously" as an ACTOR in Italy or Europe?

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Re: BAFTA Nominations

Postby criddic3 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:03 am

I find him to be one of the more charismatic actors in movies. I think of his work in the charming The Preacher's Wife (1996) or his slightly homophobic yet redemptive role in Philadelphia (1993). He was quite powerful I thought in Courage Under Fire (1996) and in Flight (2012), among others. And he's good at playing villains, too. It is hard to compare him to Sidney Poitier because Poitier was a pioneer in a way that Washington really couldn't be, but I think that's similar to people who compare Tom Hanks to Jimmy Stewart. The everyman image fits, but Stewart is a legend in a different way than Hanks is.
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